What does it take to get developer or producer commentary in the forum?
- Thread starter Nathan Explosion
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what ship pricing issue? those prices match the specifications and asset weighting on those ships. they dont price the ships for the community, they price them against a preset scale. ever played d&d or table top 40k, same principles apply.. each ship has base stats and multipliers, each asset slot (module, accessory or weapon) that a ship has, has a value dependant on its size/class. The prices are what they are.
If you don't think the numerous threads that the mods have closed, and the one 50+ pager that has grown this morning "doesn't matter that much" then your attitude is probably indicative of the problem at FD.
If they are going to be active on the forums and respond to any threads, then they need to respond to critical community issues, like ship pricing, exploiting, whatever it may be this week, first. This should chiefly be the producers' job, honestly. We don't need commentary specifically from the software development team, but if Frontier is actually going to operate a public-facing forum, then they need to have people who are willing and able to deal with the public. In terms of development projects I have contributed to, and their respective communities, this one is by far the most fundamentally mismanaged, and it shows in the overwelming toxicity of any discussion. They would be better off closing most of it rather than running it this way.
I think you misunderstand the complaint most people are voicing. The prices for these respective ships are totally irrelevant. The problem is that FD apparently figured that the best thing they could do would be to introduce more new ships that only the 10% of the player base with the most free time/desire to grind trading will get to use. I'm not sure they could have made a more poor decision, and they had an entire week to plan an alternate strategy. The complaint is that it takes 4-6 hours of gameplay to access the first six ships, and 50+ to move on to any after that, unless your intent is to grind trading for hours. FD should've focused on filling the gap, and that point is so clear, and has been for so long, that I really just do not understand how they came to the decision to release these two ships right now. My guess is that realistically it means that they have no intent of filling the lower tier ship gaps, and that is very bad for the future of this game.
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damn wizards.. Albert, saddle binky
Devs can and they have to pick and choose. People obsessing over ship prices while ignoring other parts of the game is really a bit noise. They have in fact addressed lot of income disparity issues in 1.2. Don't just sit here waiting for answer, just go, try out bounty hunting. It's a lot more fun and more profitable.
Ah selective post reading.. again.. http://eft.recoil.org/posts
ive been messing around online since the early 80's, played many different MMO's in that time and been part of too many communities to remember. you must have very limited experiance if you consider FD to be bad at communicating. Just because they choose to keep things held back until they are commited to releasing the information is no bad thing. in my experiance, while the player base is small, and during that initial development process, its all far more open and bouyant. but once you hit release, you are then in a position where you have to step back. anything you say as a dev can and will be held as accountable, happening, as promised, etc etc.. this causes drama. devs love nothing more than healthy dialogue with the player base, but the more involved you are, the more ats come out of the closet, they make demands, have silly expectations and throw around insults etc.. some even have the audacity to EXPECT replies. our devs do listen, they do read, and if THEY deam it important, they tend to respond.
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You'll hear from David when he has something new to sell you.
I spent a week with it in Beta. Watched community members try to work backward to the ship pricing, arguments erupt, and threads grow huge and toxic because a FD representative couldn't stop by to say, "Yes, the Vulture is 22 million and the FdL is 102 million". I'm getting awfully tired of these small issues that FD makes a huge deal because they cannot or will not communicate. The massive income disparity is still there, by the way, and now the bulletin boards and assassination missions don't work...
Like I said, they would be better served closing the community if they are just going to largely ignore it.
And a great example of how threads turn toxic. You accuse me of "selective post reading", and yet I don't think you've actually read a thing I've said. But by all means, condescend to me about how many development communities *you think* I've participated in, and intimate I am an at expecting a response. You are totally doing FD a favor by making excuses and insulting me. The fact still remains your link does not show a single response to many the crises which have erupted since Beta (not 1.2 Beta, regular old Beta). All FD had to do to stymie the current crisis would've been to acknowledge ship prices when the community worked backwards to a correct number.
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You haven't even defined the "ship pricing issue" or "income disparity" in any meaningful, constructive or non-biased way, and I feel a "but there are hundreds of threads on this topic" reply coming on. But... they're objective. I think the nature of ED is that we feel a bit closer to the devs than we would with a game like Saints Row or GTA, where they're untouchable gods, but ED is what it is. We play in their sandbox, not ours. If I want the Vulture to cost 10,000,000 instead of 20,000,000, that's not a valid reason for it to be so!
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I'm not speaking for FDEV, but the community is based around the game. The game doesn't serve the community.
EDIT: AND... can't we have surprises? You can't buy a Vulture until it's in the game, so why do you need to know the price before it exists? Do I want to know what's in every box before Christmas morning?? Grrrrrrr.
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I'm not speaking for FDEV, but the community is based around the game. The game doesn't serve the community.
EDIT: AND... can't we have surprises? You can't buy a Vulture until it's in the game, so why do you need to know the price before it exists? Do I want to know what's in every box before Christmas morning?? Grrrrrrr.
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I love the amdram nature of some posters.. 'well if they arnt going to answer they should just close it down' wow! some people only see the world in the crazyassed colours they paint it, no amount of common sense will ever get that particular brush out of their hand.
Pretty sure I did...and I'm pretty sure I made it explicitly clear that I do not care about the physical prices of these specific ships. I actually think they're pretty fair, or at least in line with my expectations for their stats. But just to make sure you actually see it this time:
I don't see how I can be more clear than that. And if you need me to explain something so simple as the fact of income disparity between professions in Elite: Dangerous, I have to question how much time you have actually spent in game. It's pretty commonly known that traders make dependable, low risk, high earnings. They have options, and a veritable fleet of ships to choose from spaced in a reasonable way through their career development. Combat/Bounty Hunting have absolutely no such luxuries. Ships are scattered at far ends of the scale, with the Vulture representing a poor attempt at middle ground. I think it is representative of a lack of scalability in the ship pricing model, and fairly indicative that we are unlikely to see much disparity in combat ships below the 20Mcr price point.
Suprises are fine, but when the community has worked backwards to an exact figure, and threads have devolved into toxic arguments and insults over a number that will ultimately be proven to be fact, maybe it's time to spill the beans. Maybe they'll learn that this time.
As my Dad says frequently, "common sense ain't so common". We might have to amend that one for you to include basic reading comprehension if you actually think I am calling for a unilateral closure of the forums because of this single issue which you are at leas as hung up on as me. If you'd take the time to read...and comprehend...you'd note that ship pricing is not even the only issue I've mentioned. It is merely the one that you and a few others have latched onto in a feeble-minded attempt to discredit my valid complaint about a lack of communication from FD as a studio.
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If you want a reply then private message them directly with a polite short message. Not a complaint but a very simple fix and a rationale. They are normally very helpful, good listeners. They can't follow all these threads and still get their main job done.
Try something like
Dear Jeff
Smuggling is a big part but needs a bit more work to make it playable. Please increase the value of trading illegal goods because it currently is unbalanced and make a large part of the game nearly pointless and not worth pursuing at present. The you for you attention. I understand you are very busy and will patiently wait for a reply or a post from your team on the forum.
Yours faithfully a player.
Or some such. That approach works for me
Try something like
Dear Jeff
Smuggling is a big part but needs a bit more work to make it playable. Please increase the value of trading illegal goods because it currently is unbalanced and make a large part of the game nearly pointless and not worth pursuing at present. The you for you attention. I understand you are very busy and will patiently wait for a reply or a post from your team on the forum.
Yours faithfully a player.
Or some such. That approach works for me
Seriously, every single game forum in the history of this planet has posts like these made by people like you. Just because you don't like doesn't mean 'nobody asked for it'. Just because you would rather see something changes doesn't make it 'unacceptable' (as if you even have something to accept or not...). What is telling about how FD views the community is the massive patch they released a few hours ago, not that they didnt reply to your favorite topic. People have posted all kinds of criticism, and FD has repeatedly allowed it. What you fail to realise is that the world doesn't revolve around you. Why don't you launch ED and see for yourself.
yes......! spot on, have some rep
and again aside from pricing and quoting numbers of pages and some generic.. stuff.. you have still failed to produce anything specific other than 'its too expensive, i wanted to pay less, its not fair, why wont they talk to me' correct me if im wrong?
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I don't even know how to respond to this. I don't know how I can speak in more plain english, but I will try. See if you can follow along:
The problem is not the price of these specific ships.
The problem is the massive gulf in ship prices for specific professions, namely those that aren't trading.
The problem is the lack of a good way to make enough money outside of trading to upgrade your ship in a timeframe which could be considered equivalent to trading. Or more simply, it is much quicker to get the best combat vessel by trading, rather than combat. If you don't see that as an issue, then perhaps you can find a way to respectfully disagree with me.
So again, to recap:
Vulture price is fine. FdL price is fine. Wings update is largely as promised. The problem is the lack of variety in the midrange. The lack of meat for the average player. Elite can best be described as an ocean miles wide, but an inch deep, and adding expensive ships isn't helping that. Well, that and the original problem of a lack of communication from FD. I know I'm not the only person to have made that complaint either, so stop acting so appalled.
And to your last point, I'm not sure what you expect me to produce? I'm stating an opinion, and referencing threads which exist on the forum. You provided an external link, and keep referencing it as if you think it somehow disproves my opinion, or the fact that some of the largest crises in the community since release have gone completely without commentary by FD.
And heck, if that's not good enough for you, how about the 50+ page thread devoted to people who can't be bothered to play anymore? How many fall into that group and aren't active on the forums? How many explicitly stated that they left because of the perception of a "grind wall"? Does that not concern you? Do you not care to see this game online in 18 months?
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I can see that people may well prefer certain game paths, but I don't see why anyone is exclusively locked into any game path. One of the joys of the original Elite (and this one) is the ability to change what you are doing at the drop of a hat.
Need to make a lot of money? Do some trading interspersed with your normal career choice. Having trouble getting through on your normal trade run? Tool up and have a fighting chance. This game isn't about any particular career path, it's about all of them, warts and all.
Need to make a lot of money? Do some trading interspersed with your normal career choice. Having trouble getting through on your normal trade run? Tool up and have a fighting chance. This game isn't about any particular career path, it's about all of them, warts and all.
The issues you are talking about are not realy issues, they are personal preferences.
What comment do you expect on ship prices? If they would comment on this they would most likely tell you 'Yes, thats the way we designed the game and costs work as intended'.
This topic will be forgotten in 2 weeks (just as nobody talks about pythons anymore), but the real interesting questions are getting answered. Like AI or background simulation behaviour. Just take a look at the mercs of mikuun thread.
There are THREE dev comments on this. Yesterday. Within one hour. If you don't read their comments, you can hardly demand more communication.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=123776&p=1912372&viewfull=1#post1912372
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=123939&p=1913124&viewfull=1#post1913124
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=123910&p=1912818&viewfull=1#post1912818
Same as above. There were several dev comments on this. They said economy is working as intended and that the servers need some time to sort prices and demands out.
I don't have the time to look the specific post up, just do it yourself:
http://eft.recoil.org/
What comment do you expect on ship prices? If they would comment on this they would most likely tell you 'Yes, thats the way we designed the game and costs work as intended'.
This topic will be forgotten in 2 weeks (just as nobody talks about pythons anymore), but the real interesting questions are getting answered. Like AI or background simulation behaviour. Just take a look at the mercs of mikuun thread.
There are THREE dev comments on this. Yesterday. Within one hour. If you don't read their comments, you can hardly demand more communication.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=123776&p=1912372&viewfull=1#post1912372
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=123939&p=1913124&viewfull=1#post1913124
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=123910&p=1912818&viewfull=1#post1912818
Same as above. There were several dev comments on this. They said economy is working as intended and that the servers need some time to sort prices and demands out.
I don't have the time to look the specific post up, just do it yourself:
http://eft.recoil.org/
Well, for a start, "Yes the Vulture is 22Mcr and the FdL is 102Mcr" would've been a good. Some news about a ship that doesn't scream 100+Mcr price tag might be even better. Or how about, "Yes, we know you don't make much bounty hunting right now, we are moving towards X by Q? 201?."
The issue won't be "forgotten". A large number of people may not be back, and the remainder may not have viewed it as an issue. Elite as a whole may be forgotten by those who have had enough. Certainly it will fall out of the forefront, but that is merely because people can only stand banging their heads against the wall begging for feedback or commentary from FD for so long before they simply more on to greener pastures. That will be a problem when it comes time to move DLC.
There's certainly three dev posts about the lack of missions. That was never my claim. You'll note that there is not a post about the progress of (moving toward) equalizing the earning power of professions.
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