Newcomer / Intro Hunted By A Fellow CMDR

[Bluebird007]

(This is not a rant/rage/moan thread - just putting this on the Newcomers Forum so any realted searches may highlight my experiences for others.)

Last night I was jumping back and forth between two anarchy systems. I was looking for 5 pirates to further my Naval progression. (Boy do I wish I'd checked the systems out beforehand as they were very basic and had no Nav points!)

I'd managed to take out 4 of the requested 5 pirates and was pretty much just joyriding while waiting for the last one. Then it happened. An interdiction. Ah ha, I thought, come in number five. That's odd, there's no trash talk .... I'll submit anyway and see what it is. We drop out of supercruise and there's a single yellow on the radar ..... scanning. Again .... no trash talk? I like the trash talk ..... talk dirty to me ....... WOAH .... It's a CMDR!!! This is my first actual pirating experience, so lets do it by the book. I'm only here for an NPC pirate and maybe I can give up some goods and spark up a conversation. I open the panel to check what I'm carrying. I know I don't have much, but let's see what I can offer ..... PEW, PEW, PEW, PEW ....... shields are gone ...... what the hell ...... still no comms ....... he's coming straight at me ...... EVADE!!! BOOST!! I'm frantically trying to divert power to the engines and shields but they're not recharging. I open my modules and they've gone completely .... I'm naked out here and there's an angry felon approacging my rear! All pips to engines, boosting like I'm playing Daley Thompsons decathlon, spinning, thrusting and trying to be as random with the stick as I can be! I've put 4k between us quite quickly and the drive is charging ........ WOOOOOSH! I'm cruising!!

The hull is down to 65%, I'm a little shaken and I need to get to safety. Closest system ..... somewhere friendly ....... repairs ..... Eravate, Ackerman Market. One jump away and they like me around those parts. Let's line it up ........ BOOOOM! Interdiction number 2! No way, this guy is serious. I try to play the game but I'm not getting the better of him. If i lose I'm going to take more hull damage, but I don't know how much, will it be more as i have no shields ... I DON'T KNOW?!? I submit. There he is again, the same CMDR. This time all my pips are already on engines and the throttle is full ..... BOOSTING. I notcie this time he is in a Viper. I'm boosting and getting away with relative ease this time. A Viper? ... I'm in a Cobra ..... I'm thinking I could have taken him had I been given warning. I'm cursing my luck, I'm cursing my shields. I wanted an epic one on one to the death with this guy more than a cargo hold full of rares right now! I manage to make the jump straight to Eravate and get to the market with no further hinderances. Repairs are made and I go back to get my last pirate, all the while hoping I meet him again.

Now, this is what I call a major part of the game. I was absolutely buzzing after that. This game is DANGEROUS and I love it!! I've heard talk of unprovoked attacks and people being referred to as griefers, but DAMN, that was fun!! OK I could easily have been blown up, but I like to think the little bit of experience I have under my belt helped me on this occasion. I do think it's a bit mean to do it to total noobs, but I guess unless they get locked into a pre-school star system and have to earn their way out into the rest of the galaxy, they're out there and they're targets!

So, the point of this thread ........ if you see me out there and are a pirate, try me ..... I'm happy to play along. If you want to just have a pop at me and rack up some bounty points, have a go. If I'm prepped I'll give you a right good go back, but don't cry if you're battering me and I get the hell outta dodge!!

(By the way, all I was carrying was a black box I'd picked up from a USS! Ha! ..... though he could have had it if he'd asked nicely!)

 

[purf]

Have some rep here.

Even though I tend to avoid it and am certainly not one to incite it (just went home from, yep, Eravate),
this is what you sign up for in Open Play. And believe or not, it can be great fun

 

[the100thmonkey]

What many people object to is the pointless PvP. I mean, the CMDR is just attacking you for no reason other than that it's a hollow square on the scanner.

You're cool with it, so there's no problem, and you were in an Anarchy system.

 

[Zeeman]

(This is not a rant/rage/moan thread - just putting this on the Newcomers Forum so any realted searches may highlight my experiences for others.)

Last night I was jumping back and forth between two anarchy systems. I was looking for 5 pirates to further my Naval progression. (Boy do I wish I'd checked the systems out beforehand as they were very basic and had no Nav points!)

I'd managed to take out 4 of the requested 5 pirates and was pretty much just joyriding while waiting for the last one. Then it happened. An interdiction. Ah ha, I thought, come in number five. That's odd, there's no trash talk .... I'll submit anyway and see what it is. We drop out of supercruise and there's a single yellow on the radar ..... scanning. Again .... no trash talk? I like the trash talk ..... talk dirty to me ....... WOAH .... It's a CMDR!!! This is my first actual pirating experience, so lets do it by the book. I'm only here for an NPC pirate and maybe I can give up some goods and spark up a conversation. I open the panel to check what I'm carrying. I know I don't have much, but let's see what I can offer ..... PEW, PEW, PEW, PEW ....... shields are gone ...... what the hell ...... still no comms ....... he's coming straight at me ...... EVADE!!! BOOST!! I'm frantically trying to divert power to the engines and shields but they're not recharging. I open my modules and they've gone completely .... I'm naked out here and there's an angry felon approacging my rear! All pips to engines, boosting like I'm playing Daley Thompsons decathlon, spinning, thrusting and trying to be as random with the stick as I can be! I've put 4k between us quite quickly and the drive is charging ........ WOOOOOSH! I'm cruising!!

The hull is down to 65%, I'm a little shaken and I need to get to safety. Closest system ..... somewhere friendly ....... repairs ..... Eravate, Ackerman Market. One jump away and they like me around those parts. Let's line it up ........ BOOOOM! Interdiction number 2! No way, this guy is serious. I try to play the game but I'm not getting the better of him. If i lose I'm going to take more hull damage, but I don't know how much, will it be more as i have no shields ... I DON'T KNOW?!? I submit. There he is again, the same CMDR. This time all my pips are already on engines and the throttle is full ..... BOOSTING. I notcie this time he is in a Viper. I'm boosting and getting away with relative ease this time. A Viper? ... I'm in a Cobra ..... I'm thinking I could have taken him had I been given warning. I'm cursing my luck, I'm cursing my shields. I wanted an epic one on one to the death with this guy more than a cargo hold full of rares right now! I manage to make the jump straight to Eravate and get to the market with no further hinderances. Repairs are made and I go back to get my last pirate, all the while hoping I meet him again.

Now, this is what I call a major part of the game. I was absolutely buzzing after that. This game is DANGEROUS and I love it!! I've heard talk of unprovoked attacks and people being referred to as griefers, but DAMN, that was fun!! OK I could easily have been blown up, but I like to think the little bit of experience I have under my belt helped me on this occasion. I do think it's a bit mean to do it to total noobs, but I guess unless they get locked into a pre-school star system and have to earn their way out into the rest of the galaxy, they're out there and they're targets!

So, the point of this thread ........ if you see me out there and are a pirate, try me ..... I'm happy to play along. If you want to just have a pop at me and rack up some bounty points, have a go. If I'm prepped I'll give you a right good go back, but don't cry if you're battering me and I get the hell outta dodge!!

(By the way, all I was carrying was a black box I'd picked up from a USS! Ha! ..... though he could have had it if he'd asked nicely!)

Love this sort of thing. There is no buzz like it in the game from anything "Environmental".

Whilst I respect the opinions of those Solo/Group players that don't like PvP, I certainly don't agree, and as such, I also wish they'd stop trashing PvP, as they have their options to not participate.


Good stuff OP, just remember to keep enough spare cash for a few insurance re-buys, and enjoy!

Z...

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

What many people object to is the pointless PvP. I mean, the CMDR is just attacking you for no reason other than that it's a hollow square on the scanner.

You're cool with it, so there's no problem, and you were in an Anarchy system.

I think it's part of the risk and fun. So long as it's not some stupid station camping exploit, or cheating, I think it's a case of all being fair in love and war.

As stated, those apposed have two options for opting out, so I see no need for them to complain.

Z...

 

[the100thmonkey]

Whilst I respect the opinions those Solo/Group players that don't like PvP, I certainly don't agree, and as such, I also wish they'd stop trashing PvP, as they have their options to not participate.

Well, that's open to question, as the fullest consideration you seem to have given (based on what you wrote above) is to take your reasoning as far as "because open" before dismissing the concerns of a great many players.

My argument and examples will rest on the assumption that the PvP experience is not - but should be - consensual, even in open. I've seen videos on YouTube where the guy playing types "PvP?" in chat and waits until he gets a positive response before engaging. That's all it takes to play a social game in a socially responsible manner. There are, however, shades of grey, and my argument should not be interpreted as an absolute - there are very few of those. Rares runs, for example, are a good case of where the considerations below are complicated by the very nature of the rares mechanic itself. Another assumption I make, then, is that we're talking about the more extreme examples I've seen recently, such as an experienced player ganking people in LHS 3447/Eravate for lulz.

I play open exclusively, by the way, and am quite willing to look after myself, like the OP. However, I hate lazy thinking, and the justifications of the PvP free-for-all crowd are some of the laziest I've encountered in a long time.

I think it's part of the risk and fun. So long as it's not some stupid station camping exploit, or cheating, I think it's a case of all being fair in love and war.

As stated, those apposed have to options for opting out, so I see no need for them to complain.

Z...

There are a couple of faulty assumptions underlying this that should be corrected.

First of all, there is the assumption that because someone is playing open, they are explicitly agreeing to PvP with anyone and at any time. This is equivalent to saying that because I choose to leave the house, I am explicitly consenting for anyone to punch me in the face if they wish to. Even if I live in a dangerous part of town, it would not equate to consent. Without any unnecessary appeal to laws or their enforcement, it's prima facie absurd to make the assertion, in both the game and in real life. A player killing newbie CMDRs for no good reason is, despite the protestations to the contrary, infringing others' freedoms from interference to play their game. Think about it - telling players they should play solo or closed group if they don't want to be ganked is propositionally and logically identical to telling a woman to either stay at home or only leave it in the company of her husband (or other male relative) if she doesn't want to be sexually assaulted. Both propositions assume the fault lies with the victim, and both are equally flawed for that. The grammatical structures used in this kind of discussion are revealing - the passive voice is often used to mask the agency of the attacker and focus the verb on the patient. It's quite common on these forums.

Both in the game and in real life, the responsibility lies with the person performing the act. Saying "go play solo" is effectively denying one's own agency and responsibility. It's similar to a dog cocking its leg and urinating against a tree to mark its territory. It's pretty childish. The unspoken premise therein is that open "belongs" to PvP-focused players. It doesn't. The opposite suggestion also works: Want unsolicited PvP? Go make a private group with those explicit rules. For this reason, I think the idea I heard about a specific PvP arena mode is a good one.

To address the assumption that the purpose of open is for PvP: It's not. It enables it, sure, but it's a necessary condition for a great many other in-game interactions. One of the reasons I play open, for example, is because of the possibility of positive social interaction in an open world. Solo doesn't permit that, and even the largest private group doesn't have enough CMDRs online at any given time (especially in my timezone) to ensure such social contact, which is a core part of the game. Solo or closed-group might not meet the needs of other players so dismissed. It certainly doesn't meet mine.

Essentially, the disagreement is about power, which explains both why players on the receiving end of non-consensual PvP are so vocal about it, and why those who commit it are so dismissive. For one person to enjoy their game by negatively affecting the enjoyent of others (by shooting them for no good reason, for example) is the kind of childish behaviour my kids grew out of by the time they were three years old. I suspect many of the players responsible for the wanton acts I've mentioned are a lot older than that, which kind of leads one to wonder why they do it.

To return to the rare goods mechanic - it confounds the arguments I've given above because it's pretty transparently an attempt to meet the demands of the PvP community: It's a honeypot by design, and I'd say the same for the community goals, particularly those that involve moving large amounts of rare earth metals, such as in the Yembo event. In cases like those, I'd say non-consensual PvP such as piracy is much more appropriate behavoiur, because it' much more reasonable to assume that a player is aware of the intent of what they are participating in. I'd never take my T7 into a community event unescorted, and if I were to participate (which is unlikely, given that I dislike piracy - I respect a pirate's decision to be one; it's their choice, but I'm not going to enable their behaviour), I'd be much more likely to do so in an Asp or a Python.

The real issue is the players who just want to use Elite: Dangerous as a place to go casual farming by griefing other players (even just once is griefing, in my opinion, if the intent is to kill the other player and spoil their evening for the lulz). There's no skill involved in it, and its primary goal can not therefore be the challenge of combat.

Beyond "Herp-a-derp. I do it because I can. Herp-a-derp," I've yet to come across an argument for attacking players in weaker ships for no good reason that isn't either based on a conclusion that doesn't follow from the premises, or faulty premises themselves.

 

[ketch1]

Great stuff have some rep, been there done that but not so lucky i was smoked! good experiance though, i never leave a cmdr alone if i'm in the same space i will always check him out first, i will not attack unless he or she has a bounty on their heads! Would get out of dodge though if my viper was somewhat out classed

 

[Lupin]

There are trolls (idiots) and one self confessed psychopath (On this forum) in most online games.
Best you can do ignore them unless you are hunting them for sport or maybe find an area of space with less of them.

I only have problems when I have to venture into main systems or popular areas on my way somewhere or helping with community goals.

Not hard to get away from most unskilled trolls, skilled player pirates tend to talk so a little harder but at least a warning.

 

[PAULO]

How do we know if real players?

 

[Bacon Sarnie]

How do we know if real players?

Target in radar is hollow. If its full then its an npc

 

[PAULO]

I seen these thank you. What is NPC meaning?

 

[Bacon Sarnie]

I seen these thank you. What is NPC meaning?

None player character.
None playable charcter.
None person character.

 

[purf]

This is equivalent to saying that because I choose to leave the house, I am explicitly consenting for anyone to punch me in the face if they wish to. Even if I live in a dangerous part of town, it would not equate to consent.

Bu-hut, you didn't buy a house in a European village's gated community. You knowingly chose to buy a house in downtown Bogotá;
the real estate agent could not have been more upfront about this and its consequences :þ

 

[Bluebird007]

Just to add little more to my views on this experience. I've opted to progress with the Federation Navy. I see no problem with pilots aligned to the Empire having a pop at me simply because of my chosen path. In fact, I'd be happy to adorn my ship with Federal emblems and enter Empire systems just to goad them. Similarly, if I saw an Empire craft in my neighbourhood, I would be compelled to cut them up, tailgate them and attempt to force an angry response from them!

 

[the100thmonkey]

Bu-hut, you didn't buy a house in a European village's gated community. You knowingly chose to buy a house in downtown Bogotá;
the real estate agent could not have been more upfront about this and its consequences :þ

Poor comparison, for two reasons:

1. That still doesn't mean I consent for strangers to punch me in the face.
2. The violence is political and economic. I have no particular problems with piracy, for example - it's motivated PvP. I may dislike pirates (what trader and bounty-hunter doesn't?), but I don't think it's senseless violence. There's a difference. Indeed, my first post in the thread refers to "pointless PvP," and my later post is clearly predicated on that.

Just to add little more to my views on this experience. I've opted to progress with the Federation Navy. I see no problem with pilots aligned to the Empire having a pop at me simply because of my chosen path. In fact, I'd be happy to adorn my ship with Federal emblems and enter Empire systems just to goad them. Similarly, if I saw an Empire craft in my neighbourhood, I would be compelled to cut them up, tailgate them and attempt to force an angry response from them!

Good on you!

I'm aligned with a faction hostile to both the Empire and the Federation. If you get in my way in a conflict zone, I'll shoot you and kill you if I can. If you're going to align with the feds, we'll almost certainly be on different sides!

^ That is what I mean by "motivated PvP." There's sense to it.

 

[Bluebird007]

Good on you!

I'm aligned with a faction hostile to both the Empire and the Federation. If you get in my way in a conflict zone, I'll shoot you and kill you if I can. If you're going to align with the feds, we'll almost certainly be on different sides!

^ That is what I mean by "motivated PvP." There's sense to it.

You've made it onto my list!

 

[purf]

^ I have the same list

Similarly, if I saw an Empire craft in my neighbourhood, I would be compelled to cut them up, tailgate them and attempt to force an angry response from them!

Let me ask you something, because I actually think Open Play is working beautifully except - and here's what much of the problem boils down to, imho - Say, you force a response by, well, force.
Will you keep your bounties?

 

[Bluebird007]

^ I have the same list


Let me ask you something, because I actually think Open Play is working beautifully except - and here's what much of the problem boils down to, imho - Say, you force a response by, well, force.
Will you keep your bounties?

Absolutely! As long as I can remain 'clean' as far as the Federation are concerned I'm quite happy to be wanted by the Empire.

It makes sense to me that as a loyal 'Fed' the Empire should want me dead!

 

[the100thmonkey]

You've made it onto my list!

Ooh! My first list!

I don't hide, but I don't advertise my location either!

If and when we do cross paths, I hope the best pilot wins. I'll tell my wing to hold off if I'm not flying alone, although I can't guarantee that I won't do my best brave Sir Robin iimpression if I'm losing!

 

[purf]

♫ pling, + rep

 

[LeeLeeBoomBoom]

I just felt the need to point out that you seem to reckon you could take him if you wanted because you were in a cobra while he was in a viper. Don't let the fact that the viper is a cheaper ship fool you into underestimating it, they're vicious little ships. The Cobra is so expensive in comparison not because it's more powerful, but because it's a very versatile ship, a jack of all trades if you will, where as the viper is specifically a combat ship. I've had a couple of CMDRs in cobras pull my viper out of supercruise probably expecting an easy kill, only to find their shields down within a minute and forced to run with their tail between their legs whilst their shields recharge, followed by me super-cruising away in disgust after seeing their bounty wouldn't even cover my ammo costs.