+rep and hear, hear!
You've managed to articulate everything I find wrong with this idea. Thank you.
It would definitely turn Exploration into something extremely non-enjoyable for the reasons you outlined above.
What i would like to change on Exploration and why
- Thread starter Dwarden
- Start date
+rep and hear, hear!
You've managed to articulate everything I find wrong with this idea. Thank you.
It would definitely turn Exploration into something extremely non-enjoyable for the reasons you outlined above.
so, you trying to claim exploration was boring, waste of time and not interesting w/o the advanced scanner ?
in that case let's remove the basic and intermediate scanners because obviously they were waste of game resources and you skipped them anyway ...
lets introduce automatic trade autopilot which does all trade route search, buy,fly and sell for you too
in that case let's remove the basic and intermediate scanners because obviously they were waste of game resources and you skipped them anyway ...
lets introduce automatic trade autopilot which does all trade route search, buy,fly and sell for you too
Current scanners are fine with me. As far as I can tell, yes you have to surface scan to get credit. Didn't have one, came back to turn in data, and no vanity hits..I was clearly 1st one out there. After getting one, had hundreds of hits. But knowing what you have to scan helps.
And some of us do work for a living so lets make the game interesting without added arduous tasks.
And some of us do work for a living so lets make the game interesting without added arduous tasks.
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so, you trying to claim exploration was boring, waste of time and not interesting w/o the advanced scanner ?
in that case let's remove the basic and intermediate scanners because obviously they were waste of game resources and you skipped them anyway ...
lets introduce automatic trade autopilot which does all trade route search, buy,fly and sell for you too
BZZZT! False analogy is false
You can't compare trading game play with exploration - well you can try, but like your attempt, it fails.
The fact is that the basic and intermediate scanners are there for the game player to choose how they're going to play. "Blaze your own trail" seems to be the motto of the game, so if someone decides to go exploring and wants to make things more interesting for them by choosing to use those other modules, then good for them and the choice is theirs.
If other explorers are on a "5 Year Mission", they want to go exploring the galaxy, not be stuck in the same region of space slowly examining each and every system body to see if it was worth exploring or not - which would be the end result of your awful suggestion. Your ideas would make exploration worse, not better. There are 400 billion stars in the galaxy, and you would have us scanning each and every single body within each star system. How much more awful do you want to make the game? Sometimes, you need to just accept that something you've thought up really wasn't such a great idea after all.
Like the previous poster said; Nope. Nope nope nope.
BZZZT! False analogy is false
You can't compare trading game play with exploration - well you can try, but like your attempt, it fails.
The fact is that the basic and intermediate scanners are there for the game player to choose how they're going to play. "Blaze your own trail" seems to be the motto of the game, so if someone decides to go exploring and wants to make things more interesting for them by choosing to use those other modules, then good for them and the choice is theirs.
If other explorers are on a "5 Year Mission", they want to go exploring the galaxy, not be stuck in the same region of space slowly examining each and every system body to see if it was worth exploring or not - which would be the end result of your awful suggestion. Your ideas would make exploration worse, not better. There are 400 billion stars in the galaxy, and you would have us scanning each and every single body within each star system. How much more awful do you want to make the game? Sometimes, you need to just accept that something you've thought up really wasn't such a great idea after all.
Like the previous poster said; Nope. Nope nope nope.
I think you totally misunderstood how those scanners works,
because you still NEED (if you want claim the discovery) to scan each body (direct scan) even with INFINITE advanced scanner right now ...
+
what I proposed was more 'classes' of scanners with variety on pricing, ranges and the best group has advanced vectoring info
(so the distant neutron star needs some interaction e.g. fly a lil closer)
+
range of 5 million LS covers like 98% of star systems already (maybe even more depends what FD setup as threshold
the software upgrades (3rd paragraph in 1st post) are actually aimed on people like you to spend less time on scanning while keeping it interesting enough)
the turreted scanner is again aimed on making it more seamless while balancing it with cost of utility mount
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Er, no, I think you are confused.
You do NOT have to scan each and every single body at the moment. The ADS discovers them all and if you report back to base with the data - you get first discovery.
The real money comes from performing a DETAILED scan on each body - as in, go to within scanner range of system body, wait until detailed scan is finished.
Detailed scanning and discovery scanning are two different things entirely.
Have you done much Exploration at all? I'm not being funny here, it just looks like you haven't actually went out for a week and just played explorer?
Okay, extrapolation of technical advancement not allowed, let's fall back on plain old logic!
(Hat tip to Mr. Nimoy) This is going to sound snarky, don't get offended please.Does the Advanced Discovery Scanner remove the game play mechanic of flying around and finding stuff out the window? No. Logical proof: Can you fly around and find stuff out the window without using the ADS? Yes. Therefore there is no logical argument that the ADS removes game play.
Genar-Hofoen has already pointed out how the analogies don't match up with your example, but I'll try as well by lining up the analogies correctly instead. It gets kind of long, so I'll dump it in a spoiler:
All of the game play styles have five basic parts: Find Objective, Travel to Objective, Locate Objective, Obtain Objective, Return Objective
Find Objective
Travel to Objective
Locate Objective
Obtain Objective
Return Objective
Find Objective
This the point where you receive your mission, your marching instructions, or just decide what to do all by your lonesome.
Combat - Missions obviously are a part of this, combat zones, trolling nav beacons/rings for bounties, or waiting for likely cargo haulers for pirating.
Trade - Missions again, finding a ring system to mine, or you simply land at a station to find they've got high demand on one commodity and high supply on another and your objective becomes to find another station to pair it with.
Exploration - You pick an unexplored star. All of them have already been spotted for you, just pick one.
Combat - Missions obviously are a part of this, combat zones, trolling nav beacons/rings for bounties, or waiting for likely cargo haulers for pirating.
Trade - Missions again, finding a ring system to mine, or you simply land at a station to find they've got high demand on one commodity and high supply on another and your objective becomes to find another station to pair it with.
Exploration - You pick an unexplored star. All of them have already been spotted for you, just pick one.
Travel to Objective
This should be self-explanatory, but this is still in a system sense.
Combat - Simple enough, jump to the system you plan to troll for ships to blow up.
Trade - Simple for missions or mining. Takes a bit of time if you're looking for a trade pair without using 3rd party stuff.
Exploration - The most difficult part of exploration is just getting there and back in one piece. If you've explored beyond a 1000Ly, you understand this.
Combat - Simple enough, jump to the system you plan to troll for ships to blow up.
Trade - Simple for missions or mining. Takes a bit of time if you're looking for a trade pair without using 3rd party stuff.
Exploration - The most difficult part of exploration is just getting there and back in one piece. If you've explored beyond a 1000Ly, you understand this.
Locate Objective
Now that you've reached where your objective is likely to be, you must find it.
Combat - Find the USS, a mark, or a likely wanted ship.
Trade - Find the rock you want to mine, or the perfect pair for your first station.
Exploration - Use a Discovery Scanner to find the stellar bodies orbiting the star you picked. This is also the point where you can use visual parallax to find things manually instead of using the ADS.
Combat - Find the USS, a mark, or a likely wanted ship.
Trade - Find the rock you want to mine, or the perfect pair for your first station.
Exploration - Use a Discovery Scanner to find the stellar bodies orbiting the star you picked. This is also the point where you can use visual parallax to find things manually instead of using the ADS.
Obtain Objective
Self-explanatory.
Combat - Get the bounty, complete the mission, collect the cargo.
Trade - Collect the mining chunks, fill up your first load of commodities.
Exploration - Detailed Surface Scan the stellar bodies you want to.
Combat - Get the bounty, complete the mission, collect the cargo.
Trade - Collect the mining chunks, fill up your first load of commodities.
Exploration - Detailed Surface Scan the stellar bodies you want to.
Return Objective
The return trip, or cashing in.
Combat - Return the bounties to the appropriate authorities, turn in the mission, hit the black market.
Trade - Sell off the mined material, or complete your commodities loop.
Exploration - Fly all the way back home.
Combat - Return the bounties to the appropriate authorities, turn in the mission, hit the black market.
Trade - Sell off the mined material, or complete your commodities loop.
Exploration - Fly all the way back home.
Long of it short, in the analogy the ADS fits more in line with the current third party programs that find ideal trades, or a combat scanner that auto-locks on someone that is wanted. It is not an "I-Win" button for exploration.
What it comes down to is what do you enjoy? Do you enjoy watching the stars through your window and tracking down the ones that move differently in this game? Good for you! It is a game, enjoy it.
Okay, extrapolation of technical advancement not allowed, let's fall back on plain old logic!
Does the Advanced Discovery Scanner remove the game play mechanic of flying around and finding stuff out the window? No. Logical proof: Can you fly around and find stuff out the window without using the ADS? Yes. Therefore there is no logical argument that the ADS removes game play.
Genar-Hofoen has already pointed out how the analogies don't match up with your example, but I'll try as well by lining up the analogies correctly instead. It gets kind of long, so I'll dump it in a spoiler:
All of the game play styles have five basic parts: Find Objective, Travel to Objective, Locate Objective, Obtain Objective, Return Objective
Find ObjectiveThis the point where you receive your mission, your marching instructions, or just decide what to do all by your lonesome.
Combat - Missions obviously are a part of this, combat zones, trolling nav beacons/rings for bounties, or waiting for likely cargo haulers for pirating.
Trade - Missions again, finding a ring system to mine, or you simply land at a station to find they've got high demand on one commodity and high supply on another and your objective becomes to find another station to pair it with.
Exploration - You pick an unexplored star. All of them have already been spotted for you, just pick one.
Travel to ObjectiveThis should be self-explanatory, but this is still in a system sense.
Combat - Simple enough, jump to the system you plan to troll for ships to blow up.
Trade - Simple for missions or mining. Takes a bit of time if you're looking for a trade pair without using 3rd party stuff.
Exploration - The most difficult part of exploration is just getting there and back in one piece. If you've explored beyond a 1000Ly, you understand this.
Locate ObjectiveNow that you've reached where your objective is likely to be, you must find it.
Combat - Find the USS, a mark, or a likely wanted ship.
Trade - Find the rock you want to mine, or the perfect pair for your first station.
Exploration - Use a Discovery Scanner to find the stellar bodies orbiting the star you picked. This is also the point where you can use visual parallax to find things manually instead of using the ADS.
Obtain ObjectiveSelf-explanatory.
Combat - Get the bounty, complete the mission, collect the cargo.
Trade - Collect the mining chunks, fill up your first load of commodities.
Exploration - Detailed Surface Scan the stellar bodies you want to.
Return ObjectiveThe return trip, or cashing in.
Combat - Return the bounties to the appropriate authorities, turn in the mission, hit the black market.
Trade - Sell off the mined material, or complete your commodities loop.
Exploration - Fly all the way back home.
Long of it short, in the analogy the ADS fits more in line with the current third party programs that find ideal trades, or a combat scanner that auto-locks on someone that is wanted. It is not an "I-Win" button for exploration.
What it comes down to is what do you enjoy? Do you enjoy watching the stars through your window and tracking down the ones that move differently in this game? Good for you! It is a game, enjoy it.
Once again a perfect post.
I see what the problem is.
The problem is people distinguishing what each type of scanners do...
Basic / Intermediate / Advanced Discovery Scanners : Ship systems which perform the function of discovering the existence (if any) of bodies within star systems - including the stars themselves.
Basic / Detailed Surface Scanners : Ship systems which perform the function of scanning individual bodies within a star system, i.e. Surveying the bodies themselves for their scientific data.
You cannot perform a basic or detailed surface scan of a body, if you have not Discovered its existence in the first place. Try doing it without ANY Discovery Scanner in your ship. You can't.
Ergo : First Discovered By, as is in the game, is performed by the three Discovery Scanners. It is not performed by the surface scanners.
I've just had a heated argument on IRC about this, and am dismayed that a few folk on there cannot see this.
A lot of your ideas are similar to ideas I've been churning on. Specifically, that the Sensors of larger ships are heavier and bulkier for no gain in function. Therefore, why not have the idea of Sensors be replaced with Avionics?
Avionics include Sensors, exactly as current. However, larger Avionics modules would have spaces for upgrade modules, much like what you've listed.
Avionics include Sensors, exactly as current. However, larger Avionics modules would have spaces for upgrade modules, much like what you've listed.
I edited and adjusted the ticket (shuffled the order too with better organization and style)
to accommodate for critic from Genar-Hofoen and Rekal because they have valid point (to degree)
(note: the best scanners aren't removing what you can now do with ADS, so let's not skip the other ideas just due to finite vs infinite range argument)
also realize I'm not trying to merge Discovery Scanners and Surface Scanners (in fact I would prefer them stay separate)
btw. it seems the forum software is unable to keep spaces, tabs and empty lines
so it's really hard to reach readable styling
to accommodate for critic from Genar-Hofoen and Rekal because they have valid point (to degree)
(note: the best scanners aren't removing what you can now do with ADS, so let's not skip the other ideas just due to finite vs infinite range argument)
also realize I'm not trying to merge Discovery Scanners and Surface Scanners (in fact I would prefer them stay separate)
btw. it seems the forum software is unable to keep spaces, tabs and empty lines
so it's really hard to reach readable styling
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Okay, let's give these modified ideas some closer examination...
Okay. You haven't mentioned in your idea, whether or not these software updates can be installed all at the same time within their appropriate scanner modules.
A) Let's assume that they can all be installed at once...
For the Detailed Surface Scanner:
1) Why would I choose not to install all software updates at once in the modules?
2) What is the point of software updates? What things would it add to the game play?
3) What would be the point in only having the Lifeform Surface Scan software, but not the Radiation Surface scan , Double Surface Scan, or Moon-group scan?
Why would anyone go on a "5 Year Mission" with only one of the software updates?
For the Minor Objects Scanner :
1) Again, what's the point in having individual software updates that only adds specific functionality to that module?
2) Why would an Explorer choose to only install 1 or the other software updates, and not install all of them at once?
Conclusion : There is no point to having a concept of "software updates" to exploration modules. It is overcomplicating things for no apparently logical or good reason. It just doesn't make any kind of in-game sense to me. If I purchase a module that says "Discovery Scanner", I'm expecting it - by default - to have all those capabilities you mention above. I don't expect to have to then load up "software to scan a planet", "software to scan an asteroid", "software to scan a thargoid's underwear" etc. That is going to make things tedious to the point where I won't play the game any more, and to recommend to others that they don't bother, because you have to spend X amount of time figuring out what software you want to load into some module or other - oh and spend another X amount of time looking for the "thargoid underwear scanning software", because it's not sold in any of the stations for X LY around you. Oh and how much does the software cost? I don't have enough cash to do that - better grind some credits for X game time hours.
B) Let's assume that you can only load one or two software items at a time...
1) So I can detect life forms on a planet, but I can't measure radiation levels?
2) So I can detect planets, but oops! I forgot to load the asteroid detection software, and I'm a gazillion LY from the nearest station which sells it?
Conclusion : There is no point to having a concept of "software updates" to exploration modules. It is overcomplicating things for no apparently logical or good reason. It just doesn't make any kind of in-game sense to me.
Believe it or not, I actually agree with this on every point.
And this is where I completely disagree with you.
1) The Advanced Discovery Scanner is not "infinite range" as such. Its range is within the star system you are in. This is not a semantic thing, but words are important and you should get your definitions straight.
2) The Advanced Discovery Scanner is not cheap. Especially to those casual gamers like me who can only spend an hour or two per day on the game. Three or four if I'm really lucky, which isn't often.
3) You are approaching your proposal from the premise that the Advanced Discovery Scanner is a "cheat". This is just plainly wrong. Others have already pointed out to you that even in 2015, we can discover star systems merely by pointing a telescope at the skies. In the 3300's, we can use hyperspace technology to travel LY from one star system to another. We can warp spacetime to effectively travel faster than light within a solar system. Why can't the ADS utilise this technology to be able to detect gravitational wells from planetary bodies within a solar system? Why is this any more of a "cheat" than jumping from LHS 3447 to Eravate in a matter of seconds?
4) Tripling the amount of scanners? It just doesn't make any sense. I want to go on a "5 Year Mission". Now I have to install all these additional scanning modules. I have to then figure out what software to load, if I can afford it, and so on and so forth.
Do I have to also do a separate scan to discover planets? ( *click* HORN!)
Do I have to also do a separate scan to discover minor objects? ( *click* HORN! )
Stars? ( *click* HORN!)
Conclusion : Your "cheat" premise is bad, and wrong, and your house of cards falls down on that premise.
I have dealt with your software upgrades proposal above. On the contrary, the sheer pointlessness of software upgrades as you propose, overcomplicates the game play, and the only effect of which will be to render it even more tedious than you believe.
I see you are also using the word "overabuse" : again this is based on your false premise that the ADS is in any way a "cheat", which quite frankly is absolutely not the case.
Exploration as currently in the game, is already an involving and rewarding experiance.
I refer you to Rekal's excellent post which details Exploration game play compared to the other roles within the game....
In other words : Exploration as it stands is an involved, fulfilling, and rewarding in-game role.
Conclusion : your "cheat" premise is utterly wrong, and your proposals to introduce more modules with varying software upgrades does NOT make in-game sense and would remove pleasure from playing an Explorer role. The current Exploration role is already a rewarding in-game experience.
This is a Straw Man argument in support of your module proposals which are based on some false "cheating" or "overabuse" premises, which I have detailed why those premises are wrong, above.
Final conclusions:
1) Your arguments for additional modules and various software updates are based on a false "cheating" premise, and would make Exploration WAY more tedious than you believe.
2) Exploration as it currently stands is already an enjoyable and fulfilling in-game experience. As time wears on, other aspects to Exploration will add to and improve the experience. (e.g. Planetary landings and so on).
3) I completely agree with your "Rewards" proposals.
Regards.
Okay. You haven't mentioned in your idea, whether or not these software updates can be installed all at the same time within their appropriate scanner modules.
A) Let's assume that they can all be installed at once...
For the Detailed Surface Scanner:
1) Why would I choose not to install all software updates at once in the modules?
2) What is the point of software updates? What things would it add to the game play?
3) What would be the point in only having the Lifeform Surface Scan software, but not the Radiation Surface scan , Double Surface Scan, or Moon-group scan?
Why would anyone go on a "5 Year Mission" with only one of the software updates?
For the Minor Objects Scanner :
1) Again, what's the point in having individual software updates that only adds specific functionality to that module?
2) Why would an Explorer choose to only install 1 or the other software updates, and not install all of them at once?
Conclusion : There is no point to having a concept of "software updates" to exploration modules. It is overcomplicating things for no apparently logical or good reason. It just doesn't make any kind of in-game sense to me. If I purchase a module that says "Discovery Scanner", I'm expecting it - by default - to have all those capabilities you mention above. I don't expect to have to then load up "software to scan a planet", "software to scan an asteroid", "software to scan a thargoid's underwear" etc. That is going to make things tedious to the point where I won't play the game any more, and to recommend to others that they don't bother, because you have to spend X amount of time figuring out what software you want to load into some module or other - oh and spend another X amount of time looking for the "thargoid underwear scanning software", because it's not sold in any of the stations for X LY around you. Oh and how much does the software cost? I don't have enough cash to do that - better grind some credits for X game time hours.
B) Let's assume that you can only load one or two software items at a time...
1) So I can detect life forms on a planet, but I can't measure radiation levels?
2) So I can detect planets, but oops! I forgot to load the asteroid detection software, and I'm a gazillion LY from the nearest station which sells it?
Conclusion : There is no point to having a concept of "software updates" to exploration modules. It is overcomplicating things for no apparently logical or good reason. It just doesn't make any kind of in-game sense to me.
Believe it or not, I actually agree with this on every point.
And this is where I completely disagree with you.
1) The Advanced Discovery Scanner is not "infinite range" as such. Its range is within the star system you are in. This is not a semantic thing, but words are important and you should get your definitions straight.
2) The Advanced Discovery Scanner is not cheap. Especially to those casual gamers like me who can only spend an hour or two per day on the game. Three or four if I'm really lucky, which isn't often.
3) You are approaching your proposal from the premise that the Advanced Discovery Scanner is a "cheat". This is just plainly wrong. Others have already pointed out to you that even in 2015, we can discover star systems merely by pointing a telescope at the skies. In the 3300's, we can use hyperspace technology to travel LY from one star system to another. We can warp spacetime to effectively travel faster than light within a solar system. Why can't the ADS utilise this technology to be able to detect gravitational wells from planetary bodies within a solar system? Why is this any more of a "cheat" than jumping from LHS 3447 to Eravate in a matter of seconds?
4) Tripling the amount of scanners? It just doesn't make any sense. I want to go on a "5 Year Mission". Now I have to install all these additional scanning modules. I have to then figure out what software to load, if I can afford it, and so on and so forth.
Do I have to also do a separate scan to discover planets? ( *click* HORN!)
Do I have to also do a separate scan to discover minor objects? ( *click* HORN! )
Stars? ( *click* HORN!)
Conclusion : Your "cheat" premise is bad, and wrong, and your house of cards falls down on that premise.
I have dealt with your software upgrades proposal above. On the contrary, the sheer pointlessness of software upgrades as you propose, overcomplicates the game play, and the only effect of which will be to render it even more tedious than you believe.
I see you are also using the word "overabuse" : again this is based on your false premise that the ADS is in any way a "cheat", which quite frankly is absolutely not the case.
Exploration as currently in the game, is already an involving and rewarding experiance.
I refer you to Rekal's excellent post which details Exploration game play compared to the other roles within the game....
In other words : Exploration as it stands is an involved, fulfilling, and rewarding in-game role.
Conclusion : your "cheat" premise is utterly wrong, and your proposals to introduce more modules with varying software upgrades does NOT make in-game sense and would remove pleasure from playing an Explorer role. The current Exploration role is already a rewarding in-game experience.
This is a Straw Man argument in support of your module proposals which are based on some false "cheating" or "overabuse" premises, which I have detailed why those premises are wrong, above.
Final conclusions:
1) Your arguments for additional modules and various software updates are based on a false "cheating" premise, and would make Exploration WAY more tedious than you believe.
2) Exploration as it currently stands is already an enjoyable and fulfilling in-game experience. As time wears on, other aspects to Exploration will add to and improve the experience. (e.g. Planetary landings and so on).
3) I completely agree with your "Rewards" proposals.
Regards.
i have an idea on this.
i think its self explanatory. the option "saved routes" opens a submenu with 3 (or more) routes, so you select them like a station. actually it should just save the system you have selected as your goal and if you leave the route it should just recalculate it. its about saving the goal and not having to redo it over and over again.
if that uses too much ressources then for the love of god just save the goal system. add another line after "selected location" so we can jump to that system in the galaxy map and redo the route.
@GenarHofonen : Software upgrades are enhancements / utility slots for Scanners ... logically can be combined concurrently ...
also the more cheaper scanner is the less upgrades possible to use simultaneously ... (similar like with e.g. ships vs modules)
please think about the scanner 'software' upgrades in same way as you upgrading ship, which gives you more slots ...
so, with it you can buy new better scanner which gives you more 'slots' to install some new software improvements
and yes, atm. ADS range is INFINITE within star system instance , so push button, 3s later reveal everything in system
(and because star systems do not overlap there is no infinite scan in terms of revealing anything in star system next-to-actual-one)
also you completely misunderstand the upgrade suggestions,
it's like ask, why we have 8 quality classes of equipment per each tier or multiple ships or different types of guns
so equipment with 0I to 0A, 1I to 1A, 2I to 2A, 3I to 3A, 4I to 4A, 5I to 5A, 6I to 6A etc.
(remember procedural equipment generation is work in progress already)
what I propose is improvements to existing status , which is on cost (money, installation) but it offers progress ...
also the more cheaper scanner is the less upgrades possible to use simultaneously ... (similar like with e.g. ships vs modules)
please think about the scanner 'software' upgrades in same way as you upgrading ship, which gives you more slots ...
so, with it you can buy new better scanner which gives you more 'slots' to install some new software improvements
and yes, atm. ADS range is INFINITE within star system instance , so push button, 3s later reveal everything in system
(and because star systems do not overlap there is no infinite scan in terms of revealing anything in star system next-to-actual-one)
also you completely misunderstand the upgrade suggestions,
it's like ask, why we have 8 quality classes of equipment per each tier or multiple ships or different types of guns
so equipment with 0I to 0A, 1I to 1A, 2I to 2A, 3I to 3A, 4I to 4A, 5I to 5A, 6I to 6A etc.
(remember procedural equipment generation is work in progress already)
what I propose is improvements to existing status , which is on cost (money, installation) but it offers progress ...
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Genar-Hofoen made some valid points and I'd like to share my thoughts as well.
Minor objects, obviously, are not currently in game. It will be amazing when they start to add all the procedural detail that they can with these objects, and then give us an orrery system view for us to see it all. (This is a mock up of an orrery view made earlier in Elite: Dangerous' development)
What you're proposing would limit that new content to people who purchase these Discovery Scanner upgrades. I would be immensely disappointed in that, not because I'd have to go shopping, but because I'd have to go back to civilization to actually find a place to shop! Some people like me have already left on our "5 year voyage" When I left, I left with every tool available to me at the time on January 2nd. I crossed the galactic core one 30Ly jump at a time before 1.1 because that was the only way to do it. If they add in comets and other content that I cannot see unless I go back home I would be out of luck. I took this screen shot a moment ago. I'm a long way from home.
You used the example of module ratings I through A, and while that seems logical at first it falls a part on inspection. Rating E and rating A shield generators both do the same thing--protect the ship. The difference between the two is not what they do but how well they do it. If the rating A shield generators not only protected the ship better, but also made waffles it wouldn't just be a shield generator any more. (Yes, an absurd example but the point is illustrated) Shield Cells, Cargo Holds, Auto-Field Maintenance Units, Frame Shift Interdictors? All of these modules have a clear job and the rating indicates how well they do it. Discovery Scanners currently fall into the same upgrade pattern. The basic Discovery Scanner is cheap, but with a little more effort it can find everything the Advanced Discovery Scanner can find.
The Detailed Surface Scanner updates seem to be unnecessary in their current form. Life form, and radiation scanning? Wouldn't this be better as part of the Level 2 or Level 3 scans when planetary landings are assumed to be enabled? I don't see how these would change current exploration any or make it more involved. Are you suggesting that if someone were to have the life form scanner they would get a higher payout? You already suggested multiplying the planets with life payout by six times.
The other upgrades Double Scan, Largest Mass, Moon Group don't really make sense. How could scanning one object give me details about another? Moon group seems like it's just an auto targeting turret scanner which you've already suggested as well, so really adding some sort of turret scanner would make these three updates unnecessary. Auto-scanning anything 'unexplored' in range would be great.
The Scanner Precision Updates were not explained at all, from the text I can't tell if that is the cost or if it is a range increase. Range increase would be amazing, but flat increases like that would mean barely any travel would be required to scan the heart of the system which is typically the most lucrative. An upgrade like that with a turreted scanner would mean jump to a system, pop off the ADS and just sit there while everything nearby is scanned. I don't think that would be an improvement.
I enjoy the game and it's obvious you do as well from your enthusiasm. I don't think these ideas will gain much traction though.
Minor objects, obviously, are not currently in game. It will be amazing when they start to add all the procedural detail that they can with these objects, and then give us an orrery system view for us to see it all. (This is a mock up of an orrery view made earlier in Elite: Dangerous' development)
What you're proposing would limit that new content to people who purchase these Discovery Scanner upgrades. I would be immensely disappointed in that, not because I'd have to go shopping, but because I'd have to go back to civilization to actually find a place to shop! Some people like me have already left on our "5 year voyage" When I left, I left with every tool available to me at the time on January 2nd. I crossed the galactic core one 30Ly jump at a time before 1.1 because that was the only way to do it. If they add in comets and other content that I cannot see unless I go back home I would be out of luck. I took this screen shot a moment ago. I'm a long way from home.
You used the example of module ratings I through A, and while that seems logical at first it falls a part on inspection. Rating E and rating A shield generators both do the same thing--protect the ship. The difference between the two is not what they do but how well they do it. If the rating A shield generators not only protected the ship better, but also made waffles it wouldn't just be a shield generator any more. (Yes, an absurd example
but the point is illustrated) Shield Cells, Cargo Holds, Auto-Field Maintenance Units, Frame Shift Interdictors? All of these modules have a clear job and the rating indicates how well they do it. Discovery Scanners currently fall into the same upgrade pattern. The basic Discovery Scanner is cheap, but with a little more effort it can find everything the Advanced Discovery Scanner can find.The Detailed Surface Scanner updates seem to be unnecessary in their current form. Life form, and radiation scanning? Wouldn't this be better as part of the Level 2 or Level 3 scans when planetary landings are assumed to be enabled? I don't see how these would change current exploration any or make it more involved. Are you suggesting that if someone were to have the life form scanner they would get a higher payout? You already suggested multiplying the planets with life payout by six times.
The other upgrades Double Scan, Largest Mass, Moon Group don't really make sense. How could scanning one object give me details about another? Moon group seems like it's just an auto targeting turret scanner which you've already suggested as well, so really adding some sort of turret scanner would make these three updates unnecessary. Auto-scanning anything 'unexplored' in range would be great.
The Scanner Precision Updates were not explained at all, from the text I can't tell if that is the cost or if it is a range increase. Range increase would be amazing, but flat increases like that would mean barely any travel would be required to scan the heart of the system which is typically the most lucrative. An upgrade like that with a turreted scanner would mean jump to a system, pop off the ADS and just sit there while everything nearby is scanned. I don't think that would be an improvement.
I enjoy the game and it's obvious you do as well from your enthusiasm. I don't think these ideas will gain much traction though.
Actually I noticed in 1.2 beta FDEV have already bunged your first idea in (the top picture). The route thing in the second picture would also be good. Have some +rep.
we can't detect them reliably ...
what you get with advanced scanner is 100% reliable reveal everything in the system by single click and 3s wait time
anyway , let's avoid the fight about the scanners ~change because that wasn't primary aim of the ticket
I mainly wanted to introduce more tiers into the scanners where the best most expensive ones would be alike or match the actual advanced one ...
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I really like it, I would love to have ability to save route and then do 'spiral' search around the saved route while slowly moving toward the target
Obviously that was not my argument, but if that was the only thing you took away from it it seems you're a bit closed minded about your ideas. (And need a little help on the reading comprehension side of things) If you can't stand to have your ideas critiqued, don't post them. I've tried polite and encouraging in my previous posts, today I'm going to be blunt and maybe a bit snarky in this one.
The paragraph about how far away I was stated the argument in the first line, then explained how and why I personally would be disappointed if it was implemented as you suggested. Ask yourself this question; When they add comets to the game, will you be able to look out the window and see them? If yes, you do not need another scanner. If no, you're blocking out a large part of the player base from even witnessing this new content. No company in their right mind would block out players like that for no reason. A suggestion that has no credible reason to be implemented is a bad idea.
You completely ignored the point about how your upgrade scheme didn't match the current module upgrade system. /s Using some of your ideas, why not add weapon software updates too? You know, if you shot at one target, the weapon automatically shoots at the next highest threat too? Wouldn't that be great? /s A suggestion that has no credible reason to be implemented is a bad idea.
Except...they can detect them reliably. Every extrasolar planet that has been confirmed to be a planet can be confirmed as a planet, that's 100% reliability right there. I understand that's not what you meant, but that is is what you said. They can pin point their orbital times when they're spotted (Discovery Scanner stuff), and some they've even figured out the composition of their atmosphere! (the realm of the Detailed Surface Scanner from Earth) How many planets in our Solar system are still undiscovered? Pluto orbits nearly 20,000 Ls from the Sun, according to your tiered system Clyde Tombaugh would have had to buy a million credit Wide Discovery Scanner before he could claim credit for discovering it.
Which is why you've given up the argument about Discovery Scanners. I wouldn't really care one way or the other about adding additional tiers of Discovery Scanner. The Basic is 500Ls, Intermediate 10,000Ls and Advanced is entire system right now, so adding some increments between those points wouldn't bother me a bit. What you're actually suggesting can only be defined as a nerf to the Advanced Discovery Scanner. Please stop trying to call it anything else, you've already made it obvious you think it's a cheat and you want it 'fixed'
The rest of your ideas are about making more money from exploring. Elite: Dangerous is a space trading game, not a get rich exploring the galaxy game. I'd suggest Palladium and Progenitor Cells. Good stuff, good profits even in a T6.
Also in parting, I'd like to point out that if you spent more time exploring you'd realize it's not a click and wait 3 seconds, it's press and hold for 5 seconds. Kind of hurts your credibility to gloss over something simple like that. Yes, that was meant to be snarky.
gravityztr
Banned
great suggestions from OP. its nice to see people wanting to contribute for improvements !!