Not so Iron Asp...

[MattBlaK]

Ramming = I totally understand
Combat = I totally understand
Fuel scoop = I totally understand (but is a maintenance mechanic so would need to be respectfully balanced)
Supercruise = Enforced way of getting about... Really?

But still, the cost is a little extreme in any of the above. So there really is no other choice after Cobra unless you grind or have mega cargo hold to maintain.

I should just mention that I am a Beta player so this isn't a revelation. It's just that now is the first time that I have had a chance to play with an asp since pre-release...

 

[CMDR Beltane]

Hogwash. Our ships are plated with armor to withstand high energy laser blasts and explosive bullets. Some even upgrade to "military" grade armor - and that's when you get past the shields. If you're gonna go down that path of logic how does space dust penetrate shields?

The W&T logic put in place is like everything else in this game - inconsistent and without direction. It seems to be put in arbitrarily as a credit sink.

Last time i checked shields are not online during SC

If you want to add it to the usual armors - works for me. Not for default lightweight hull though, there should aways be a trade off as it is with the already existing platings.

 

[MattBlaK]

Asps are where you really start to get punished with the repair mechanic. It only gets worse from there. Merely scratching the hull on a Python will cost you tens of thousands, I don't even want to think what it costs for an Anaconda or T9.

Wear and tear also seems to be double dipping, ripping off the pilot. If you select 'repair all', 'all' would seem to imply everything gets fixed. Unfortunately 'repair all' seems to really mean 'repair hull' in FDSpeak, and in addition to the huge bill for repairing 'all', you're going to get fleeced again by paying the wear and tear bill.

To take Beltane's idea a step further, add in a new module. Navigational Deflectors (think Star Trek). They would take up an additional internal slot, in much the same way the discovery scanners, etc.. do, and that would mitigate the W&T damage to the hull.

One would think that having shields now would mitigate that to some degree already, so they also have an avenue there as well. Better rated shields reduce W&T damage to the hull. Those who choose to run without shields suffer a penalty by incurring more W&T, because there's nothing there to absorb the impact of particulates, etc....

There are ways to make it work better than it does now, they just need to take a closer look at things. Punitive game mechanics, especially those with no sound logic behind them, tend to discourage people from playing.

It really is beginning to. 6 months now and I just wanted my versatile Asp back but it seems an unrealistic choice. I don't want to take down anacondas like I did in my Cobra before 1.1, but I would like to wander about without paying through the nose for it.

I am sure it's already been done, but any way of creating a page/protest for at least a balance?

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You don't need to be on SC to get W&T damage, someone tested that already. And even if annoying, the idea behind it is quite easy to understand. Those ships fly, even below SC speed very fast and all the time that funny little stretches you see out of your cockpit impact on your hull, space dust. And over time, that simply weakens your structure and with that your structural integrity. Someone who has ever seen what happens to metal that was grit blasted might now what i mean.

Should this be change? Imho, only to some degree. What i wouldn't like to see it that costs are simply cut down by half. My personal favourite would be an aditional armor plating specifically designed for long space travels. It will weigh, yes - so you would have to choose between maximum possible jump range, but in exchange you would get a 75% slower degrading effect of those long SC travels. Or maybe 2 / 3 version with different costs / weight / "damage" reduction.

Totally understood, but with the lack of other income it makes the asp a really bad option overall. Even as an explorer.

 

[Nauht]

Last time i checked shields are not online during SC

If you want to add it to the usual armors - works for me. Not for default lightweight hull though, there should aways be a trade off as it is with the already existing platings.

Didn't you just say in the first line of your previous post that you didn't need to be in SC to get W&T?

But yeah, you'd think they'd create spaceships in line with the requirements of whatever is required for that fictional world.

 

[Masta Squidge]

Last time i checked shields are not online during SC

If you want to add it to the usual armors - works for me. Not for default lightweight hull though, there should aways be a trade off as it is with the already existing platings.

No, but you can assume the FSD projects a field or bubble of some sort to protect the ship and enable the warping of space-time.

It's a simple fact of life in space that micro-meteors are ship killers, and you can't just assume the FSD doesn't deal with them in an effective manner. At superluminal speeds, any particles of dust colliding with or penetrating the FSD field would erupt with incredible amounts of energy, if they survived the transition into the field at all they would be travelling at 1C and colliding with the ship would penetrate the entire thing.

 

[MattBlaK]

No, but you can assume the FSD projects a field or bubble of some sort to protect the ship and enable the warping of space-time.

It's a simple fact of life in space that micro-meteors are ship killers, and you can't just assume the FSD doesn't deal with them in an effective manner. At superluminal speeds, any particles of dust colliding with or penetrating the FSD field would erupt with incredible amounts of energy, if they survived the transition into the field at all they would be travelling at 1C and colliding with the ship would penetrate the entire thing.

I'm fully with the idea of wear an tear, Shields or no in SC, but the cost of it for the asp is far beyond its price bracket. I can afford it, but that doesn't mean that it's right for the punch that it can pull income wise.

Just saying...

 

[Biggerjohn]

I agree that the ware a tare mechanic is just plain wrong.

After all would you buy a car that needed massive repairs every time you visited the shops?

The ships just wouldn't be fit for purpose.

I understand that the game needs some way to get money out of players hands but it needs to be in a more realistic and passable way.

The cost are just to high just for moving about.

I would introduce docking fees based on the size of the ship this could be modified by your standing and affiliation with the station and would much more plausible.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

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[CMDR Beltane]

<snip> Didn't you just say in the first line of your previous post that you didn't need to be in SC to get W&T?

Was tested by someone else, so i can't tell if right or wrong. Anyways, i guess even if there is some minor W&T sub SC, we couldn't care less as you usually stay for long unless you take a visit to a beacon or RES. And if there is, dunno why - cause yea, i would expect shields to deflect that particles if its able to withstand impacts of ships that have several hundred tons.

No, but you can assume the FSD projects a field or bubble of some sort to protect the ship and enable the warping of space-time.

It's a simple fact of life in space that micro-meteors are ship killers, and you can't just assume the FSD doesn't deal with them in an effective manner. At superluminal speeds, any particles of dust colliding with or penetrating the FSD field would erupt with incredible amounts of energy, if they survived the transition into the field at all they would be travelling at 1C and colliding with the ship would penetrate the entire thing.

From what i understand, the FSD "only" compresses space (partially shifts you into witchspace?) and therefore time arround you. That doesn't make space particles non existent. And at least from my understanding, there is no bubble arround you - that effect is caused by gravitational effects. Reason why your FSD has problems to remain stable and efficient close to celestial bodies. How close to notice the effect depends on the mass of the body itself.

After all would you buy a car that needed massive repairs every time you visited the shops?

You can't compare that to what happens during space travel. Buy your car, drive through an extremely heavy sand storm grinding the color from the metal and with time even eats through said metal and you have an idea what happens during SC.

 

[MattBlaK]

Yeah, I think I'll refit my Cobra again and aim for a T-7

I don't and wouldn't mind pottering around in the Asp, but it doesn't seem a reasonable way to play. I could understand if I had a python.

 

[Masta Squidge]

I'm fully with the idea of wear an tear, Shields or no in SC, but the cost of it for the asp is far beyond its price bracket. I can afford it, but that doesn't mean that it's right for the punch that it can pull income wise.

Just saying...

I really wasn't referring to the fact that wear and tear should be in the game. I was making the point that wear and tear being excessive in SC makes no damn sense. The FSD by design should actually entirely protect the ship, because if anything at all makes it through it would be catastrophic.

 

[MattBlaK]

Was tested by someone else, so i can't tell if right or wrong. Anyways, i guess even if there is some minor W&T sub SC, we couldn't care less as you usually stay for long unless you take a visit to a beacon or RES. And if there is, dunno why - cause yea, i would expect shields to deflect that particles if its able to withstand impacts of ships that have several hundred tons.



From what i understand, the FSD "only" compresses space (partially shifts you into witchspace?) and therefore time arround you. That doesn't make space particles non existent. And at least from my understanding, there is no bubble arround you - that effect is caused by gravitational effects. Reason why your FSD has problems to remain stable and efficient close to celestial bodies. How close to notice the effect depends on the mass of the body itself.



You can't compare that to what happens during space travel. Buy your car, drive through an extremely heavy sand storm grinding the color from the metal and with time even eats through said metal and you have an idea what happens during SC.

I'd get that, but one trip... I'm not arguing the mechanic, but the cost ratio.

 

[MattBlaK]

I guess there are a couple of things here:

There is no way of making realistic money (without trading yourself to the devil) in smaller ships.
You can't trade large enough amounts of money in smaller ships.
In smaller ships dogfighting is great but you can't do much else.
After Cobra there is no flexibility unless you have millions of credits
Enjoyment isn't part of the game mechanic after Cobra.
Nothing to really aim for (unless someone can tell me how) after the Cobra, that makes sense in the traditional Elite profit based aspect, after that...

Cos lets face it, all we want is a better, nicer, car, and that is all the game has to provide us with right now.

 

[CMDR Beltane]

I'd get that, but one trip... I'm not arguing the mechanic, but the cost ratio.

I hear you, and i agree with you. See, i would love to explore space with my clipper - but without the tear shed at the end of the journey. There has to be found a solution, i agree with you all on that. But cutting costs simply by half just feels... wrong for me. In a game like this there should always be some kind of trade off. You get protection against that damage, either by using armor like military armor and such - or some new special armor for space explorers is added, but you loose some maximum jump range as you carry more weight arround. Not saying that it has to be that way, but i would like to see something like that.

 

[Nauht]

You can't compare that to what happens during space travel. Buy your car, drive through an extremely heavy sand storm grinding the color from the metal and with time even eats through said metal and you have an idea what happens during SC.

How about an armored Abrams tank in a dust storm? Cos that's what we pay the equivalent for when we buy the "military" plating. And you're talking about a fully fledged sandstorm where the particles are condensed into one area.

Is there even space dust in witchspace or whatever space you're in when you go faster than light.

I think we should stop with real world analogies as everything said can be countered some way or the other.
The fact is it's a made up world and that's what the devs have decided. Creative license and all that. So really there's nothing we can do about it except doing what we're doing now - voicing our concerns on their forums.

 

[MattBlaK]

But cutting costs simply by half just feels... wrong for me.

It does feel wrong, It's excessive in the asp and maybe it should be considered different at it's end of the scale, but just cutting it is not the way to do it. The Asp can handle it's own in a fight with a good commander but it should be expensive to fix if they get it wrong. Just drifting about though.. Na.

Can we promote this thread/concept as it's the only "low tier", "high end" ship?

 

[CMDR Beltane]

How about an armored Abrams tank in a dust storm? Cos that's what we pay the equivalent for when we buy the "military" plating.

Hehe, had to laugh to be honest - not in a bad way though. Actually - most explorers won't fly the abrams version of their ship, to get mehr LY out of their FSD. On the rest, i agree with you - its the way FD decided things to be. As already stated, my hopes go for either some special explorer plating or that the plating that already exists gets also the same amount of protection against that "space dust" as it already has vs. other kinetic impacts.

 

[MattBlaK]

And I don't really mean just for the asp though. But the problem doesn't seem to affect the haulers or anything (T-7) in that range. If they introduce the full range of ships I would be happy to retract my concerns...

 

[KombattWombatt]

So I've been saving up for an asp to do some deep space exploring. This is worrying, though.

When I'm out in the black, I'm going to want to Supercruise around quite a bit.

Am I just going to have to part and sell my ship when I return?

 

[MattBlaK]

I'd love to fly an Abrams in space! It'd be like the tank cheat in GTA. The one where you could fly them by firing the canon

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So I've been saving up for an asp to do some deep space exploring. This is worrying, though.

When I'm out in the black, I'm going to want to Supercruise around quite a bit.

Am I just going to have to part and sell my ship when I return?

That's what is worrying me too.

I want the Asp to go exploring but I want to make sure that i can hold it's own first (apparently there are pirates out there beyond populated space ) but since I've been using it solely, it's unrealistic to save money...