Getting EXTREMELY frustrated with a certain interdiction exploit

[Negative Entropy]

OP, I feel your pain but if they are not using hacks to bypass the FSD cooldown timer, then this is not an exploit.
At most there is a balancing issue for FD to consider regarding the length of the cooldown and the cost to the interdicted when not submitting and failing to evade.

I know I would play the interdiction mini-game more (when trading) if submitting and boost/jumping out were not so much more advantageous than risking repair damage immediately+more damage due to being shot at during extra cooldown.

When not trading of course, I always submit but only because I am ready to fight.

 

[ianw]

That's assuming that there is nobody out there who likes the risk of being interdicted by pirates.
And you know what they say about assuming... it just makes an a** out of u and me.
People ARE able to choose their interactions in open. If you get interdicted, you do the minigame to fight the interdiction, or you submit and fight/flee.
But submitting shouldn't be a "get out of trouble free" card.
It shouldn't be an automatic escape.

There are people out there that like the risk - I'm one of them - but then I'm not exclusively a "trader".

I guess we have to see how FD "fix" the mechanic - I don't envy them that task...

 

[Oddball_E8]

As long as there's no mechanic that punishes or outlaws pirates enough, there's never going to be a balance, thus it will always feel unfair. When I was trading I always had overhead moneywise in case of pirating, cause you need to be aware of it. But now when there's 1000 pirates all around the two or three hot rare locations, and no mechanic that makes it sensible to defend against them or hunt them down, you'll get complaints and bad attitudes.

OP: ing and moaning because someone runs away is just pathetic, nobody's forced you to be a pirate. It's fine wanting changes, but you have to play the game for what it is _now_.

There's plenty of mechanics.
A: They get bounties on them, and there are plenty of bounty hunters out there.
B: They get damage if you fight back, which is costly.
C: They can't sell stolen goods at any old station, they have to do it in black markets.
D: It's not NEARLY as profitable as trading, so it's not a "fast lane" to riches in any way.
E: It's one of the most hated professions in the game.
F: Even if they get killed, they still have to pay off their bounties before respawning.

Now, what more punshment do you need?

 

[Gogster]

What does that have to do with anything?

It is an exploit.
An exploit used by both traders AND pirates, I might add!
As a bounty hunter, this has even made me sell my FSD interdictor and completely ignore that part of the gameplay because 9 times out of 10 the pirate will just submit, boost and then jump away before I can even put a dent in his shields.
And then I'm stuck there because MY FSD isn't on a shorter cooldown even though I'm the one who interdicted him in the first place.

"It is an exploit" - no it isn't.

Get a bigger ship, get plasma, change your game. Why should the entire game change just because you can't pirate?

 

[Joe Spivey]

Interdiction should be an invitation to interaction. Forcing interaction, of any kind, PvP comms or whatever, reduces the choice of one of the players to play the way they want at that moment in time. Yes, I know it is open world but even so, any kind of interaction should not be forced on one player by another. To say that you automatically consent is just hiding behind a shield of convention. What matters is how an individual wants to be involved in the game at that moment. So, again, invitation not enforcement.

You're just trying to turn this into argumentum ad absurdum. You message me, the I decide if I want to respond. I either accept or reject your invitation. You interdict me, I decide whether I want any interaction with you. The interdiction is the invitation, now I get to decide whether I want to submit, play pew pew or just leave. YOU do not get to decide how I spend the next few minutes of MY game time.

Then play solo or a private group.

Open play IS including PvP.
Don't want to PvP? Don't play Open.

I was about to begin with "You've missed my point..." but you haven't, have you? You've understood perfectly what I've been saying. You just don't have a reasonable argument to come back with so you've fallen back on the very thing I've been decrying. Once more then. Yes, open play has PvP... but it should not be up to the aggressor to decide how his target has to spend the next few minutes of HIS play time. It should be up to the target to decide if he wants to interact in any way, or just to leave and carry on playing HIS game how he wants.

However, I doubt FD will agree with my view, but I'm sure they are aware that there a considerable number of people who have come to their game because they want the choice in how they play. ED does go a long way towards fulfilling this but I'm sure many players would like them to take that extra step and put the target in the driving seat when deciding on PvP combat.

 

[Master-Windoo]

Geez pirates are a bunch of whiners, what do you want them to do, you are a pirate, of course they run! If they log out, pirate whines, if they run pirate whines, they make to much money... more pirate whining, my ship isn't good enough... more pirate whining, they nerfed my ship... pirate whining.

Hahaha, forums have to love them!

 

[Covert]

Had to go check that one but I stand corrected! Have some rep sir...

This is a very interesting argument, and I have to say, displays what a massive headache this must be for Frontier, as both sides have valid arguments to some extent. Ultimately though, player piracy is an intended gameplay mechanic, wether you like that or not.

The FSD cool down probably needs a tweak when submitting, but not so great that the player has no chance of escape, so a good pirate will have a chance. Currently, they have no chance at all of catching you if you've chosen to boost rather than fight, so you have put control of the interaction squarely in the hands of the trader.

In defense of the traders, we really need some high security space. Piracy in low security space should be huge risk for traders, whereas 'safe' space such as high population wealthy systems, should be massively risky to carry out illegal activity in. Right now quite the opposite exists...

 

[InMemoriamSirocco]

I think the risk vs reward mechanic during interdictions needs a look-over.

Currently, there is no incentive for me to even play the interdiction minigame at all. Why would I?

The few times I tried, everything went fine until my blue bar was almost filled and the red bar was all but disappeared. Then suddenly the escape vector slips right behind me and there is no way in hell I am making that turn before my I get interdicted.

So I take damage and have to wait a long time for my FSD to cool down. I can still run, but I take additional damage if my attacker can keep up with me.

If I submit, on the other hand, I not only prevent my ship from taking damage, but my FSD recharges quickly enough for me to minimize damage before I can escape again.

Why would anyone try to play the interdiction minigame, then? Chances are that your attacker has bought the best FSD interdictor available, and it is obviously pointless to fight those. One day I even managed to hold my focus ON THE SPOT, entirely on the escape vector the whole frakking time, and guess what happened? I watched the red bar gradually fill up until my FSD cut out.

Currently, I see no point in playing the interdiction minigame. It's a shame, really... it require skill and should be really rewarding, but it isn't. If you try to play it, you only put your ship at risk. You minimize risk by submitting. Thus, an entire mechanic that took hours and hours of coding to put into the game gets competely circumvented.

Nobody plays it. Why would we? There's no reward in it for us, only risk. We can escape much easier if we submit. Less risk, higher chance of survival.

I think this needs some working on. Because it surely doesn't work as intended.

 

[OamodSias]

It is an exploit..

LOL!
Yes, because developers love putting in messages when you use an exploit in their game, right?

*chuckles* Oh the lies people tells themselves to justify their positions.


View attachment 15062

 

[OldSalt]

There's plenty of mechanics.
A: They get bounties on them, and there are plenty of bounty hunters out there.
B: They get damage if you fight back, which is costly.
C: They can't sell stolen goods at any old station, they have to do it in black markets.
D: It's not NEARLY as profitable as trading, so it's not a "fast lane" to riches in any way.
E: It's one of the most hated professions in the game.
F: Even if they get killed, they still have to pay off their bounties before respawning.

Now, what more punshment do you need?

Surely those are all the factors anyone considering pirating takes into account before going down that career path ? As for ships jumping out after submitting what is the OP asking for, interdiction creates a mini arena in which the target is struck so fights to the death or ponies up cargo (and gambles on being killed for lulz anyway) ? Escape is a primary defence and for that matter I have seen well known pirates advocate it on these boards as an obvious tactic if outmatched. All part of the mix as I see it.

 

[Scoob]

Silly question... are people saying that a ship that submits can re-enter SC right away, or much quicker than usual? That doesn't seem right. I remember boosting and dodging as best I could avoiding incoming fire from a pirate while I waited for my Type 6's FSD to cool down after a safe exit. Seemed like ages, but I suspect not more than 30 seconds or so. Considering my shields go down after a couple of seconds exposed to even a C1 beam...well, that was a long 30 seconds or so.

Does 4 pips to ENG make any difference to FSD cooldown? I divert 4 pips to ENG and 2 to SYS when fleeing.

Scoob.

 

[MeetYourMaker]

I was about to begin with "You've missed my point..." but you haven't, have you? You've understood perfectly what I've been saying. You just don't have a reasonable argument to come back with so you've fallen back on the very thing I've been decrying. Once more then. Yes, open play has PvP... but it should not be up to the aggressor to decide how his target has to spend the next few minutes of HIS play time. It should be up to the target to decide if he wants to interact in any way, or just to leave and carry on playing HIS game how he wants.

However, I doubt FD will agree with my view, but I'm sure they are aware that there a considerable number of people who have come to their game because they want the choice in how they play. ED does go a long way towards fulfilling this but I'm sure many players would like them to take that extra step and put the target in the driving seat when deciding on PvP combat.

I just can't get my head around this, you say that you play an online game, but you should personally be able to decide what happens to you in it 100% of the time?
When you play monopoly with your family do you 'roll the dice again' when you land on your brothers hotel and just tell him that YOU will decide how you will be spending that next few minutes?

When you are playing with other people, you do not get to choose my friend, you somtimes win and you somtimes lose. You do not get to decide that nothing bad will ever happen to you.

Do yourself a favour and play solo, just like all the other truck simulators that 'do not want to be disturbed' should do imo.

 

[jarinalepetiot]

Go in solo for trader safer

 

[Oddball_E8]

"It is an exploit" - no it isn't.

Get a bigger ship, get plasma, change your game. Why should the entire game change just because you can't pirate?

So a 155 ton trader shouldn't be able to be pirated by a 180 ton combat ship?
Sounds fair.

Should he need an anaconda to pirate the 2nd smallest trader in the game then?
Or maby a capital ship?

"Get a bigger ship" is the dumbest argument I've heard.

How would anyone start out in piracy then?
Apparantly, by your logic, nobody should be able to pirate in a sidewinder, eagle, viper or cobra then.
Well, maby if they go after nothing but haulers.

But it would take ALOT of time to grind for an asp if you could only pirate haulers.

Of course, you and alot of other traders out there despise pirates so much that you don't care if it's fair or not. You want them punished in any way possible.
Preferably so much so that there would simply be no piracy in the game because it simply wouldn't be profitable in any way.

And THAT is certainly "forcing others to play the game your way" which so many traders keep shouting that you shouldn't when they get interdicted.

They hypocracy on these forums is astounding sometimes.

 

[Heracles]

Apologies for the flame-war-ey title, but I've grown increasingly annoyed over the past few days and I need to vent. I even created a forum account to post.

So I'm a pirate operating in Yembo. It's a tough, poorly paying career fraught with danger and risk (I suppose that's the price for player interaction and good gameplay...).

However, more and more lately, CMDRs (always in type 6s for some reason) have been SUBMITTING to my interdiction, and then IMMEDIATELY supercruising away, bypassing the usual interdiction FSD cooldown and making them virtually impossible to do more than a few points of hull damage to.

Just now, I interdicted the same commander 3 times. The first time, they submitted, and I told them to cut their engines. They didn't respond, merely charged their FSD. I attacked them in response, but failed to get their shields down.

I immediately followed them to supercruise, and had to follow them for 400LS before I could catch up and interdict again. Once more, they submitted, and once more, they immediately boosted away and charged their FSD. This time, I opened fire immediately, managing to do 10-20% damage before they jumped again.

Once more I followed, once more I interdicted, and yup you guessed it once more they submitted. This was only 20Mm from the station so I didn't even bother with the warning, blasting at their shields immediately. I had just managed to get them down again before they vanished.

I even followed them to the damn station, but was too late, they slid through the docking port just as I got in range. I proceeded to camp outside the station with thrusters off and temp at 27% to hide my wanted status for a good 5-10 mins, but they either retreated back to Solo or logged off for the night.

Needless to say, I am extremely annoyed and tired of the fact that "submitting" to interdiction lets you leave almost as soon as you arrive. I know many of you will say "get gud" or "get a faster/masslocking ship" but I don't want to grind to play at pirate whilst losing money. Ever since my first million credits, I have only pirated. It should be a career not an expensive hobby.

But I digress. My Cobra is nearly the fastest ship with weapons possible (455m/s boost speed) and heavily armed. Should it really be impossible for me to pose any threat to a weaponless mid-tier trader? (whose ship, btw, likely costs far less than my 3mil). All while making more money in one trip than I do in an evening!

PLEASE Frontier, do something about this ridiculous exploit. And traders who play in open: please don't use it! If you don't want to face pirates, that's fine, just don't trade in the most populated system in the game in Open mode!

This is a joke, is it not?

Please FD help me be a better thief

Your humour has me laughing out loud.

No human space trading commander would "voluntarily" "willingly" and "easily" submit to an interdiction from a pirate. By definition your are a criminal as a pirate! So hands off my Laudinum

That's why I trade in an armed ship. Want my cargo? I will fight you, to the death, if that's what it takes. "Death before dishonor". Much more fun that way! If traders don't like to fight, perhaps they are a pacifist from Pluto, (I started in an unarmed trading ship) then good luck to them and "warp speed" to their engines!

Good game

 

[Oddball_E8]

Surely those are all the factors anyone considering pirating takes into account before going down that career path ? As for ships jumping out after submitting what is the OP asking for, interdiction creates a mini arena in which the target is struck so fights to the death or ponies up cargo (and gambles on being killed for lulz anyway) ? Escape is a primary defence and for that matter I have seen well known pirates advocate it on these boards as an obvious tactic if outmatched. All part of the mix as I see it.

I never claimed anything else.

I was quoting a post that said there weren't enough negative effects of being a pirate.
I listed quite a few.

And nobody has said that ships shouldn't be able to escape.
But they shouldn't be able to reliably escape in such a short time that it's actually impossible to bring down their shields.

 

[Jukelo]

How is this an exploit when it was designed that way?

It wasn't. FD clearly said, using submission to escape faster is a unintended and unwanted use of the mechanics, and will be fixed.

 

[OamodSias]

This is a very interesting argument, and I have to say, displays what a massive headache this must be for Frontier, as both sides have valid arguments to some extent. Ultimately though, player piracy is an intended gameplay mechanic, wether you like that or not.

Piracy is a valid career; it's not easy either.
Submission is a valid tactic against pirates.

With respect I strongly disagree, the other side does not have a valid argument. Their career is pirating. Mine is trading. They are built for offence, I am built for defence. My ONLY advantage in that fight is a faster cooldown on FSD through submission. I've easily had my shields taken out even after submission.

Why must my chances of survival be diminished because of a few pirates who couldn't be bothered a) with a challenge and b) to upgrade their ship? If the OP had better weapons, he'd have likely been able to kill his target or wound enough to release some cargo; if he'd had limpet he'd have been able to forcefully grab some cargo. Op bit off more than he could chew, simple as that.

No; the game mechanic and everything around it works just fine. The OP and everyone crying about this, just needs to learn to play better. I have my way to avoid losing MY hard-earned credits; they need to find a way to overcome that and asking for things to be made easier for them, is not the way to go about it.

 

[Oddball_E8]

This is a joke, is it not?

Please FD help me be a better thief

Your humour has me laughing out loud.

No human space trading commander would "voluntarily" "willingly" and "easily" submit to an interdiction from a pirate. By definition your are a criminal as a pirate! So hands off my Laudinum

That's why I trade in an armed ship. Want my cargo? I will fight you, to the death, if that's what it takes. "Death before dishonor". Much more fun that way! If traders don't like to fight, perhaps they are a pacifist from Pluto, (I started in an unarmed trading ship) then good luck to them and "warp speed" to their engines!

Good game

Actually, that's kinda the point he's making.

If you submit, there's no point in having a well armed ship. Because you can jump away from the interdictor faster than he could possibly bring down your shields.

 

[matunaga]

To ask for this nerv is about as clever as a trader asking for bigger cargo racks on his cobra just because he's to lazy to work for a ship that would meet his needs. OP, you ask fd to compensate for your failings. But your tears are welcome. To think you even made a forum toon just to vent how butthurt you are - priceless!