Combat ship progression

CMDR Dave Quakes · Feb 21, 2015

Hi,
I've been flying my mostly A class Cobra for week or so now and enjoying very much and just been having a nose around to see what's next as someone who just wants to fight and doesn't have too much interest in the other paths.
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From what I can see the next ships I need to aim for is a Python or Imperial dropship but the initial ship cost is 100 times more than the Cobra plus parts which I can imagine is going to ratchet it up even further.
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If I want this in a reasonable time scale (I appreciate there are many values of reasonable) at say 10 hrs a week game time then I'm going to going to have to go grind out some rare trades for a while. I just want to check I'm not missing a fighter option between Cobra and Federal Dropship?
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I guess Asp is the next step but I'm not convinced they are practical for pure combat, only really from fighting them in combat zones and they just seem so big relative to their damage out put that its not a great step.
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Any advice / views appreciated.
Cheers,
DQ

Midnight-shadow · Feb 21, 2015

Question: If all you care about is combat then why are you flying a multi-purpose craft like a Cobra?

Regardless, An A-class Cobra in the right hands can beat up any of the bigger ships. Hell, an A-class Viper or Eagle in the right hands can do that. You do NOT need the biggest ship to be effective in combat. I love the combat in this game purely because it is designed so that with the right amount of skill, any ship can win. You'll find that most players in combat zones use either an Eagle (less so with the dumbfire nerfs), A viper or a Cobra.

Kyle Brennan · Feb 21, 2015

Midnight-shadow said:
Question: If all you care about is combat then why are you flying a multi-purpose craft like a Cobra?

Regardless, An A-class Cobra in the right hands can beat up any of the bigger ships. Hell, an A-class Viper or Eagle in the right hands can do that. You do NOT need the biggest ship to be effective in combat. I love the combat in this game purely because it is designed so that with the right amount of skill, any ship can win. You'll find that most players in combat zones use either an Eagle (less so with the dumbfire nerfs), A viper or a Cobra.

Well that is the problem, a tiny single seater should never win against a conda. Speed boats do not sink battleships.

karl_eller · Feb 21, 2015

The combat ship progression goes Eagle, Viper and then... nothing. There are a couple of OK options after the Viper (ASP, Clipper/Dropship, Python), but they're all-purpose ships, not combat ships, and they're a LOT more expensive (142k for the Viper vs 6.6m for the ASP). They're working on a medium (I think) combat ship in the form of the Fer de Lance, but there's nothing there at the moment.

Bertak · Feb 21, 2015

Vulture is coming in 1.2 so keep saving your credits. It should be a stepping stone towards Python. I have a fully outfitted Python but I am looking forward to it. A dedicated fighter with 2 large hard points and great maneuverability is going to be a hoot!

Eagle Eye · Feb 21, 2015

Well atm you are in the wrong ship. Pure combat ends at Viper. I outfit my Clipper and Python for pure combat, but it felt like a waste, more so on the Clipper with it's dinky 40T cargo in combat fittings. Both also have horrible jump range weighed down by armor. Python is much more combat viable, but you can do the same stuff it can do against NPC in a Viper. I fit my Asp for multipurpose and warzones. I had it at pure combat before and it was not worth it...

Hence the Viper is my main combat ship. Same horrible range, can kill everything, much cheaper to run.

Hopefully the Vulture is viable (current C3 weapons leaves a lot to be desired though)

Darshendros the Eternal · Feb 21, 2015

Asps make pretty decent gunships if you got a few million cr to put into it. C/B-grade equipment can get you by 'til you can afford A's. A-grade distributor is surprisingly cheap also.

Bertak · Feb 21, 2015

Eagle Eye said:
Well atm you are in the wrong ship. Pure combat ends at Viper. I outfit my Clipper and Python for pure combat, but it felt like a waste, more so on the Clipper with it's dinky 40T cargo in combat fittings. Bo5h also have horrible jump range weighed down by armor. Python is much more combat viable, but you can do the same stuff it can do against NPC in a Viper. I fit my Asp for multipurpose and warzones. I had it at pure combat before and it was not worth it...

Hence the Viper is my main combat ship. Same horrible range, can kill everything, much cheaper to run.

Hopefully the Vulture is viable (current C3 weapons leaves a lot to be desired though)

The lack of C3 weapons is a bit bothersome. Hopefully new ones will be part of 1.2

mitth'raw'nuruodo · Feb 21, 2015

Op I agree with you. You can indeed look at Asp as your next step. But even the gap between the Asp and the Python is mind-numbingly full of hundreds of hours of wasted time.

But fear not, Fer de Lance and Vulture are coming next month. Both are combat focussed ships and I think they will be priced somehwere between the Asp (or may be even the Cobra) and the Python.

Midnight-shadow said:
Regardless, An A-class Cobra in the right hands can beat up any of the bigger ships. Hell, an A-class Viper or Eagle in the right hands can do that. You do NOT need the biggest ship to be effective in combat. I love the combat in this game purely because it is designed so that with the right amount of skill, any ship can win. You'll find that most players in combat zones use either an Eagle (less so with the dumbfire nerfs), A viper or a Cobra.

This is a myth, an excuse to defend the grindy prices of ships.

Eagle Eye · Feb 21, 2015

Bertak said:
The lack of C3 weapons is a bit bothersome. Hopefully new ones will be part of 1.2

All I can think of is fixed Beam Laser and fixed Cannon. Not exactly spoilt for choice...

Vulture should be affordable, but Fer de Lance is said to be expensive. When a dev is asked of its price, the answer was "lots"

Goilveig · Feb 21, 2015

Kyle Brennan said:
Well that is the problem, a tiny single seater should never win against a conda. Speed boats do not sink battleships.

The USS Cole was rendered inoperable by a speed boat; she had to be towed from port and rebuilt in dry dock.

And the Anaconda has never been a "battleship". Both the Anaconda and Python are armed civilian freighters, not military battleships, although the description of the Anaconda says it may be used in small militaries as a light cruiser or frigate.

The Farragut-class battle cruisers (the Federation capital ship) are the closest equivalent of a battleship.

Faybs · Feb 21, 2015

The Cole was docked at the time that happened, so that was the RL equivalent of an Eagle spamming dumbfires inside a station.

Loskene · Feb 21, 2015

Combat progression for me pretty much ended at the Viper/Cobra stage. Even the Asp becomes too expensive to run if you're going pure combat. I nearly went broke when I did that, and have since rebought the Asp as a secondary trading ship after selling it to copy the A-rated Viper that nearly killed me in a war zone. Thank you for the inspiration, whoever you were, I've been having much more fun in it than I ever had trying to fly an expensive gunship for a military that doesn't cover expenses.

Shiny Danger · Feb 21, 2015

Kyle Brennan said:
Well that is the problem, a tiny single seater should never win against a conda. Speed boats do not sink battleships.

Thats the thing a conda is not a Battleship, Frontier have explicitly prevented us from flying battleships. The Conda is a corvette at most and there's plenty of arguments for Smaller ships taking out ships of that class. Needless to say, the rules of space are not the same as naval warfare anyway where we could be carrying antimatter warheads on our tiny fighters if we wanted(albiet we don't have the option it seems). For game balances sake a Conda is the best "fighter ship"" but realistically it would be designed to be anti cap ship. Those don't appear often enough in the game( because of Frontiers wierd anti fun ideologies) so that isn't represented properly.

Loskene · Feb 21, 2015

Shiny Danger said:
Thats the thing a conda is not a Battleship, Frontier have explicitly prevented us from flying battleships. The Conda is a corvette at most and there's plenty of arguments for Smaller ships taking out ships of that class. Needless to say, the rules of space are not the same as naval warfare anyway where we could be carrying antimatter warheads on our tiny fighters if we wanted(albiet we don't have the option it seems). For game balances sake a Conda is the best "fighter ship"" but realistically it would be designed to be anti cap ship. Those don't appear often enough in the game( because of Frontiers wierd anti fun ideologies) so that isn't represented properly.

Yeah, when the hell are we gonna see a dozen anacondas fighting a capital ship? That would be something worth travelling 200 lightyears for.

clivewil · Feb 21, 2015

a tiny single seater should never win against a conda

hmm perhaps not tiny, but small - yes. if you build a smaller craft that has a loadout of powerful weapons which come at the expense of range or cargo carrying, then why shouldn't it be able to take down a larger ship? if it can whittle away at it while keeping itself out of the line of fire, then it should be able to win, being purpose-built for the task

if a grunt with a few RPG rounds can take down a tank...

Bertak · Feb 21, 2015

Loskene said:
Combat progression for me pretty much ended at the Viper/Cobra stage. Even the Asp becomes too expensive to run if you're going pure combat. I nearly went broke when I did that, and have since rebought the Asp as a secondary trading ship after selling it to copy the A-rated Viper that nearly killed me in a war zone. Thank you for the inspiration, whoever you were, I've been having much more fun in it than I ever had trying to fly an expensive gunship for a military that doesn't cover expenses.

It is tough to make credits in expensive ships because one loss of a python you loose hours of combat bonds in one go. I can farm more kills in a python then in a viper but no doubt the Viper is the most fun.

Shiny Danger · Feb 21, 2015

Loskene said:
Yeah, when the hell are we gonna see a dozen anacondas fighting a capital ship? That would be something worth travelling 200 lightyears for.

Oh god I'd love that, that's a proper engagement what we've got right now is skirmishes in comparison.

Goilveig · Feb 21, 2015

Shiny Danger said:
Oh god I'd love that, that's a proper engagement what we've got right now is skirmishes in comparison.

My real hope with this game is that eventually the cold war between federation and empire devolves into a hot war

That would be a ton of fun.

Tezolo · Feb 21, 2015

Bertak said:
It is tough to make credits in expensive ships because one loss of a python you loose hours of combat bonds in one go. I can farm more kills in a python then in a viper but no doubt the Viper is the most fun.

I agree with this point. I flew an anaconda in the BD community goal conflict zones to excellent effect, as long as my shields didint collapse, using gimballed pulse lasers in every slot exept the bottom, where I used turreted pulse lasers set to fire at will. There was no need to re supply ammo so I was able to stay in the fight for hours, I'd only turn in my bonds when I ran out of cell banks. In one instance I hit the cap ship by mistake and had to bug out with 85% hull remaining, which was a hefty price to fix.

TLDR: you will make lots of $$$ in the cg combat zones in large ships, just do not allow your shields to drop