PVP Pirating in Yembo
- Thread starter Space Pirate
- Start date
But is that really so different to running off with goods? My Asp has cost me something like Cr30M and has very little cargo space - why shouldn't I demand money to cover my costs?
Can't say I'm too happy about the SC solution, the PvE/P slider instead of completely different modes, but they've always said that if you commit crimes (pirating/murder) against players you will be locked on the slider, so you can't escape to pve world and pay off your bounties in safety. Not perfect but better. You say it's a core concept, but there's a reason why no other game has done it, also a reason why no one comes to think doing research on the subject before buying ED. If I'd known it I'd never bought the game. Why is it a core concept to put two completely different communities that loath each other in the same jar?
The system is so easily exploited that it practically forces you to do it, which leads to the situation where you need to have an honorable "rp" mindset like the op has to play by the rules that are forced in every other game and expected but not forced in ED (=moral guidelines hardly guide the immoral). And the sad part is that those honorable players are punished by this system the most. And the only ones who win are those dishonorable exploiters who psycho kill in open and go make up for the losses in solo (most efficient way to make credits and get pvp), and those carebears who combat log pvp and completely ruin the experience for the other party, and for me the worst villains, those who grind a big ship in solo and does "occasional pvp" in open... I've yet to see one good reason, one good argument why non-PvP players need access to the PvP server/side of the game (and vice versa), it simply doesn't make any sense.
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That would be the last nail in the coffin for trading in open play.
We already have example how it would be: EVE online.
Pirates in EVE is quite efficient way, but we have goldsellers/slavers/"hello kitty world of protection racket" and immense amount of grind for both slaves and slavers in other hand.
There is no way to made happy both sides, at some point the game transformed into the competition. Sad but true. FD have to decide wich side will be biased.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
If a moderately outfitted T9 with 5M Cr. of cargo was encountered, the insurance excess and cargo would amount to c. 10M Cr.. Currently, a hold full of commodities at c. 12,500/t for the pirate would equate to a c.2.5M loss for the trader. If in-space player-to-player credit transactions were implemented, the difference in demand would, in all probability, be quite significant - would the extortionist in this scenario settle for less than 50% of the sum that the trader stands to lose in the event of ship loss? That's 5M Cr. in credits against 2.5M Cr. worth (for 200t dropped) of cargo that would sell on the black market for 1.25M Cr.. Combined with no risk in trying to dock to sell the booty, this provides more advantages for the pirate.
OP I have some advice if you want it I would normally leave it to you but the bounty-hunters have come out of the wordwork recently-
If you're in an asp vs vipers just leave, they can't stop you.
If you are in a dangerous situation you just escaped from, drop supercruise immediately upon entering it, pick a system at random and jump out.
Get good at interdictions, entering wakes is a pain in the backside for pirates and bounty hunters alike you are more likely to get interdicted than anything else, always win = they can't get you, but remember if you are going to lose submit - boost - jump.
If you see a clipper you think is setup for hunting in the area you're gonna have to leave unless you are pretty decent as a combat asp, this is because its the only ship with the combination of mass locking + faster speed (plus more firepower), it used to be the python in this role but they are too slow now.
Thats about it for generic tips! On the topic of the clipper I suspect it will come under the ever sweeping gaze of "balance" as it is now the tallest nail with the python hammered, if any traders are reading this a clipper is the safest ship atm get one and you shall never be pirated again!
If you're in an asp vs vipers just leave, they can't stop you.
If you are in a dangerous situation you just escaped from, drop supercruise immediately upon entering it, pick a system at random and jump out.
Get good at interdictions, entering wakes is a pain in the backside for pirates and bounty hunters alike you are more likely to get interdicted than anything else, always win = they can't get you, but remember if you are going to lose submit - boost - jump.
If you see a clipper you think is setup for hunting in the area you're gonna have to leave unless you are pretty decent as a combat asp, this is because its the only ship with the combination of mass locking + faster speed (plus more firepower), it used to be the python in this role but they are too slow now.
Thats about it for generic tips! On the topic of the clipper I suspect it will come under the ever sweeping gaze of "balance" as it is now the tallest nail with the python hammered, if any traders are reading this a clipper is the safest ship atm get one and you shall never be pirated again!
as a trader i am more than happy that piracy didnt pay off for you. i love openplay, interacting with other players but i condemn pirates; whenever i have time i slip in one of my combat vessles and kill them.
I play in open. I swear that I will never, ever combat log, but with the caveat that something in RL may force me to log whilst I just happen to be in combat. However, the chances of that happening are tiny. So, for all the people playing open, I will never, ever combat log. Why would I play in open if I was just going to hide from players?
To be fair, I only needed this to happen to me once to learn the lesson. I understand this frustrates people (as it frustrates me).
Which is exactly what I am doing now, but you missed my point: this fragments the player base. Sure, Mobius is getting large, but that's not the point. When not in Open Play, it is rare to see other players and forcing people to create/join groups is only going to exacerbate the situation. Would you not prefer to see a more people on the game? The first time I actually saw another human in Mobius was in Yembo yesterday, and I've been in the group for a long while already.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's also nothing stopping players in the Mobius group from engaging in PvP should they desire - is it "policed"?
It's "easy" to avoid NPC interdiction. And when they do succeed, usually its easy to just run away. The NPC just despawns and they don't pursue.
By my post, I only meant to point out a reason why people would do this. Rather than try to stop people from doing something (combat logging) it would be preferable to simply make the "why" go away (ie, remove the reason why people do it).
While I see your point, this carries side-effects. Playing solo or in group will stop people from playing with their friends who would want to PvP or play in other groups.
For example, assume two player friends, one is mining the other is hunting pirates. Both go into a RES. The Bounty Hunter is willing to hunt human pirates but the miner doesn't want to run that risk. How do you propose these 2 players solve this? Currently the only option is for both to play separately. Having a voluntary PvP flag would allow both to play at the same time though.
Other MMO games solve this community split by either providing separate PvP and PvE servers or making a single server but disallowing PvP action from/towards you optional.
Why? Because it's possible. And I agree, let's take the possibility away.
I'm at work, so not enough time to address your whole message, but let me just answer this part. True, there's no other game with a system like that... currently. There is however a game in production - Shroud of the Avatar - that uses the exact same system. Take a look at it (if you haven't before) and be sure to check who makes it - it's some of the biggest names in gaming. I can bet you this kind of mode switching will catch on and we'll see more and more games like that in the future.
Don't even get me started on ship balance and gameplay balance.
The pvp/pve eco system does not exist. The pvp balance does not exist. the pve balance does not exist.
Coupled with combat logging, station logging, solo>open open>solo (I do it so i can repair in peace, than switch back to open to kill randomly killing) is just insane in this "MMORPG"
Here is a pvp balance example.
If my ship is travelling at 430m/s and is the fastest ship in the game. How can anyone ever kill me or catch me? They cant. So i can just kill 100's of players and they have no recourse or chance to beat me. They might stave of my attack, but they can never, ever finish me. Pro-balance! And i mean, Elite's weapons only reach out to 1500 meters in this game, anything beyond that is useless. It takes 4 seconds to get out of weapon range...
I think ideally the bounties applied for piracy were relatively large relative to the rewards. In this way, players would effectively be incentivised to remain wanted and live the life of a roving desperado (never remaining long in one place, chewing tobacco in the rain, staring into the middle distance, etc.). This would be preferable - and possibly more immersive - than a life of continuous slate-cleaning. Additionally, with many more wanted players, it might engender a more interesting trader/pirate/bounty hunter ecosystem.
I realise in the current build it may already be difficult enough to subsist as a pirate, but in the long run I think encouraging players to remain wanted could be a change for the better.
I thought the idea behind ED was to create a credible future universe, where space-travel is possible (at least within the galaxy)? I for my part can't image that you won't be able to transfer money to other entities in such a universe, and I can't imagine there wouldn't be any bad guys trying to mug, rob, kill you in the dark corners of that universe. When you plan your route to somewhere, you would have to be careful which route you take, if you go through anarchy systems, or systems with little to no police-presence, of course there would be more crime. Wouldn't it be fun if players could work together to stabilize such systems? Initially bounty hunters and other "security forces" could come in and try to keep the system safer, missions to help expand the infrastructure (getting stations built and have one faction move into them and provide police). On the other hand maybe other systems where due to lack of trade the system gets poorer and can't afford that much police anymore?
Or was the idea to create a carebear-universe where you can safely live and don't have to worry about danger? Maybe weapons should be disabled against other players then, or maybe all the pirate-NPCs should be removed all together along with all the weapons, and everyone can live happily ever after, exploring the galaxy, and running trade routes?
I remember from the original Elite how you had to be careful not to travel to systems that were too dangerous, rather maybe take the long way... I don't know why people here expect they can just take the shortest route, fly through anarchy systems, which are known to have more criminal elements, and then still act surprised when they get attacked. Just doesn't make sense. I for one love the thrill of seeing other people in system, not knowing whether they will come for me or not, or having to wonder whether I can safely make it to my destination by the route I have chosen.
Or was the idea to create a carebear-universe where you can safely live and don't have to worry about danger? Maybe weapons should be disabled against other players then, or maybe all the pirate-NPCs should be removed all together along with all the weapons, and everyone can live happily ever after, exploring the galaxy, and running trade routes?
I remember from the original Elite how you had to be careful not to travel to systems that were too dangerous, rather maybe take the long way... I don't know why people here expect they can just take the shortest route, fly through anarchy systems, which are known to have more criminal elements, and then still act surprised when they get attacked. Just doesn't make sense. I for one love the thrill of seeing other people in system, not knowing whether they will come for me or not, or having to wonder whether I can safely make it to my destination by the route I have chosen.
The fact that pirate stations in Anarchy systems do not pay full price for stolen goods they have a demand for (ie metals in an industrial economy) is one of the biggest oversights and pointless limits of piracy income
OP, it's the nature of the beast I'm afraid.
FD have gone above and beyond in giving the players every possible way to play the game they want to play it, this includes going in open play and combat logging if they feel threatened. In FD eyes, if the player wants to play that way they can. It's sad really, as this goes against all other multiplayer experiences in pretty much every other online game. It's not bad to go against the grain, but if you do, then you better make sure the way you are going is just as solid as other experiences if not vastly better, which is just not the case right now.
To be honest, I can't really see how FD are going to fix these types of situations without changing something drastic in the game.
We just have to be content with a pretend multiplayer mode for ED for now, if not, forever. Hopefully FD will pull the proverbial rabbit from the hat and fix it all some how. But my faith with FD is at an all time low, so I'm far to cynical to believe they will do anything at all to truly solve the issues you highlight.
FD have gone above and beyond in giving the players every possible way to play the game they want to play it, this includes going in open play and combat logging if they feel threatened. In FD eyes, if the player wants to play that way they can. It's sad really, as this goes against all other multiplayer experiences in pretty much every other online game. It's not bad to go against the grain, but if you do, then you better make sure the way you are going is just as solid as other experiences if not vastly better, which is just not the case right now.
To be honest, I can't really see how FD are going to fix these types of situations without changing something drastic in the game.
We just have to be content with a pretend multiplayer mode for ED for now, if not, forever. Hopefully FD will pull the proverbial rabbit from the hat and fix it all some how. But my faith with FD is at an all time low, so I'm far to cynical to believe they will do anything at all to truly solve the issues you highlight.
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Snakebite
Banned
I've been playing Bounty since the begining, I pretty much I think that I know what I am doing but in two months of playing NOT ONCE have I sucessfully interdicted a human pirate that was wanted and had a bounty to claim.
I'm not one to throw my teddy out of the window and say i'm quitting but Thursday is my game night but doubt that I'll be loggin in to ED this evening i'm just plain fed up chasing ghosts.