Should FD Sell the Ships in a Shop?

[jmg]

One of the elements for wanting to be able to buy other ships was due to time constraints. With the title of Elite also being gameplay locked ie it takes considerable time to achieve these ranks, then the argument can logically be extended to Ranks too. Since being Elite gives a little discount on stuff in game - and in the future special missions I can see people asking for this as well, as it would be fair if we are arguing on the basis of time being available or not.

again, see my previous point. there is a balance. the logic you're proposing is "there's no difference between buying ships and buying rank, so if we let people buy ships, we will inevitably be selling rank as well"

I disagree with the premise of your logic, for many reasons, the most illustrative being (as I said above), there are many, many games that strike a balance and include paid-for and earned elements. So on that basis alone, your logic fails.

I can buy a dire wolf in MechWarrior for USD. But I can't obtain master title until I win dozens of matches, and elite two others. that's one common-sense example of striking a balance.

So, you give people the fun of getting ships to fly that would take them years to get, but only the people that really "earn" rank get the perks. simple, nice, balance.

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No its not. And that is the point you seem to be blinded to by your lust to use this game to make up for some sort of personal or social inadequacy. You see, when you use those elements in those p2w games, while they don't directly say "gives you rank" it does. You see without those items that rank would be exponentially more difficult to EARN, but being you bought the item you get an easy button that many others won't have access to. That is the point. In no p2w game on the market is anything in the game untainted by its paid elements.

Let me give you an example. It takes most people a few days to grind up to "Merchant". Being able to buy the best hauler with real money, TWICE (so I can sell the second one for operating capital), I instantly get Merchant, and can get Tycoon in just a few days, not weeks. The point being, again a point you obviously missed, if you can just buy ships (in effect buy credits), why not just have a "Buy All" Button that gives you admin-stuff?

why are you getting so emotional about this? it's a game. I didn't attack you. the premise of your argument is so completely way off, I just don't have the time to run through it wih you. Reread my posts. Learn a little. Open your mind. And stop attacking others. It makes you seem very, very immature.

 

[Midian27]

well, I guess I just don't agree with your analogy. There are plenty of games -- the vast majority of online games that have paid elements -- that also have a earned element, like rank. STO, MWO, and the defunct SWO, to name just a few. So, I don't get how one naturally begets the other. There's a balance, and I see nothing inherent in this game that precludes a paid-for element.

Yes and those are terrible p2w games. Hence why I'm playing elite and would never touch any of them with a ten foot pole. If you want to buy ships/progress with money go play star citizen.

 

[Chip Patton]

again, see my previous point. there is a balance. the logic you're proposing is "there's no difference between buying ships and buying rank, so if we let people buy ships, we will inevitably be selling rank as well"

I disagree with the premise of your logic, for many reasons, the most illustrative being (as I said above), there are many, many games that strike a balance and include paid-for and earned elements. So on that basis alone, your logic fails.

I can buy a dire wolf in MechWarrior for USD. But I can't obtain master title until I win dozens of matches, and elite two others. that's one common-sense example of striking a balance.

So, you give people the fun of getting ships to fly that would take them years to get, but only the people that really "earn" rank get the perks. simple, nice, balance.

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why are you getting so emotional about this? it's a game. I didn't attack you. the premise of your argument is so completely way off, I just don't have the time to run through it wih you. Reread my posts. Learn a little. Open your mind. And stop attacking others. It makes you seem very, very immature.

It is rather upsetting when someone purposely withholds information for their agenda. Your agenda is to subvert the risk and challenge of the game to make your ego feel bigger by bullying those that can't pay as much as you and the information you're withholding is that every single p2w game has gone to the crapper (mainly its community). Online play in this game will become GARBAGE and you know this to be true, else you would be contently playing one of the THOUSAND other p2w MMOs and avoiding this "ball numbing grind" like the plague.

 

[jmg]

Yes and those are terrible p2w games. Hence why I'm playing elite and would never touch any of them with a ten foot pole. If you want to buy ships/progress with money go play star citizen.

and if you guys would think a little, this really is the response here... looking at the polls, and the responses, this is the most well-thought out response. Maybe paid for ships won't work here simply because the community hates them.

if ED really is about the grind, so be it. That's the basis for this game. MWO is a fantastic game, for other reasons, and I don't expect a lot of people to get it (or will I get offended if someone calls it "terribly"... it's far more tactical, strategic, instant gratification than this game).

 

[Conestoga]

again, see my previous point. there is a balance. the logic you're proposing is "there's no difference between buying ships and buying rank, so if we let people buy ships, we will inevitably be selling rank as well"

I disagree with the premise of your logic, for many reasons, the most illustrative being (as I said above), there are many, many games that strike a balance and include paid-for and earned elements. So on that basis alone, your logic fails.

I can buy a dire wolf in MechWarrior for USD. But I can't obtain master title until I win dozens of matches, and elite two others. that's one common-sense example of striking a balance.

So, you give people the fun of getting ships to fly that would take them years to get, but only the people that really "earn" rank get the perks. simple, nice, balance.

I see where you're going, and I don't mind your model, but I do not think it jibe's with how Elite currently works.

Big ships make getting rank easier - by a lot - in two of the three categories. So why not eliminate the middle man? If I have money, and no time, and want to be Elite, why should I be penalized for not having hours to spare grinding? Is that not the same?

 

[Midian27]

and if you guys would think a little, this really is the response here... looking at the polls, and the responses, this is the most well-thought out response. Maybe paid for ships won't work here simply because the community hates them.

if ED really is about the grind, so be it. That's the basis for this game. MWO is a fantastic game, for other reasons, and I don't expect a lot of people to get it (or will I get offended if someone calls it "terribly"... it's far more tactical, strategic, instant gratification than this game).

instant gratification is not what elite dangerous is about.

 

[Varrag]

You guys are still going on? Here, let me quote David Braben again:

We do not plan to make it subscription-based. Once you have purchased the game up front, you will be able to play thereafter for no further cost. Everything in the game will be purchasable with in-game Credits, earned from trading, bounty-hunting, etc. We will probably allow the supplemental purchase of Credits with real money, for those who want to accelerate their progress through the game.

Credits or ships, there's no difference. So, my proud grinders, better suck it up and prepare for what is (probably) coming, and was hinted by the chief himself quite long ago. Nothing bad there, because FDEV needs all these three archetypes in game (see the spoiler below). There is absolutely no reason, gameplay-wise, to cut themselves off from the most lucrative customers.

Spoiler

 

[Chip Patton]

and if you guys would think a little, this really is the response here... looking at the polls, and the responses, this is the most well-thought out response. Maybe paid for ships won't work here simply because the community hates them.

if ED really is about the grind, so be it. That's the basis for this game. MWO is a fantastic game, for other reasons, and I don't expect a lot of people to get it (or will I get offended if someone calls it "terribly"... it's far more tactical, strategic, instant gratification than this game).

Then why in the hell aren't you playing MWO if it is so much more fun to wield your wallet there than to wield your risk and time you put into this game?

 

[Midian27]

and if you guys would think a little, this really is the response here... looking at the polls, and the responses, this is the most well-thought out response. Maybe paid for ships won't work here simply because the community hates them.

if ED really is about the grind, so be it. That's the basis for this game. MWO is a fantastic game, for other reasons, and I don't expect a lot of people to get it (or will I get offended if someone calls it "terribly"... it's far more tactical, strategic, instant gratification than this game).

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Making personal attacks demonstrates how absolutely logic-free your arguments are.
seriously, are you guys that emotional about this that you can't even tolerate a different point of view? I've attacked no one here. Just expressed an opinion, in a very neutral way.

If frontier ever allows the purchase of in-game advantages (ships or credits) in a MULTIPLAYER game me and many others like me will abandon the game entirely. This is why your opinion is met with hostility, because we've all played games we enjoyed that have been ruined by micro transactions.

 

[Nagual]

If FDev could somehow magically have it that anything like ships could be made only for Solo, and that Solo play could not affect other modes of play I would have no problems, however I can't see this likely to happen. So if it can't happen, then all modes will have access to these pay for real cash ships. Now, in an ideal game people would buy them have fun with them and that would be it. However human nature would take hold, and people who desire ermm.. 'non consensual dueling to the death' style of play would have a field day. This would have an impact on players in Open, perhaps making them choose Solo or Group, rather than encourage them to play Open. What becomes the game for them?

 

[jmg]

I see where you're going, and I don't mind your model, but I do not think it jibe's with how Elite currently works.

Big ships make getting rank easier - by a lot - in two of the three categories. So why not eliminate the middle man? If I have money, and no time, and want to be Elite, why should I be penalized for not having hours to spare grinding? Is that not the same?

well, maybe I'm missing some nuanced point because I'm new to this community, but I think they are very different. In MWO, every now and then, people do as for paid-for master status. It's routinely ignored. That's the difference between true-believers and pugs. The guys that master the mechs get percs, extra modules, faster speeds, longer range weapons, etc. So everyone gets to piliot a dire wolf, but you'll never know if you're fighting an ace or a slouch until you lock on and duke it out.

So, that's the answer .. they're different because they're differnet. In MWO, the line is there, because the community wants paid for mechs, but not paid for status. And maybe that's the answer here -- paid for ships won't work, simply because the community (the vast majority, from the looks of the polls) don't want them.

I would love to have paid for ships, but then, maybe this game just isn't for me (anyone want my account? just kidding mods)

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instant gratification is not what elite dangerous is about.[/QUOTE

.....completely, utterly missing the point of my post ....

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Then why in the hell aren't you playing MWO if it is so much more fun to wield your wallet there than to wield your risk and time you put into this game?

again, missing the point.
I do play MWO. All the time.
I'm also trying to find a replacement for a space sim I used to play that was discountinued (SWO).

Again, why attack the person? I'm not saying MWO is superior in any way to ED. It has some elements that could work here, but it's a vastly different game.

 

[Chip Patton]

You guys are still going on? Here, let me quote David Braben again:



Credits or ships, there's no difference. So, my proud grinders, better suck it up and prepare for what is (probably) coming, and was hinted by the chief himself quite long ago. Nothing bad there, because FDEV needs all these three archetypes in game (see the spoiler below). There is absolutely no reason, gameplay-wise, to cut themselves off from potentially the most lucrative customers.

Spoiler

View attachment 20208

This is while the game was in its kickstarter as well and all options had to be considered. Lately the producer specifically stated that a mechanic making it where you can use real money to pay for your insurance when you're out of credits was and I quote, "off the table". If a producer is so determined to keep a token out of the game that you pay for with real money that only allows you to pay for a mistake -- how receptive do you think he will really be when considering purchasing a ship which you can turn around and sell for massive quantities of credits?

Making personal attacks demonstrates how absolutely logic-free your arguments are.
seriously, are you guys that emotional about this that you can't even tolerate a different point of view? I've attacked no one here. Just expressed an opinion, in a very neutral way.

I insulted your agenda and your post, not you, I don't know enough about you to make any personal attack -- to accuse someone of this is nothing more than a despite distraction to get the dogs off your scent. I can't tolerate malice as I stated in what you quoted from me -- the malice of withholding information you know to be true to advance your own agenda -- its selfish, its self-serving, and it does only harm. I ask again which you purosely avoid answering, if all of these p2w games are so damn fun, why the hell are you playing this grind?

 

[jmg]

If frontier ever allows the purchase of in-game advantages (ships or credits) in a MULTIPLAYER game me and many others like me will abandon the game entirely. This is why your opinion is met with hostility, because we've all played games we enjoyed that have been ruined by micro transactions.

emotional responses to logical arguments always lose my friend.
in the end, given the crazy amounts of money frontier could make by allowing in game purchases, I'd frankly be shocked if they didn't do it. Varrag's post hit it right on the nose.
In the end, this is about making money for frontier, and the people that will make them money are people like me -- with a family, a job, and a life, and not a lot of time. But with enough spare cash hanging around to buy a few ships.

 

[Chip Patton]

again, missing the point.
I do play MWO. All the time.
I'm also trying to find a replacement for a space sim I used to play that was discountinued (SWO).

Again, why attack the person? I'm not saying MWO is superior in any way to ED. It has some elements that could work here, but it's a vastly different game.

Ah Hah! I see, so you DO have the time to put into a grind, you just don't want to so you can play your other games? Right? Your logic cannot win, no matter how you try and spin this because I'm coming at you with over (counts how old EverQuest is) 16 years of MMO experience and seeing exactly what p2w does to the game, to the community, and to the average "courtesy" of a player.

 

[Conestoga]

well, maybe I'm missing some nuanced point because I'm new to this community, but I think they are very different. In MWO, every now and then, people do as for paid-for master status. It's routinely ignored. That's the difference between true-believers and pugs. The guys that master the mechs get percs, extra modules, faster speeds, longer range weapons, etc. So everyone gets to piliot a dire wolf, but you'll never know if you're fighting an ace or a slouch until you lock on and duke it out.

So, that's the answer .. they're different because they're differnet. In MWO, the line is there, because the community wants paid for mechs, but not paid for status. And maybe that's the answer here -- paid for ships won't work, simply because the community (the vast majority, from the looks of the polls) don't want them.

I would love to have paid for ships, but then, maybe this game just isn't for me (anyone want my account? just kidding mods)

Your idea would be fine if this game were set up differently. If you could only get Elite status, or certain ships, through personal skill, then maybe I'd feel differently about buying ships for cash. There are no outright rewards for skill at this point.

 

[jmg]

Your idea would be fine if this game were set up differently. If you could only get Elite status, or certain ships, through personal skill, then maybe I'd feel differently about buying ships for cash. There are no outright rewards for skill at this point.

well, that's where I do agree. maybe make your frame drives more efficient after so many cargo runs, or cool down time on lasers shorter after so many battles. But I guess I hear what you're saying ... since there is no such thing in the game, ships really does equate directly to status.

 

[Midian27]

emotional responses to logical arguments always lose my friend.
in the end, given the crazy amounts of money frontier could make by allowing in game purchases, I'd frankly be shocked if they didn't do it. Varrag's post hit it right on the nose.
In the end, this is about making money for frontier, and the people that will make them money are people like me -- with a family, a job, and a life, and not a lot of time. But with enough spare cash hanging around to buy a few ships.

Good luck with that, its not gonna happen.

 

[jmg]

Bad idea. Don't care that people buy ships for whatever reason and fly whatever the hell they want.

I care about people who have little sense and money sinking more than they can afford on this game. For instance:

I want an Anaconda. Now FD can't just charge 20 bucks for it, which I can afford, because it will become a common boat. So how expensive do people who think this is a good idea want the price for a Conda to be?

I'd blow $100 on a 'conda.

 

[Xaraman]

So how expensive do people who think this is a good idea want the price for a Conda to be?

Considering a Cobra might cost £10-20 and the Anaconda is approx 300 times the value of a cobra in game, £3000-6000 for an anaconda would sound about fair

Note: My tongue is firmly in cheek here. I don't want to see this happen (as I stated a few pages back). No microtransactions outside vanity please.

 

[jmg]

Well, you already paid for a game with a couple of mil headstart, so I believe you.

100 eh? What's a Conda worth? I'm guessing you'd buy the stock version. So 100 dollars buys you 150 million. Isn't that a bit cheap?

I see your point, we should up that to $200

I should have put a smiley face next to my original post --- I'd *never * pay $100 for a stock 'conda.