It just isn't.

[Gavski]

Clearly you've never played Elite before. Supercruise is FD's alternative to space travel. In other words they've got rid of space travel.

Space travel is what made Elite and FE2 / FFE such great games, yet FD have ditched it entirely, in favour of "supercruise".
Elite and FE2 / FFE had interdictions and piracy, in spaceflight, in a way that ED just so does not.
It just doesn't.
I 'fly' in ED without weapons or shields. You think that'd fly in any 'Elite' worth its name? Nooo. Nuh-huh. Nope.
It just wouldn't.
You seriously believe what you're doing in ED is fun, i mean really, truly, exhilarating fun?
Sorry dude but you've no idea...


It just isn't.

Wow, looks like you get a real kick-out of playing. Not sure how anyone can fly without weapons/shields - I get attacked regularly by NPCs and would be dead many times over every game.

Anyway - ED has the same space travel as Elite (hyperspace between systems) but then uses FSD instead of the original's "Jump" (space travel within systems).
It's all space travel - just different distances and speeds; nothing has changed from Elite/E2/FE, just one-part of the travel mechanic (and that started with FE2, so there is a direct connection to ED).

You were interdicted in Elite, but only when travelling/jumping towards a station/star (other than Witch Space during hyperspace). What is different to being interdicted in FSD?

 

[OnePercent]

But what really ruins it, apart from the extending phases of player inactivity and resulting boredom, is that supercruise is dissociated from 'normal' space, and thus the game and flight experience proper. It's a sub-game - a gruelingly protracted one at that - that takes you out of the game and into finger-drumming limbo. It doesn't even enable orbits, slingshots.

I can achieve more realistic space flight by going to bed, pulling the duvet over my head and singing the imagination song.

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If we had speed, yes. But at <500m/s that's one epic voyage of nothing doing. You'd get there quicker paused. If there was a pause, which there isn't.

You must realise that in a multiplayer environment going really fast in normal space is unfeasable.

Gameplay purposes is 1 thing. Technical purposes is another.

Your computer is able to track you flying really fast in normal space, but a server tracking hundreds of thousands of players? yeah it's not gonna happen, Thats why FD made supercruise, it's why everything is instanced.

 

[MrVibrating]

Don't be so patronising. Make an actual argument instead of throwing out this light-weight nonsense. Try explaining what is actually different in terms of user experience between supercruise and the time dilation of FE2/FFE. Try explaining how such a mechanic could be made to work in a multiplayer environment.

I've been perfectly succinct. Elite is the quintessential archetypal prime embodiment and ultimate epitome of a single player game. Elite has Asperger's syndrome. It's intrinsically, inherently and inextricably sociopathic. MP kills it. Rips the very soul out of it.

If FD couldn't work out how to do a proper MP Frontier sequel they should've left out MP, or left the project on the back-burner until they'd solved the hurdles. Instead they've ditched all the good stuff in favour of MP. They made the wrong call, gave in to boneheaded populism and killed the legacy... baby and bathwater straight out the 9th floor window, blood-splattered rubber ducks on the sidewalk.

And it was time acceleration, not "dilation" - that's a relativistic effect, and a particularly cool one at that, which we'll ALSO never see in-game, thanks to the comparitively worthless MP restrictions. We've lost so much, to gain so little...

 

[Gavski]

MP kills it. Rips the very soul out of it.

Nah, as an original Elite player I don't buy that at all. I'm excited by the possibilities of MP going-forward.

 

[MrVibrating]

You must realise that in a multiplayer environment going really fast in normal space is unfeasable.

Gameplay purposes is 1 thing. Technical purposes is another.

Your computer is able to track you flying really fast in normal space, but a server tracking hundreds of thousands of players? yeah it's not gonna happen, Thats why FD made supercruise, it's why everything is instanced.

All answered ad-nauseum already in the Newton threads.. It IS possible, and preferable, for both gameplay and networking purposes. Speed is relative to arbitrarily-selectable reference frames, hence ships could handle exactly as they do in ED without having to screech to a halt first. Position becomes more accurately predictable with speed, not less. And it's P2P MP, not server-based.

 

[xondk]

Not while Supercruise is this boring.

An 84'er, Elite ranking, Thargoids, keyboard only, floppy disc, waited 30 years blah blah blah.
Alpha backer, couldn't wait, so excited, losing sleep etc etc etc...

Supercruise is a complete game killer though isn't it? Bored bored bored.
Everyone here seems to have just accepted it. Yes it somehow mirrors reality and yes it is "a good game mechanic" but christ it's bloody awful.

I know I'm not going to change anybodies mind here but I really can't get into this game until SC is gone.

Gutted really, even bought a new PC for this but as someone with limited game time I just can't be bothered.

Ok could you perhaps then in detail describe what you want it to be instead, you know, travelling between planets and whatnot?
Personally I think Supercruise is just fine, it takes time to get from place to place, space is big beyond imagining, even going the speeds we are in supercruise.
What is it that is wrong with supercruise? what is it you want it to be to not be boring? And please if you feel no need to explain yourself or such, please stop then, because just stating something without explaining it and suggesting alternatives, like so many seem to do is just.....at best childish "I dun like it" 'why?' "I DUN LIKE IT!"

 

[Phier]

Supercuise isn't boring, sadly Elite is boring. Supercruise could be quiet interesting. Imagine "gravity traps" that would pull you out into a multi-ship ambush.

 

[Dbrn47]

Just let me jump to other stars in a system so I don't have to be in supercruise for 300k+ Ls and I'll be fine.

 

[xondk]

They could just let us hyperspace to the other binary star and...you know? Solve the problem?

So wait, this is about "It takes too long to get to the place where I can find the BEST possible trade items in the game, and earn the MOST possible profit per ton from trading" that..is what it is about? because that is the ONLY thing I can think of that would force you to take a long time flying, unless you are an explorer, at which point I doubt you'd complain, unless I guess, you want to find more stuff faster and earn more money faster that way.

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Just let me jump to other stars in a system so I don't have to be in supercruise for 300k+ Ls and I'll be fine.

See above.

 

[RedWizzard]

But what really ruins it, apart from the extending phases of player inactivity and resulting boredom, is that supercruise is dissociated from 'normal' space, and thus the game and flight experience proper. It's a sub-game - a gruelingly protracted one at that - that takes you out of the game and into finger-drumming limbo. It doesn't even enable orbits, slingshots.

Supercruise is a phase of the journey from station to station in the same way that landing is. Personally I don't feel that it takes me out of the game in any way. It's certainly less jarring than hyperspace.

It sounds like you're not happy with the flight model in supercruise. That's fair enough, and I don't entirely disagree. I'm not sure orbits and slingshots should be possible during what is effectively superluminal travel but it would be cool to be able to do those sorts of maneuvers. Anyway that's a slightly different argument.

 

[RedWizzard]

And it was time acceleration, not "dilation" - that's a relativistic effect, and a particularly cool one at that, which we'll ALSO never see in-game, thanks to the comparitively worthless MP restrictions. We've lost so much, to gain so little...

One observer (you) sees time pass at a different rate than another observer (an NPC). That is exactly what time dilation is. Just because it's not caused by relativistic speeds doesn't change anything.

Anyway it's pretty clear the game is not for you. What you wanted is obviously very different from what the developers wanted. Tragic as that is, you can always play FFE.

 

[xondk]

But what really ruins it, apart from the extending phases of player inactivity and resulting boredom, is that supercruise is dissociated from 'normal' space, and thus the game and flight experience proper. It's a sub-game - a gruelingly protracted one at that - that takes you out of the game and into finger-drumming limbo. It doesn't even enable orbits, slingshots.

Dissociated from normal space? huh? just have to ask, when you are travelling at a mimum of 30km/s with the fsd active, you want people not using it (and are travelling between 0-400) m/s to still be able to see people? while I understand why that might be 'cool' it would seem utterly pointless, even at slowest speed they would pass you so fast they would be but a streak of light that you might see, so I fail to understand how when you are going at supercruise speeds, how it could possibly be made 'connected' to normal space or even what you mean by this?

Edit: doesn't enable orbits? huh? if you want to orbit, orbit? you control the ship, you decide if you want to orbit, as for slingshots, that's not how fsd works from my understanding since it modifies gravity actually getting a gravity boost from a nearby planet wouldn't really work.

 

[MrVibrating]

Wow, looks like you get a real kick-out of playing. Not sure how anyone can fly without weapons/shields - I get attacked regularly by NPCs and would be dead many times over every game.

Anyway - ED has the same space travel as Elite (hyperspace between systems) but then uses FSD instead of the original's "Jump" (space travel within systems).
It's all space travel - just different distances and speeds; nothing has changed from Elite/E2/FE, just one-part of the travel mechanic (and that started with FE2, so there is a direct connection to ED).

You were interdicted in Elite, but only when travelling/jumping towards a station/star (other than Witch Space during hyperspace). What is different to being interdicted in FSD?

You flew, and were interdicted, in 'real' space - only Thargoids could interdict you in Witchspace. In either case, you HAD to fight. And a lot - usually hordes per journey. In ED combat's optional, hence why i don't bother. Shield space is better used for cargo.

In FE2 you had autopilot, external views, 3D system maps.. stuff to do while travelling. You could orbit, slingshot, or just hit max Stardreamer and have done with it. Bish bash bosh, trade, debrief, retask, refit and refurbish and be launching again in less time than it takes to fly halfway across a system in ED. It was a sim, with arcade pacing. ED lacks either designation. You could play FE2 at ED's pace if you wanted to... or even slower (real-time), but you didn't have to. You determined the pace and played at your leisure, whereas in ED you can only play at its 'leisurely' pace.

If this just seems like semantics to you then i'd question how much value you found in FE2..

 

[AuGuR]

3 modes of transport, each with a use.

FSD Jump : System to system travel, via wormhole/space folding.
FSD Super cruise : In system, planet to planet. More like "warp speed" but you can turn smoothly.
Normal "Flight" : Anything that's not the above, human reactions at faster speeds would cause red jelly all over the stations.

OP, if supercuise is a game-breaker for you, and you expect it to go away... it's been nice knowing you. Not saying that with a lack of understanding or anything of the like. With no supercruise, the chances of you interacting with anyone would be slim. The galaxy would seem smaller, and you miss out on seeing the stars (fictionally and procedural created, mind you). Truth is, you can't have the rest stops without the interstate/autobahn/etc.

 

[Dbrn47]

So wait, this is about "It takes too long to get to the place where I can find the BEST possible trade items in the game, and earn the MOST possible profit per ton from trading" that..is what it is about? because that is the ONLY thing I can think of that would force you to take a long time flying, unless you are an explorer, at which point I doubt you'd complain, unless I guess, you want to find more stuff faster and earn more money faster that way.

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See above.

Less to do about making money and more about the fact I don't want to spend 20 minutes flying to any destination. If I can go into supercruise, get up, make a cup of coffee, a sandwich, use the restroom and shave, that's boring gameplay.

 

[xondk]

You flew, and were interdicted, in 'real' space - only Thargoids could interdict you in Witchspace. In either case, you HAD to fight. And a lot - usually hordes per journey. In ED combat's optional, hence why i don't bother. Shield space is better used for cargo.

In FE2 you had autopilot, external views, 3D system maps.. stuff to do while travelling. You could orbit, slingshot, or just hit max Stardreamer and have done with it. Bish bash bosh, trade, debrief, retask, refit and refurbish and be launching again in less time than it takes to fly halfway across a system in ED. It was a sim, with arcade pacing. ED lacks either designation. You could play FE2 at ED's pace if you wanted to... or even slower (real-time), but you didn't have to. You determined the pace and played at your leisure, whereas in ED you can only play at its 'leisurely'[/i] pace.

If this just seems like semantics to you then i'd question how much value you found in FE2..

I want to point something out to you that you seem to be entirely skipping, those were singleplayer games. And one of the massive differences between those and multiplayer, is meeting other players. There are other people then you in the game, if there is to be ANY sort of interaction there needs to be a certain pace, if everyone could and I quote: "Bish bash bosh, trade, debrief, retask, refit and refurbish and be launching again in less time than it takes to fly halfway across a system in ED." then how would any sort of other player have ANY chance of catching you? hell almost even just typing a text to you, saying hi before you'd be gone? Because that is all the difference I see that there would be from increased speed? Could you perhaps tell me some others? and explain how it would improve the game to speed up?

I understand that you want to determine your pace, but yeah that's not how elite dangerous is made, but lets say they made it so you could get to those far off stations in what 1 min? get it, go to the best selling distance and sell them in like I don't know 5 minutes? maybe 10? would that make you happy? is that what you want? a game where you can earn those millions of golds so fast so you can get whatever you want yesterday?

 

[MrVibrating]

One observer (you) sees time pass at a different rate than another observer (an NPC). That is exactly what time dilation is. Just because it's not caused by relativistic speeds doesn't change anything.

Anyway it's pretty clear the game is not for you. What you wanted is obviously very different from what the developers wanted. Tragic as that is, you can always play FFE.

Eh? You said FE2 had time dilation, and i corrected you - it was time acceleration, not dilation.

And if ED really featured dilation our clocks would diverge. Instead it instates the blasphemy of 'universal time', regardless of all other considerations such as relative acceleration deltas, gravity densities and local planetary day lengths. It's a woeful missed opportunity for the procedural sides of things, because timeframes for long-distance explorers would diverge by eons from short-haul players.

And if ED isn't for me then why do i play? Why do i still have a BBC Master, 68060 A1200 and boxed originals of the previous games (including the cassette version)? If ED's not for me then who is it for?

It's not personal ideals i'm defending here but those of Elite itself. If my expectations seem unreasonably high, thank DB.

 

[xondk]

Less to do about making money and more about the fact I don't want to spend 20 minutes flying to any destination. If I can go into supercruise, get up, make a cup of coffee, a sandwich, use the restroom and shave, that's boring gameplay.

Well, if you want to trade rare carpets from a remote place in lets say china, you do need to go get them, and it will take time because well yeah, they are rare, they are hard to get, you have options if you do not want to fly for 20 minutes in one direction, you can pick find a non rare route to trade....but yeah...you don't earn as much money on that...so again it seems to return to money? I just cannot see how it isn't about money, if I want the bounty from an anaconda, I need to fight and kill it, if you want the profit from rares you need to get there and get them?
And again other then trading what situation forces you to fly so long?

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And if ED isn't for me then why do i play? Why do i still have a BBC Master, 68060 A1200 and boxed originals of the previous games (including the cassette version)? If ED's not for me then who is it for?

It's not personal ideals i'm defending here but those of Elite itself. If my expectations seem unreasonably high, thank DB.

Just want to point out that just because you liked old versions of a game, does not mean you will like new versions of it, just you know, saying, and you make it sound as if Elite Dangerous, this game, is not for you, because you sound very very unhappy with it.

 

[Dbrn47]

Well, if you want to trade rare carpets from a remote place in lets say china, you do need to go get them, and it will take time because well yeah, they are rare, they are hard to get, you have options if you do not want to fly for 20 minutes in one direction, you can pick find a non rare route to trade....but yeah...you don't earn as much money on that...so again it seems to return to money? I just cannot see how it isn't about money, if I want the bounty from an anaconda, I need to fight and kill it, if you want the profit from rares you need to get there and get them?
And again other then trading what situation forces you to fly so long?

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Just want to point out that just because you liked old versions of a game, does not mean you will like new versions of it, just you know, saying, and you make it sound as if Elite Dangerous, this game, is not for you, because you sound very very unhappy with it.

The current community goal is making people do a 500k Ls trip to get to the Station to accept the mission in banki. 50k for khasiri. This is after likely hundreds of light years in jumps. 500k ls is a 20 minute supercruise bonanza. You have to turn in at those stations too. It can be a pain to explore as well. There's plenty of high tech systems that are like this as well. Don't use real life examples ok. It's a game and flying for that long is boring and many times has made me say forget it, I'm finding another system to do things in.

 

[MrVibrating]

I want to point something out to you that you seem to be entirely skipping, those were singleplayer games. And one of the massive differences between those and multiplayer, is meeting other players. There are other people then you in the game, if there is to be ANY sort of interaction there needs to be a certain pace, if everyone could and I quote: "Bish bash bosh, trade, debrief, retask, refit and refurbish and be launching again in less time than it takes to fly halfway across a system in ED." then how would any sort of other player have ANY chance of catching you? hell almost even just typing a text to you, saying hi before you'd be gone? Because that is all the difference I see that there would be from increased speed? Could you perhaps tell me some others? and explain how it would improve the game to speed up?

I understand that you want to determine your pace, but yeah that's not how elite dangerous is made, but lets say they made it so you could get to those far off stations in what 1 min? get it, go to the best selling distance and sell them in like I don't know 5 minutes? maybe 10? would that make you happy? is that what you want? a game where you can earn those millions of golds so fast so you can get whatever you want yesterday?

Obviously MP means compromising Elite's traditional ideals. Some degree of sacrifice is thus inevitable. But first off my No.1 choice would be NO compromises - ie. no MP - but if it's a given then regardless, i don't feel that ED has made the best choices of compromise. It's too 'lowest common denominator' when MP could've introduced more nuanced and detailed elements into the bargain. For example, managing some degree of time dilation betwen players, rather than circumventing it entirely with the sacrilege of 'universal time'. Adding in selectable frames of reference, rather than the outrage of 'absolute speed' using the vacuum (or rather the underlying coordinate system) as a reference frame.

I'm not missing anything - i've said repeatedly that i'd rather do without MP than compromise the greatest game ever.. MP is inimical to what makes Elite so 1337.