Retrofit ship variants and the outfitting options

[Julio Montega]

Ahoy lads,
the current and planned amount of ships is quite restrictive in the choice
of a nice ship-model for a certain task, and there definitely are some
ship types performing better than the other at certain tasks.

I recon it would add some immersion, variety and motivation,
to be able to actually retrofit ships, sacrificing module slots
or a maximum module size to gain the ability to install
a bigger version of another module in a ship.

For example, by sacrificing some internal compartments,
a type 6 transport could fit a larger engine,
in order to run at higher velocities, turn faster and outrun pursuers.

Or how about a combat retrofit of the type 7 transport,
with additional armor and turrets, to serve as a weapons platform?

Would love to be able to fiddle around more with the ships,
the current outfitting options are very basic, restrictive and
uninteresting.

Any thoughts?

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

A far wider variety of modules is urgently needed. Fitting a ship has become an automatism for me.

Having that said your suggestion is a quite tough balancing act.

I'm all for making fittings interesting, but I'm thinking of the days when mo0 used to fit dual MWDs on Ravens in Eve.

 

[smsKONG]

I'd be happy with a few variants that are sold at shipyards rather than doing the fitting out myself.
We already have asp explorer; we should have the military variant available in military sectors.

Obviously it would have to be something other than just different starting modules - as you suggested larger/smaller dedicated compartments with a decrease/increase in universal compartments to balance the internal space differences.
I'm thinking FD would have to handle the variants due to the internal structural changes that might need to occur.

 

[Julio Montega]

I'd be happy with a few variants that are sold at shipyards rather than doing the fitting out myself.
We already have asp explorer; we should have the military variant available in military sectors.

Obviously it would have to be something other than just different starting modules - as you suggested larger/smaller dedicated compartments with a decrease/increase in universal compartments to balance the internal space differences.
I'm thinking FD would have to handle the variants due to the internal structural changes that might need to occur.

I wouldn't actually like the idea of introducing fixed variants of a ship, as SC does it,
it just adds the feeling of having options to opt your ships, but doesn't give you real freedom of choice doing so.

The system now is restrictive, i would love to see those restrictions removed,
adding in the ability of real ship customization and moddability.

 

[Hadron-Higgs-Boson]

The basic cookie cutter system now is not bad, its a little clumsy and hides too much of that is going on, but it serves the purpose and for a first cut its good. It is however just that IMO, a first cut.

Being able to customise ships and tune individual components, balancing x by sacrificing y, would be great. I dont think we will get there though, its the sort of thing that needs to be in very early or it becomes a constant game of buff/nerf the min/maxers - that's not always a problem so long as the buffs/nerf are few and taken care of early but its a significant development overhead.

It might be possible to lay on top of what there is a greater depth without going all the way, some degree of choice in having modules built for you, not available to buy off the shelf, but built at certain stations, possibly in return for certain materials that might only be sourced with some effort.

Being able to build out the ship loadout and even physical appearence would be a great addition.

 

[Ceekay]

Perhaps what's needed is an additional range (or two) of modules, say like a military/navy grade power plant, thrusters whatever and designate the existing equipment civilian grade, obviously they're going to have to cost more and consume more power/fuel for balance purposes.

 

[Julio Montega]

Perhaps what's needed is an additional range (or two) of modules, say like a military/navy grade power plant, thrusters whatever and designate the existing equipment civilian grade, obviously they're going to have to cost more and consume more power/fuel for balance purposes.

Just "balacing" on the cost/power requirements, as it is done now, isn't the right way to go.

In E: F2 there was a military grade engine requiring plutonium or uranium fuel
that was consumed and produced radioactive waste.
That would be a possibility.
But again, that would be creating another illusion of freedom of choice,
by just adding in more moduels,
without the ability to manipulate the sizes of current main module slots (engines / pp etc.).

 

[Snakebite]

Ahoy lads,
the current and planned amount of ships is quite restrictive in the choice
of a nice ship-model for a certain task, and there definitely are some
ship types performing better than the other at certain tasks.

I recon it would add some immersion, variety and motivation,
to be able to actually retrofit ships, sacrificing module slots
or a maximum module size to gain the ability to install
a bigger version of another module in a ship.

For example, by sacrificing some internal compartments,
a type 6 transport could fit a larger engine,
in order to run at higher velocities, turn faster and outrun pursuers.

Or how about a combat retrofit of the type 7 transport,
with additional armor and turrets, to serve as a weapons platform?

Would love to be able to fiddle around more with the ships,
the current outfitting options are very basic, restrictive and
uninteresting.

Any thoughts?

I'd like to see some 'specialist' work shops cabable of performing custom upgrades and also if they are at a pirate system perhaps being able to get dodgy illegal weapons or stolen military equipment.

I'd like to upgrade the two Class 1 mounts on my cobra for instance and would be happy to sacrifice some internal capacity or a tiny reduction in hull strength in return.

 

[Julio Montega]

I'd like to see some 'specialist' work shops cabable of performing custom upgrades and also if they are at a pirate system perhaps being able to get dodgy illegal weapons or stolen military equipment.

I'd like to upgrade the two Class 1 mounts on my cobra for instance and would be happy to sacrifice some internal capacity or a tiny reduction in hull strength in return.

Imagine a Type 7 transport with reduced cargo capacity, but increased shield strengths and additional weapons on the side, formerly cargo bays.

 

[Devil's Refugee]

Right now all ships are like a single unit. However if FD expanded this and implemented a modularised system based on the procedural engine, much like the station and ship designs in Limit Theory, then all manner of combinations could be available giving way to a much more varied Galaxy in this respect.

You would have stock ship designs, but also local and political faction variants developing over time. Some isolated systems could completely barstewardise a design to serve their local purpose only; a Cobra with Asp fins for example and an oversized cargo scoop for mining (naff example).

The old designs are great as they follow the ships of the original but remember the wilder ships of FFE/ FE2 ? Most of what we have is fairly conservative and utilitarian in nature. Would be great to offer players a higher level of customisation over decals and paintjobs.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

-- Deleted --

 

[Ceekay]

Back in the day I played Freelancer (a lot!) and also got into modding it, one of the most popular types of modding was adding new ships, however the game engine only supported 4 distinct ship classes light fighter, heavy fighter, very heavy fighter and freighter so you might well have had several hundred ships in the modded game but they tended to be similar within each class with different hull strength, more or less weapon hardpoints or cargo space, I'd like to see new ships having distinct roles and capabilities not six more Cobra variants

The biggest issue with adding loadout flexibility (which I like) is how you balance it all, Julio Montega is right balancing using cost/power requirements probably isn't the right way to go but trading cargo space for bigger thrusters, additional shields etc will produce another Python and we've all seen the issues that created, if there's one unbalanced super ship eventually everyone will end up flying it.

To have any chance of getting FD to revise their current ship infrastructure we'd need to have a solid logical framework to replace it with not a wishlist of things we'd really like (pity though!)

 

[Rubellen]

I love the idea.. Could swap the 3 large weapons on my python for Lets say 32t of cargo space. Or trade the med weapons for 2 droptanks to go exploring... You have my support op.

 

[Eleonore Nali]

To me that sounds a lot like the old FE2/FFE system where you didn't have various compartments but only one kind of "space". I don't like it because the panther clipper with indestructible shields and a plasma weapon that one-shots everything might be funny for some time, but once you think about it really isn't the best game design after all.

 

[Julio Montega]

To me that sounds a lot like the old FE2/FFE system where you didn't have various compartments but only one kind of "space". I don't like it because the panther clipper with indestructible shields and a plasma weapon that one-shots everything might be funny for some time, but once you think about it really isn't the best game design after all.

I remember the panther clipper quite well in that games,
i always had 60+ shield generators equipped, to prevent being damaged by autodocking with smaller stations,
using the docking computer
It would be lame though having that indestructible ship in here.

Please don't get me wrong.
I like the thought put into the ships,
but i personally hate being restricted in any way to
customize my ship.
I have a very special way of fitting my ship already,
but i'd love to be able to focus more on factors i personally
deem more important.

I just cannot imagine a ship of the 34th century, being not modular
or customizable at all.

The biggest issue with adding loadout flexibility (which I like) is how you balance it all, Julio Montega is right balancing using cost/power requirements probably isn't the right way to go but trading cargo space for bigger thrusters, additional shields etc will produce another Python and we've all seen the issues that created, if there's one unbalanced super ship eventually everyone will end up flying it.

To have any chance of getting FD to revise their current ship infrastructure we'd need to have a solid logical framework to replace it with not a wishlist of things we'd really like (pity though!)

Hmm thinking of ways to balance a custom build might require the devs to include a more complex
system first, as you hinted.

Heat currently is the only way of tracking a ship(not very immersive!).
Now let us say we add several more factors to the tracking mechanic, like
using an automated optical scan using cameras, you might keep your hull less
reflective to light and radiation ( an effect countered by anti-laser coating which needs to be reflective),
you could also add EM-Emissions from the sensor array, or a lighter but less effectively shielded hull (lightweigth bulkheads).

Now you could balance a thruster exceeding the maximum size of your current config,
by adding the drawback of higher heat generation, fuel consumption, more light emission
and more EM-Emission, due to higher power consumption,
and create a custom ship, with insane speed, which is easy to track.

How about it?

 

[lefty1117]

I'd like to see some 'specialist' work shops cabable of performing custom upgrades and also if they are at a pirate system perhaps being able to get dodgy illegal weapons or stolen military equipment.

I'd like to upgrade the two Class 1 mounts on my cobra for instance and would be happy to sacrifice some internal capacity or a tiny reduction in hull strength in return.

Agree with this - or if sacrificing slots isn't an option, make it exorbitantly expensive. I would love to be able to put custom upgrades on an Eagle to make it a viable fighter against larger ships.

 

[GJ51]

I've been thinking along similar lines for quite some time. It never made sense to me that there were modules available that were popular that didn't fill a size 2 slot.

I'd rather see just a total tonnage allocation for each ship and let everyone put anything they want in it in any configuration.

But then we'd have to get back to having the ships actually respond sensibly to the impacts of those configuration changes.

Hard to accomplish if ship designs don't follow a rule based framework.

F=ma

As old as Newton...

 

[Julio Montega]

I've been thinking along similar lines for quite some time. It never made sense to me that there were modules available that were popular that didn't fill a size 2 slot.

I'd rather see just a total tonnage allocation for each ship and let everyone put anything they want in it in any configuration.

But then we'd have to get back to having the ships actually respond sensibly to the impacts of those configuration changes.

Hard to accomplish if ship designs don't follow a rule based framework.

F=ma

As old as Newton...

You imagine an outfitting screen like in the old Mech Warrior titles?
If yes, i am with you!