Lets test this persistent universe and see if FD are true to their word.

[Cmdr Sharky]

CSG should probably own all stations by now if would work properly.

So your postulation is this: a small number of people working for a minority faction should be able to totally take over every station in a star system of billions of people.

I'm not so sure. I want it to be possible to influence the galaxy, but I don't want it to be trivial to dominate it. Clearly it's not "trivial", as it has taken two three months of a lot of people's work, and it hasn't happened yet mainly due to bugs. But still, I contend that saying "if it was working properly, we'd have utterly dominated an entire Federal solar system in two three months" is somewhat ambitious.

 

[orfeboy]

So your postulation is this: a small number of people working for a minority faction should be able to totally take over every station in a star system of billions of people.

I'm not so sure. I want it to be possible to influence the galaxy, but I don't want it to be trivial to dominate it. Clearly it's not "trivial", as it has taken two months of a lot of people's work, and it hasn't happened yet mainly due to bugs. But still, I contend that saying "if it was working properly, we'd have utterly dominated an entire Federal solar system in two months" is somewhat ambitious.

3 months

 

[Mauze]

Update

Crimson State Group 94.6% (-0.7%)
Lugh for Equality 3.5% (+0.7%)
Lugh Defence Force 0.9%
Silver Natural 0.1%
Dominion of Lugh 0.9%

Crimson State Group

State: None
Pending States: Boom + Lockdown -

Lugh for Equality

State: None
Pending States: Boom +

Lugh Defence Force

State: None
Pending States: Civil War (Cooldown since 07.02.2015)

Silver Natural LTD

State: None
Pending States: Civil War (cooldown since 07.02.2015)

Dominion of Lugh

State: None
Pending States: None​

 

[_Flin_]

So your postulation is this: a small number of people working for a minority faction should be able to totally take over every station in a star system of billions of people.

I'm not so sure. I want it to be possible to influence the galaxy, but I don't want it to be trivial to dominate it. Clearly it's not "trivial", as it has taken two months of a lot of people's work, and it hasn't happened yet mainly due to bugs. But still, I contend that saying "if it was working properly, we'd have utterly dominated an entire Federal solar system in two months" is somewhat ambitious.

If we had known then what we do now, all worked then as it worked now (cooldowns) and the plan had been to take over the whole system... Then CSG would own every station in the system now.

If the plan is "own every station in the system" then this can be accomplished under the right circumstances and with the right strategy.

Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. It's only relevant whether it works, and how.

Edit: FD have designed it that way, so they obviously want it that way. And with thousands of inhabited systems it doesnt matter whether one system is leaning this way or that way.

 

[Dubh]

Update

Crimson State Group 94.6% (-0.7%)
Lugh for Equality 3.5% (+0.7%)
Lugh Defence Force 0.9%
Silver Natural 0.1%
Dominion of Lugh 0.9%

Crimson State Group

State: None
Pending States: Boom + Lockdown -

Lugh for Equality

State: None
Pending States: Boom +

Lugh Defence Force

State: None
Pending States: Civil War (Cooldown since 07.02.2015)

Silver Natural LTD

State: None
Pending States: Civil War (cooldown since 07.02.2015)

Dominion of Lugh

State: None
Pending States: None​

Had a feeling we'd be down again.

"Lord, I gotta keep on movin' ....."

 

[orfeboy]

This is the key. Do you want to meet hostile players. If the purpose is to test you probably don't want to meet them...

Another more thread related question is 100% influence really required to expand to another system or not... CSG should probably own all stations by now if would work properly.

I appreciate reading this entire thread is a job in itself but testing the system is only part of what we are doing here. Creating our own background, colour and game scenario is as much the objective here as the testing.

Personally I prefer to play in open as do most others involved. I don't like the idea of hiding in solo even if it endangers my own ship. However, it is easier to judge what is actually going on in Lugh even if you can only see those who are in your own instance at any one time. It can be hard for players who might wander in to this story at this point to grasp fully what we are doing here but those who have been aware of Lugh's story up until now are fairly invested in it and want to see it through. There have been many bugs, ups and downs and umpteen frustrations but we are confident war is at hand now. FD themselves have acknowleded that we have earned it so whatever the outcome people would see it as bad form for them to deny us it now.

According to Michael we should have triggered several wars over our time and it may be the case that since we have long since passed that threshold that we would need to go backwards to trigger war as some have suggested. FD are working on this bug and hopefully it will be resolved soon but none can deny that we have done more than was required of us to trigger a war so no matter how it transpires I am in little doubt that we have qualified for any results we might get.

Most importantly I would hope that people remember that it is because of this project (and those being done by other groups) and the people who have worked on it that hopefully in the future other such efforts in this vein will run far smoother for the players involved. The players here have had to put up with all the frustrations and buggy setbacks that sent many others running to the hills grumbling. I am forever grateful to everyone involved and particularly those who have continued to support us through thick and thin, perticularly during the times when it has felt like work to do so.

It is because of these people and the hard work of the bug fixers over at FD that the metagame will hopefully run smoother for other players in the future. I prefer to look at it that way instead of moaning about how broken such and such is.

 

[Cmdr Sharky]

If we had known then what we do now, all worked then as it worked now (cooldowns) and the plan had been to take over the whole system... Then CSG would own every station in the system now.

Ah, I see, you're talking about testing the specific rules that FD have published as being "the background simulation". I was thinking more about what would be "a realistic background simulation". To be honest I didn't actually know that the rules had been revealed in such detail. They were discussed in the DDF, but not everything discussed got implemented.

 

[CMDR Generic EventHandler]

In human terms, I think of what we are doing as more of a hostile corporate takeover than anything else. It's not a revolution that the people started, it's an hostile action that we started and put the blame on the citizens of lugh. (in their heroic struggle against the oppressive federation)

What I would have liked to have seen is.

at 75% Federation sends in a battleship and patrol craft that commence interdictions against any CSG allied commander.
at 85% The Federation withdraws to avoid political fall out but declares all allied CSG pilots persona non grata in Federation space.
at 90% Lugh now controlled by CSG and Federation make peace, Allied pilots are back to neutral for federation.
at 95% Lugh declares independence, tension is reduced in adjoining systems.

Now the flip side, DOL starts gaining back influence
<75% DOL starts flipping stations causing local civil war instances
>75% Requests assistance from the federation to secure the system.
85% Federation declares system secure, any remaining allied pilots in system are wanted.
etc.

At the moment, by becoming allied with a faction you don't have any risk vs the factions you are trying to overturn.
With the forced combat inflicted at high percentages, I would expect the systems to either stay close to 100% or bounce around the 40% - 60% area.

Of course this is only what I would like to see implemented and has no relation to what is implemented by ED.

 

[orfeboy]

Had a feeling we'd be down again.

"Lord, I gotta keep on movin' ....."

I am guessing that we will see a change soon in our favour.

Why?

Well because Galnet has drawn lots of randomers. The missions structures have changed offering more missions for feeble factions to allow them the oppertunity to bounce back. I have been watching the traffic in Lugh over the past week and watched it rise to an average of about 250 ships a day. This is reducing now. Last night we had 143 visitors. LFE still own 4 stations and random trade will benifit them greatly especially since Hartsfield and Cavendish are so close to Lugh's star. As these randomers tire they will move on. Those of us here since the start have seen this happen before. We just need to weather this storm and stem the tide as best we can until then.

Galnet has published 2 of my contributions to date. The 1.2 wings expansion will be released very shortly. This all smells of the perfect recipe for war to me...

Hold fast and don't let your gaurd down. I know it feels like we are swimming upstream right now but if you can still just continue to believe...

Lugh will lead us to victory.

Lugh Lámhfhada abú!

 

[CMDR Generic EventHandler]

Ah, I see, you're talking about testing the specific rules that FD have published as being "the background simulation". I was thinking more about what would be "a realistic background simulation". To be honest I didn't actually know that the rules had been revealed in such detail. They were discussed in the DDF, but not everything discussed got implemented.

We have deduced a lot of stuff about how the background simulation works. A lot of what we have asked, "We've done X why hasn't Y happened." have been answered by MB. So we are pretty confident in knowing what we should be doing. A lot has change to the simulation since we started testing in December, a lot of bug fixes have been implemented. However as we, and the milkum guys, are the main testers for system change we've got Lugh into a state that is outside of what Frontier expected. They are looking at how to treat our edge case. All we can do is keep pushing the % and wait for the next bug fix to see what we do from there.

 

[Dubh]

Hah haaaaaah I'll be following Lugh right through the gates of hell if need be!

........I know it feels like we are swimming upstream right now but if you can still just continue to believe...
Lugh will lead us to victory.
Lugh Lámhfhada abú!

Snámh an bradán suas an sruth. Tá sé sásta!

 

[orfeboy]

Hah haaaaaah I'll be following Lugh right through the gates of hell if need be!



Snámh and bradán suas an sruth. Tá sé sásta!

Táim sásta a cloiseann go bhfuil tú i do bhradán sásta!

Lean ar aghaidh a chairde agus beidh búa againn...

 

[_Flin_]

Ah, I see, you're talking about testing the specific rules that FD have published as being "the background simulation". I was thinking more about what would be "a realistic background simulation". To be honest I didn't actually know that the rules had been revealed in such detail. They were discussed in the DDF, but not everything discussed got implemented.

Realism vs Fun is an often encountered conflict. I prefer the fun part when in doubt.

But when it comes to realism things like Cortez vs the Inca, Castro vs Batista come to mind, with a few people on one side. Or, regarding speed, the German invasion of Poland and conquering of most of Europe from 1939 to 1942. And the Allied victories from 1942 to 1945.

And for most people the Allegiance of a specific station or system doesnt make any difference at all. What does the trader care which faction he sells his stuff?

So yes, its not realistic. But if you have it in the game, you will need to have it work fast enough that it is actually fun to do.

 

[orfeboy]

Realism vs Fun is an often encountered conflict. I prefer the fun part when in doubt.

But when it comes to realism things like Cortez vs the Inca, Castro vs Batista come to mind, with a few people on one side. Or, regarding speed, the German invasion of Poland and conquering of most of Europe from 1939 to 1942. And the Allied victories from 1942 to 1945.

And for most people the Allegiance of a specific station or system doesnt make any difference at all. What does the trader care which faction he sells his stuff?

So yes, its not realistic. But if you have it in the game, you will need to have it work fast enough that it is actually fun to do.

All good points Flin. History has shown us that the amount of time required to shift the balance of power in a particular place depends for the most part on how the existing power structure is formulated. If you take England and Ireland for example and the invasion of the Normans. England was conquered in a single day at the battle of Hastings in 1066 Why? Because the government had already been centralised and simply replacing the King left a power vacuum in the kingdom. It was then simply a case of calling all the Saxon nobles to a meeting in a church and setting fire to it! Job done. Ireland however took them 400 years. Why? Too many chiefs basicly. Chop off one head and another one will rise in its place. Were the Irish somehow better at dealing with the Normans than the Saxons? Absoloutely not! But the politics were different...

Some poitical systems are easy to manipulate and overcome. Some are not. I would think a rebelling system out in distant space actually quite difficult to keep under control if its inhabitants chose not to be ruled. The resources required to keep it under the boot heel could not be maintained forever. A couple of mistakes and bad decisions is all that is required. Empires throughout history have proven this.

 

[orfeboy]

In human terms, I think of what we are doing as more of a hostile corporate takeover than anything else. It's not a revolution that the people started, it's an hostile action that we started and put the blame on the citizens of lugh. (in their heroic struggle against the oppressive federation)

What I would have liked to have seen is.

at 75% Federation sends in a battleship and patrol craft that commence interdictions against any CSG allied commander.
at 85% The Federation withdraws to avoid political fall out but declares all allied CSG pilots persona non grata in Federation space.
at 90% Lugh now controlled by CSG and Federation make peace, Allied pilots are back to neutral for federation.
at 95% Lugh declares independence, tension is reduced in adjoining systems.

Now the flip side, DOL starts gaining back influence
<75% DOL starts flipping stations causing local civil war instances
>75% Requests assistance from the federation to secure the system.
85% Federation declares system secure, any remaining allied pilots in system are wanted.
etc.

At the moment, by becoming allied with a faction you don't have any risk vs the factions you are trying to overturn.
With the forced combat inflicted at high percentages, I would expect the systems to either stay close to 100% or bounce around the 40% - 60% area.

Of course this is only what I would like to see implemented and has no relation to what is implemented by ED.

That is a fair argument but like lots of things in ED nothing is made completely clear. This is one of my issues with the game at present. You get very little information about what is really going on on the stations or planets themselves. The missions are written in a way that certainly gives you the impression that there is a war. They constantly refer to 'supporting the war' and 'feeding the war'. I even handed over 4,000,000 of my own cash to 'support the war'. I think Mauze might have handed over even more! I always wondered did FD add those missions for their own amusment just to see if we would do it?

Anyway, the missions seem to be on a loop and I have compared them to a deck of cards in conversations with Roybe many times where cards are drawn from a pack and the deck goes round and round. What I would really like to see would be different 'moods' in systems where different mission card decks are used depending on the political climate in a system. I would like to see particular thresholds like lockdown allowing you to be able to take direct military action against the feds and incite rebellion etc.

I have said it many times before that the system we have now is great but could be truly brilliant with a little more tweaking. I think your ideas for the factions above are excellent by the way and are exactly the sort of thing the game needs going into the future. Providing the guys in FD can squash all the current bugs, I really hope time gets devoted to expanding on what we already have in this area in the future. But more direct involvement such as destroying checkpoints where you can actually see reactions from the game itself taking place in reaction to these actions are needed to really bring it to life. With this in place IMO the metagame could be fantastic.

 

[ndorrin1]

Lugh is a dead God. Killed after killing Cermait by his sons in vengence. If you are indeed fighting in his name, you fight for a corpse boys. Lugh died and like him you will all burn in the coming battle.
Once I have my warship and war comes I will see you on the battlefield! I will rally, not for the federation, not for Lugh, but for death and glory!
I will pillage your ships, and make what is yours mine, for I am Viking in blood, and I will show you war! Mwahahaha.

Now back to trading wildly towards a python! But soon! SOON I SAY!

 

[orfeboy]

Lugh is a dead God. Killed after killing Cermait by his sons in vengence. If you are indeed fighting in his name, you fight for a corpse boys. Lugh died and like him you will all burn in the coming battle.
Once I have my warship and war comes I will see you on the battlefield! I will rally, not for the federation, not for Lugh, but for death and glory!
I will pillage your ships, and make what is yours mine, for I am Viking in blood, and I will show you war! Mwahahaha.

Now back to trading wildly towards a python! But soon! SOON I SAY!

Yeah, we dealt with the vikings before, we can do it again...

Oh, and please bring your warship along. I've got a Sidewinder waiting for it. We will enjoy listening to you weep after all your wild trading...

 

[sirius42]

Signing off. Did about 2.5 million profit and about 7 missions. We have a new big ship in the house . Just bought a shiny new Type 7 with 216 tonnes cargo space. Amazing the earning power of that thing!

Oh, and I still have my nifty sidewinder and Asp

Grats !

Yes its a nice ship and i makes a huge difference in profit.


And by the way if some of you dont know this trade route yet and need some alternation to the Lugh Berlasuk round trip.

I am trading now with Lu Velorum. Computer Components to Miletus Station and Beryllium back to Knight Dock. Gives me slightly more profit and Miletus Station is only 8Ls away from the star. The only disadvantage is Lu Velorum is 26 LY away from Lugh so you need a proper jump range and pay a bit more of fuel.

 

[Cmdr Sharky]

Ní féidir leis an marbh bás

(eventually someone's going to hit us on the head with the English-language-only policy, but it's just a bit of fun so hopefully no-one will take offence)

 

[orfeboy]

Ní féidir leis an marbh bás

Ha ha!

Ana mhaith!