Getting EXTREMELY frustrated with a certain interdiction exploit

[Cmdr Sharky]

I hate pirates.

Hating a player who is pirating is like hating an actor who is playing a villain. I don't believe that the film industry should be biased against actors who play villains. I don't believe that Elite should be biased against players who play pirates. Fine, play a character who hates pirates and hunts them down. But that's not relevant in a thread that is about game balance and game mechanics. It's off topic.

 

[Scottworld]

And here is a "Pirate fishing guide" on how you can have some fun with the "Pirates"


https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=90720&page=23&p=1782908&viewfull=1#post1782908

 

[Gully Foyle]

I can also concur (as the Angel Rose in question) that Alexander the Grape was one of the couple of pirates we ran into repeatedly in Yembo last night. Every single pirate that got me acted like gentlemen (in so much as you can when you're robbing a lady) and despite losing 5 or 6 escorts, about 20k in cargo and taking one fatal hit that cost half a million in insuarnce for my T7, I had a most enjoyable evening I only ran once in 3 hours of play btw...

I don't know what the answer is to the game mechanics, but I really hope they fix it as it would be a shame to lose this element of gameplay.

I believe most commanders feel that getting interdicted when you are clean by pirates is an annoying crime.
Submitting, taking zero damage and being able to escape a likely superior pirate is a traders only chance to survive.
I bet my stamp collection that FD won't tamper with this beyond making the Interdiction mini-game harder as they have.
I fly a Viper Q-ship with rares as bait and I can imagine the look on their scurvy dog faces when they suddenly realize their easy cat and mouse game just reversed roles.
GOOD HUNTING CMDRS

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Hating a player who is pirating is like hating an actor who is playing a villain. I don't believe that the film industry should be biased against actors who play villains. I don't believe that Elite should be biased against players who play pirates. Fine, play a character who hates pirates and hunts them down. But that's not relevant in a thread that is about game balance and game mechanics. It's off topic.

I think Jerakeen IS playing his role mate

 

[Krollin]

Greetings Commanders,

Welcome to Elite Carebear....sorry Dangerous.... (intended comment to reflect my post)

We need these PVP'ers to make the game more "dangerous". NPC AI is well not worth the ammo imo. Having the thrill or heart pounding moment when you get interdicted by someone who can actually cause you a financial lose in my mind is well any truly needed.

Is if fun to lose a ship to a player, not really, but it gets the blood pumping and helps balance the risk vs. reward mechanic in any game. Granted some players just want to see the galaxy burn and inflict wanton death and destruction on others. You can't and won't stop that (well unless you go group or solo ofc). Embrace it as part of the game and learn to get around it, and at present that is the submit and evade mechanic....

As for the current characteristics with Interdictions, well its a see-saw, it may well be in the favour of the traders and alike, but things change and perhaps for a period of time the balance will shift. Make hay while the sun shines I believe is the phrase (along with adapt or die!).

What I am saying is that some people choose to play the Trader, Explorer, Bounty Hunter. But we need the balance we need the pirates (love them or hate them)...

It is an online game, with that comes PVP and the age old debate of PVP balancing, ive not played an online game yet that hasn't had this debate....

Fly safe

Kro

 

[Cmdr Sharky]

I think Jerakeen IS playing his role mate

If someone's going to bring role-play into a game mechanics thread, then they need to be clear that they are talking in character, rather than giving the impression that he wants piracy to be discouraged by game mechanics.

 

[Stinky]

.... Granted some players just want to see the galaxy burn and inflict wanton death and destruction on others.

Guilty xD

Fly safe

But not too safe

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Greetings Commanders,

What I am saying is that some people choose to play the Trader, Explorer, Bounty Hunter. But we need the balance we need the pirates (love them or hate them)...

Kro

I totally agree, but encouraging pirates is more than just forcing a CMDR in his type 6 to have to fight off a tooled up viper rather than allowing him to just run away!.

the security AI needs to be beefed up. A WTD pirate should have to play VERY carefully by going into High sec space, their normal haunts should be anarchy and low sec systems. (to balance we should have pirate bases where trading in stolen goods is encouraged and where profits are close to legit as well)

Equally there should be a whole new level of WTD over and above the crimes committed by pirates, saved solely for people who wantonly destroy pilots federation members, and these fugitives should be hated(in game) by pirates, traders and BHers alike.... possibly with them getting their Pilots Federation status (complete with insurance) revoked.

pirates say they want to experience the exhilaration of being a pirate but that can only happen if the game treats pirates in a believable way.
And same for those who just want to make the world burn!. There is a reason why mass murderer is not a valid long term career choice in today's society, and anyone who thinks that a psychopath would be gifted an unending supply of vessels off an insurance company in the future is deluded.. ED is attempting to simulate what the future may be like if we finally reach for the stars, and the whole actions needing medium term consequences is imo the area which needs most work at the moment.

but imo it would be a disaster to nerf fleeing BEFORE fixing the above.

 

[Roycie]

We need these PVP'ers to make the game more "dangerous". NPC AI is well not worth the ammo imo. Having the thrill or heart pounding moment when you get interdicted by someone who can actually cause you a financial lose in my mind is well any truly needed.

Is if fun to lose a ship to a player, not really, but it gets the blood pumping and helps balance the risk vs. reward mechanic in any game.
Embrace it as part of the game and learn to get around it, and at present that is the submit and evade mechanic....

If cost of death was 30 mins, maybe. But while it's 1-3 hours (or even more), the pirates can't have too easy a time of it...

 

[Briarée]

It's not an exploit but it is a mechanic in need of tuning as FD has said. But that's tricky. The trader need a chance to escape if good enough, having said that, with the long fsd cool down and you being in a cobra if you can't even kill a t6 out of frustration you're doing something wrong.

As the forum is full of pirates who manage to force a cargo drop that seems to reinforce the point.

read OP again, the target submitted, meaning there was NO "long" cooldown, just a regular one.

i've been the target in a very much similar situation as OP describe, flying a type6 and being interdicted.

i submitted and just boosted away waiting for FSD to cool and charge, then i cryed at how easy it was for me to escape.

i did nothing special, just boosted strait and escaped, in a type 6 full cargo + original shield generator and i get out with 15% shield remaining.

this is not normal, it is way too easy to escape, this need to be tuned, maybe by making the FSD cooldown longer, not as long as the one you get for failing the minigame, but something in between the current one you get for submitting and the one you get when failing the minigame

 

[micky1up]

The problem lies with the security mechanic make more secure space less profitable but safe trade wise and less secure space more profitable but risky it really is that simple

you want to make it rich fast be prepared to suffer

 

[Skuli]

I ended up selling my T7 and outfitting an Asp for combat and rare trading. I spent the weekend in open play on a smallish personal rares circuit and was only interdicted by NPCs.

I like this much better than A/B/A/B/A/B trading, even if the profits are less.

NPC Pythons and imperial clippers were no problem at all. Didn't drop below 50% shields once and racked up about 200k in bounties just from killing interdictors, alongside a couple of million from rares trading.

This probably just means they'll go after rares trading next...

 

[Mnemoch]

read OP again, the target submitted, meaning there was NO "long" cooldown, just a regular one.

i've been the target in a very much similar situation as OP describe, flying a type6 and being interdicted.

i submitted and just boosted away waiting for FSD to cool and charge, then i cryed at how easy it was for me to escape.

You would have preferred to have your ship blown up? Or just a little hull damage?

 

[sutex]

Consequences

Consequences , I wrote about this before , can't find the thread



There must be consequences , this gives the game the balance and the ability to play in open , I play in Mobius , because there are no consequences for the attacker on the harmless

The wanted tag is the key , If you are a Murderer/Pirate , then you have a high bounty really high ,bigger ships get even more money, ( cost repair ) in the millions , This way , if you go around been a bother you'll be the one hunted

Insurance increases 10 fold each time you the Murderer/Pirate kills the harmless or your ship the Murderer/Pirate gets blown up.

Traders who sacrifice defensive weaponry for cargo space ie shields chaff point defense ,are allowed to be attack be killed by Murderer/Pirate , that's any harmless too, without fear of Murderer/Pirate wanted status increasing, the bigger , the ship, the more defensive weaponry you must have, its a DANGEROUS universe and only the elite traders can survive, by been smart not greedy.

Murderer/Pirate job is attack steal , go sell at black market , for a normal station will blow them out of the sky , the minute they turn up, This means certain trade routes will be more dangerous than others , depending how far away a Blackmarket outpost is.

The only way a Murderer/Pirate can get their wanted Murderer/Pirate status down is by paying restitution , to the victims , or by doing missions, both are costly either in time or money.

Murderer/Pirate must communicate with the ship ,they are pirating "HEAVE TOO give me your cargo" , if you don't reply or don't HEAVE TOO , then the Murderer/Pirate can blow you the trader, out of the sky

So want to be a Murdering Pirate... go for it

 

[Thrust Killstruction]

My 'stuff' might have taken several hours of my time to earn in terms of cargo and insurance costs. And that's just for one interdiction that ends in a killing.

I agree with pretty well all that you said. My comment was meant to be about the nature of actual hatred directed at pirate players, rather than a game mechanic. As someone else pointed out already, you don't hate an actor who plays a villain lol. Otherwise only terrible actors will be willing to play villains.

The problem is as you said - you can lose hours worth of progress in an instant sometimes. This does add an element of suspense to the game, but its kind of like the element of suspense having the flu adds to not having access to a restroom.

I would suggest missions centered around systems at war for traders which involve bringing in vital supplies. During these missions you have the same sort status as if you went to a conflict zone and picked that side - any opposing player can target you without penalty. However, to achieve this they would need to acquire a privateer licence from that side. If a pirate or trader die while this status is active, they pay only 1% insurance, with the side they are fighting for covering the rest. Attacks against players not participating incur the usual penalties.

And somebody, please, MAKE THE MISSIONS REWARD ENOUGH TO BE WORTHWHILE TO SOMEONE WHO GOT PAST THE SIDEWINDER.This way there is more of an incentive for people to actually participate in pvp throughout the system at war and in nearby space.

 

[sutex]

Thrust Killstruction;
And somebody, please, MAKE THE MISSIONS REWARD ENOUGH TO BE WORTHWHILE TO SOMEONE WHO GOT PAST THE SIDEWINDER.This way there is more of an incentive for people to actually participate in pvp throughout the system at war and in nearby space.

Missions , are pointless at the moment unless your RPGing , if you trade , the stations turns friendly , the background of ED politics doesn't drag you in I have no-idea of the consequences, missions seem irrelevant

 

[Space Dandy]

Apologies for the flame-war-ey title, but I've grown increasingly annoyed over the past few days and I need to vent. I even created a forum account to post.

So I'm a pirate operating in Yembo. It's a tough, poorly paying career fraught with danger and risk (I suppose that's the price for player interaction and good gameplay...).

However, more and more lately, CMDRs (always in type 6s for some reason) have been SUBMITTING to my interdiction, and then IMMEDIATELY supercruising away, bypassing the usual interdiction FSD cooldown and making them virtually impossible to do more than a few points of hull damage to.

Just now, I interdicted the same commander 3 times. The first time, they submitted, and I told them to cut their engines. They didn't respond, merely charged their FSD. I attacked them in response, but failed to get their shields down.

I immediately followed them to supercruise, and had to follow them for 400LS before I could catch up and interdict again. Once more, they submitted, and once more, they immediately boosted away and charged their FSD. This time, I opened fire immediately, managing to do 10-20% damage before they jumped again.

Once more I followed, once more I interdicted, and yup you guessed it once more they submitted. This was only 20Mm from the station so I didn't even bother with the warning, blasting at their shields immediately. I had just managed to get them down again before they vanished.

I even followed them to the damn station, but was too late, they slid through the docking port just as I got in range. I proceeded to camp outside the station with thrusters off and temp at 27% to hide my wanted status for a good 5-10 mins, but they either retreated back to Solo or logged off for the night.

Needless to say, I am extremely annoyed and tired of the fact that "submitting" to interdiction lets you leave almost as soon as you arrive. I know many of you will say "get gud" or "get a faster/masslocking ship" but I don't want to grind to play at pirate whilst losing money. Ever since my first million credits, I have only pirated. It should be a career not an expensive hobby.

But I digress. My Cobra is nearly the fastest ship with weapons possible (455m/s boost speed) and heavily armed. Should it really be impossible for me to pose any threat to a weaponless mid-tier trader? (whose ship, btw, likely costs far less than my 3mil). All while making more money in one trip than I do in an evening!

PLEASE Frontier, do something about this ridiculous exploit. And traders who play in open: please don't use it! If you don't want to face pirates, that's fine, just don't trade in the most populated system in the game in Open mode!

Crime doesn't pay...for you

 

[Count Iblis]

I hate pirates. It's no better than the chav down the road who steals a kid's mobile phone or who burgles a pensioner. That trader might have struggled to raise the money for that load of goods and you think you have the right to come and take it away from him because you have a better armed ship? I hunt people like you down and blow you into space dust. And you won't get a warning from me. Am I carrying anything nice? You betcha. A full load of bullets and they're all aimed at YOUR face.

Well said have some rep!

I'm amazed that folks or 'space chavs' on this thread have no sense of shame of being losers and basically being proud of it.

I blame it on socialism and a sense of entitlement!

 

[Kastor]

Interdiction Submission get me down. I hope it changes so trading has some actual risk.

 

[Cheshyr]

I'm not going to take sides here, since I believe the entire dynamic is broken.

As a Bounty Hunter, I never had someone I couldn't pull from SC. Hunting in a Viper, Cobra, or even an Eagle was pretty easy. If it was a freighter, they basically had no chance in combat. I'm not a great pilot, but it was heavily balanced in my favor. They either ran or they died.

As a Trader, I find the situation is the same. I sure as hell can't fight them... they outgun and out-maneuver me. The only interdictions I can shake off are NPC interdictions... when a player interdicts me, I can be parked on the blue circle for 15 seconds straight, at full throttle, and I'm losing the minigame. I couldn't win the mini-game, and I couldn't win in actual combat, so I dumped the 2 million into top-grade thrusters and power distributors, and I run... disable flight assist, chain boost, chaff, SC when off cooldown. The only ships that keep up are Cobras and Vipers that are willing to do the same. It's a technique that both can employ and master, but it's not always easy.

If they're persistent, it ends up being a stalemate. I had one CMDR follow me around for almost an hour one night. I would hop back into SC, drop back out with no target, wait a little bit hoping he would be gone. He wasn't. He followed to neighboring systems, well off the rare loop. Neither of us got anything done that night... he got no loot, I got no trading done. A complete waste for both of us.

I play Open because playing Solo feels cheap. I don't like these interactions, but pirates are part of this world; they're part of the game content. I'll never drop connection, or use network tricks to escape. If I log off for the night, I do so in a station where I've escaped to and hidden, just as a real pilot would. The frustration at that point is the same for both of us... we've both failed at our tasks for the evening, and our game time is basically done.

The entire dynamic feels off to me. For a trader, that could be hours or days of work lost, depending on how much time they have available to invest in the game. (I'll leave the discussion of the ridiculous time investment expectations of this game for another thread.) The best case situation for the pirate is dropped cargo, which they could have retrieved themselves from the neighboring system in a few minutes. The worst case is lost money from spent ammo, and nothing to show for it. The best case for the trader is escape with the cargo, and the worst case is immense loss of progress. It's just not a good interaction for either side, and that's really what needs to be addressed.

Anyway, sorry for the wall of text. I'm sure it'll get lost in the thread rage, but I wanted to toss it out there in case someone had similar thoughts.

 

[tomPhoenix]

Who's going to listen to you if you say "cut your engines" ?? Were you seriously expecting them to stick around?