Immersion
- Thread starter HaiderGill
- Start date
Indeed... man, I can't wait to see what stuff will emerge through the alpha/beta test alone. I mean, even persistent bugs or game play quirks can result in neat little legacy rituals that are carried trough into the game proper.
This will be good...
Jenner
I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
I'm not sure we are talking about the same community here...
Now that's what I'm talkin' about!
It's rare to be immersed in a multiplayer game, but it is possible. It just depends who you play with and the type of game you're playing. Story based games such as Thief, System Shock 2 or Stalker are experiences that just cannot be replicated by playing with other people, as they keep talking or jumping up and down on the spot, or try to break the game etc. I tried to get immersed in Left 4 Dead with random players but they are so impatient they like to rush through the game, thus ruining any tension the developers might have intended to create. However, when I played it with friends the experience was totally different, as we were all playing it "properly" to become immersed, so choosing who you play with is very important.
For me, immersion comes from the whole package: graphics, sound, interactivity and story all fitting together to create something truly special. With Thief, what makes it so immersive is that Looking Glass created a very "complete" world, with realistic physics (for the time) and the sound effects are what truly help with that area, as the sound seems to envelop you if you play with headphones or surround speakers. In my opinion there are few games that have bettered it in terms of sound design, and the "Return to the Cathedral" level is pretty much the only time a game has genuinely creeped me out.
If you forget about "reality" around you, then you are truly immersed. The same effect happens when listening to a good piece of music or reading a book, and it's down to the quality of the work in question. There's something truly hypnotic about becoming immersed in a game world or book, and that's the effect I hope the new Elite game will achieve like the original Elite did.
For me, immersion comes from the whole package: graphics, sound, interactivity and story all fitting together to create something truly special. With Thief, what makes it so immersive is that Looking Glass created a very "complete" world, with realistic physics (for the time) and the sound effects are what truly help with that area, as the sound seems to envelop you if you play with headphones or surround speakers. In my opinion there are few games that have bettered it in terms of sound design, and the "Return to the Cathedral" level is pretty much the only time a game has genuinely creeped me out.
If you forget about "reality" around you, then you are truly immersed. The same effect happens when listening to a good piece of music or reading a book, and it's down to the quality of the work in question. There's something truly hypnotic about becoming immersed in a game world or book, and that's the effect I hope the new Elite game will achieve like the original Elite did.
I've never really played a multiplayer game, but I used to sit next to a guy who played ULTIMA ONLINE every lunchtime. He seemed pretty immersed to me.
Agreed - The last time I was truly immersed in an online game was on an RP server with Everquest. It was my first MMO so being a true newbie helped
A game that came close recently was Neverwinter Nights - I enjoyed the single player campaign but sadly the online scene didn't take off. There was a US Perpetual-Online server though that my friend used to play on that had nerfed the XP making it incredibly hard to level up. Instead they had a large team of admins who would reward players for roleplaying, ran events, etc .. that was fun, but I knew it was a game no matter how hard I tried to "believe" it and couldn't get into it.
Agreed - The last time I was truly immersed in an online game was on an RP server with Everquest. It was my first MMO so being a true newbie helped
A game that came close recently was Neverwinter Nights - I enjoyed the single player campaign but sadly the online scene didn't take off. There was a US Perpetual-Online server though that my friend used to play on that had nerfed the XP making it incredibly hard to level up. Instead they had a large team of admins who would reward players for roleplaying, ran events, etc .. that was fun, but I knew it was a game no matter how hard I tried to "believe" it and couldn't get into it.
Yeah i played on one for NvN called 3T (3 Towns). Was a breat lersistent little world, bit kf a forerunner for MMO's like the one ypu played on.
It was mainly casual, but had some good themed quest nights and RP was rewarded.
Agreed - The last time I was truly immersed in an online game was on an RP server with Everquest. It was my first MMO so being a true newbie helped
Everquest was my first too, really enjoyed that one, our guild (Opta Via) was quite low key sort of thing, was good times. Played some of Dungeons and Dragons Online, it was fun at first everyone was full roleplaying, but it became very boring as you had to repeat all the dungeons several times to gain experience. Roleplaying and thus any immersion was broken very quickly. WoW is horrid. EvE.. was basically an expensive chat room.
Indeed, this is very true. Back in the early days of EVE I used to run a unit called Cizin's Arm (that morphed into the Paratwa Ka and then the Namtz'aar K'in Alliance) (a pure hardcore RP unit) that hunted the Amarr ruthlessly. We had an amazing quirky atmosphere within our unit and were liken to fanatical zealots when we entered areas of space.
Interestingly enough, these early days were a time when there was no voice programs, not Teamspeak, no Ventrilos. Your personality was created purely by the way you text typed. This added to an amazing sense of immersion as peoples minds (like in a good book) filled in the image of what that person was before you.
As times changed and voice programs began to emerge the sense of immersion was destroyed when you found that the female character was actually a male and the voices didn't match the "image" you had spent years projecting in the mind via text.
The fact was, in a battle situation voice chat gave you a distinct advantage over text commands/orders and so died a little RP and immersion when it was embraced that day. It is why solo play is that much more immersive, you don't have characters popping up who aren't of yours or similar mindset.
Allen Stroud said:
Again, this works on the text typing level, but add voice chat to that and it becomes a whole new ball game. With voice chat people feel uncomfortable RPing, some in the past have tried to get round it with voice changing programs but it never works long term. I think the above situation can only ever work in a text typing sense.
Allen Stroud said:
I agree wholeheartedly with the above, but you know there are going to be a larger number of people who won't give a hoot about the story, the writings, they aim is solely to use the game as a method to compete and dominate, nothing more nothing less.
I think it is really important to have active people creating their own hardcore RP groups delving deeply into the storyline of the game. It's time consuming but it makes for an exceptional gaming world that many benefit from. I don't know how many times in the early days of EVE online I came across young pilots that knew nothing about RP but once emerged in it absolutely loved the richness it brought and spun it off elsewhere in the game.
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/68842-0/author/Pacal Balan
http://naturalviolence.blogspot.co.uk/2006/10/preparations-talking-to-pacal-balan.html
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=350020
The point being the universe RP wise and ingame alive or as dead as we choose to make it. FD (like in the early days of EVE with the CCP) are providing us with a foundation to pour ourselves into, what we make of it is up to us, it really is.
I'm playing a "game" that I'm a starship commander/pilot, I have no interest to be pulled out of that immersion by anyone. The fact that some seek to do that means (for me) they are instantly placed on my block or banned list and if it gets to the point where it is no longer controllable ... well ... I'll just have to go solo play and leave it at that. A selfish way of playing? Maybe. Still, I see myself as a high end backer (be that through backing the game or buying a Oculus) of this game and thus I know the game I want to play. It's a RP driven universe or nothing, that simple. I'm not interested in hearing what Arsenal did away last night, nor what the last bit of news that happened around the world was.
Allen Stroud said:
Agreed, totally and I'll do my part.
Last edited:
The thing I noticed about the immersion thing (for online games) was that if you had admins they could enforce the RP rules and the community usually responded well.
Took a while for Allens post above to sink in but I think he was onto something when he said that during Alpha / Beta and Gamma we, the KS backers, could sort of create some unwritten rules concerning behaviour and if FD liked what we did they too could help enforce it. Once ED goes retail there maybe a huge community of like minded players who want to RP, actively encourage it, add to /ignore those who break it, and over time mold the experience we all crave. Need to +1 him ..
Last edited:
Would not be adverse to the idea.
Ironman RP-only "group" ... mmm ... interesting thought
Last edited:
Thanks folks, glad the post was useful.
I probably wouldn't.
Until you know how pervasive the immersion priority in the game is likely to be amongst players, I don't think its a good idea to separate it from others. You never know, you may find the non-roleplayers in E : D are in the minority and so a separate group is not needed. In addition, if you concentrate all the like minded players in one place, the cascade of immersive play may be hindered.
I think we shouldn't underestimate the power of this process before it begins.
One thing that can help is the access to game levers and positions of influence. If players occupy roles that can influence the game, they can use this status to encourage different types of play. However, power given in this way can also be abused.
I think its also worth bearing in mind the subjective nature of "immersion breaking" incidents. One person's problem may not be another persons and by attempting to encourage particular styles of play you can actually be encouraging elitism (no pun intended) and cliqueness.
For example, in costume fests, standards of kit are always an issue. People want everyone to look good and "make an effort", but if effort=cost, then some players lose out.
I'm unsure what this process will entail with Elite, but I do feel the nature of its current community and its involvement with the game's development, does provide us with a unique opportunity to create a high immersive type of game play.
I probably wouldn't.
Until you know how pervasive the immersion priority in the game is likely to be amongst players, I don't think its a good idea to separate it from others. You never know, you may find the non-roleplayers in E : D are in the minority and so a separate group is not needed. In addition, if you concentrate all the like minded players in one place, the cascade of immersive play may be hindered.
I think we shouldn't underestimate the power of this process before it begins.
One thing that can help is the access to game levers and positions of influence. If players occupy roles that can influence the game, they can use this status to encourage different types of play. However, power given in this way can also be abused.
I think its also worth bearing in mind the subjective nature of "immersion breaking" incidents. One person's problem may not be another persons and by attempting to encourage particular styles of play you can actually be encouraging elitism (no pun intended) and cliqueness.
For example, in costume fests, standards of kit are always an issue. People want everyone to look good and "make an effort", but if effort=cost, then some players lose out.
I'm unsure what this process will entail with Elite, but I do feel the nature of its current community and its involvement with the game's development, does provide us with a unique opportunity to create a high immersive type of game play.
Jenner
I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
As someone who typically rolls a female, I agree.
All kidding, aside, yes...voice chat is something that's anathema to proper role play. It's just not immersive to put a real (often compressed/staticy) voice to a character in a game. Far better, imho, to just type out stuff.
Of course as you say it's not as efficient for PvP and time-sensitive guild control activity, but hey? Is it a game or what? Bahhh! Get off my lawn, you kids!
As someone who typically rolls a female, I agree.
All kidding, aside, yes...voice chat is something that's anathema to proper role play. It's just not immersive to put a real (often compressed/staticy) voice to a character in a game. Far better, imho, to just type out stuff.
Agreed... one reason I never got into fleet battles in EVE, since voice chat is a necessity there, but I didn't wanna use it.
Same for me, I do not use voice chat outside of my eventual personnal group. I imagine quite a pimply teenager ask me my cargo, while his mother in the background calls for the meal ... at the table! ... Goodbye immersion
I am not a roleplayer myself. But that is because basically I have not played any games or joined guilds that made work of it. I am too casual.
So I wonder what your true roleplayers think about players needing technical assistance.
So I am in a roleplay session, trying to stay in character but I don't know how to do something. I am going to have to know e.g. to follow an order. In the end I will have to ask what button to push, is that not unavoidable?
So how is a roleplayers expected to handle that exactly? Just curious.
So I wonder what your true roleplayers think about players needing technical assistance.
So I am in a roleplay session, trying to stay in character but I don't know how to do something. I am going to have to know e.g. to follow an order. In the end I will have to ask what button to push, is that not unavoidable?
So how is a roleplayers expected to handle that exactly? Just curious.