I never did consider fuel costs. The fuel scoop for me wasn't a money saving thing, it was and still is a time saving thing. When i'm flying 100ly to get somewhere I don't want to have to keep docking to refuel so I scoop as my FSD cools down. My Clipper with it's pitiful fuel tank only docks at the end of my journey, however long it may be.
Arcade or Simulator game? The dangers of fan-service
- Thread starter Yank31
- Start date
Taking the general point (the 'dumbing down' of the game), I think you just have to have faith that FD are considering their decisions in the context of whether it improves the title.
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Hopefully we'll see a truly dynamic implementation of the economic model which will feed into elements such as fuel, repairs, bounties, ship costs etc but right now there's not actually too much to complain about...
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Hopefully we'll see a truly dynamic implementation of the economic model which will feed into elements such as fuel, repairs, bounties, ship costs etc but right now there's not actually too much to complain about...
Because not all ships can cross even 100Ly without having to do several stops at stations to refuel, if not for having a fuel scoop. The only thing that changes was that fuel scoops were a big money saver. They still save time, extend your range even if you are not out there on an exploration mission, and also it is just a cool thing to be able to do.
But maybe that is not an ideal scheme? Many people like trading, and don't want to do anything but trading. There are insane numbers of people who play these 'truckers' games where there is nothing else to do, and many people enjoy ED as a space trucking game. Cool for them, let them be the traders, and let everyone else do whatever they want to do. I sincerely doubt the devs are aiming for a game that 'justifies' activities that are 'an abomination'. I think they are more trying to make a game where you have an option and decide for yourself what is fun to you.
Bear in mind that we're playing game which is in heavy development - as we are constantly getting reassured, nothing is set in stone and wild swings are common thing. Some might assume that we are actually beta testing game for console market which is, or could have become, company's primary target.
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I'm not sure if this asinine argument is deliberately mendacious or just ignorant
Tell me, sensei, how one may "spend some creds on fitting out your barge for defense", allowing any of the Lakon freighters to stand a snowball's chance in a supernova defending itself against any reasonably competent pilot in a Vulture, or hell, even a Viper? Not going to happen. That trope does not magically accrue validity through repetition.
I'm a "Shooting type" and I completely agree with you. Whilst I do think that combat income needed buffing, I do think most of the people complaining about the Vultures initial cost, were nothing but whiney 5 year old spoiled brats to be honest. A lot of people complaining were hardcore casuals who only play for 3 hours a week, and a lot of them didn't even have a clue how to make the most of the bang average earning potential of combat anyway. All I heard was "I've been playing since beta, and I can only make 100k an hour from combat" - That's a typical example of someone who is completely useless at this game... and FDev have catered to him.
They either needed to lower the cost of combat ships, or buff combat earnings. Instead, they have done both... and it's far too easy now
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Before crying nerf on the Vulture, consider this. The new RESs are only profitable if you can survive long enough in the violent ones to reap the rewards. In a Viper or Cobra you are right on the edge, especially if a wing of Anacondas and Pythons jumps in. This slows down the credit gain considerably because you need to be careful. In a fully kitted Vulture or combat fitted Asp on the other hand you can rake in the creds very fast indeed. So the base cost progression from Sidewinder/Eagle (few 10s of k) to Viper/Cobra (few 100s of k) to Vulture/Asp (5/6mill) to Fer de Lance (50mill) is pretty much spot on.
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I'm not sure if this asinine argument is deliberately mendacious or just ignorant
Tell me, sensei, how one may "spend some creds on fitting out your barge for defense", allowing any of the Lakon freighters to stand a snowball's chance in a supernova defending itself against any reasonably competent pilot in a Vulture, or hell, even a Viper? Not going to happen. That trope does not magically accrue validity through repetition.
Have you seen the new hull and shield upgrades?
Yes, thanks. Have you seen how fast a Vulture can peel open a Python, let alone a type 6, if the Vulture pilot isn't some sort of ham-handed dillhole? Are you aware that this game also now supports "wings", which allow four such people to roflstomp a trader in even less time and with even greater ease than one could? Have you played the game, or just the forum?
Elite Dangerous does not simulate anything, ergo it cannot be considered a simulation, not by any stretch of the imagination. To brand it arcade might be a bit outdated. It's a fun game, a throwback to the 80's version with a new set of clothes to a me it pretty, further dumbed down to placate the tears of the vocal few. It's a helluva lot of fun, but it's no simulator.
Would agree with the OP. It seems that things are being simplified because people moan about things taking too long and being to tedious for them. It seems the instant gratification arcade game crowd are getting their way over the more traditionalists that want to experience the game as it was intended, rp it even, rather than just grind, stat manage and race to the top as fast as possible.
People have moaned that they want more power in this ship, that ship should cost less, repairs should cost less, shouldn't have to wait to do this, they want a button for that to simplify it etc. etc.
Sad thing is, in 6 months, a year maybe, those players will already have moved on to other games to beat. Those of use who appreciate the work FD have done and want to experience what Elite was always meant to be will be the ones still here, playing the dumbed down game they demanded.
People have moaned that they want more power in this ship, that ship should cost less, repairs should cost less, shouldn't have to wait to do this, they want a button for that to simplify it etc. etc.
Sad thing is, in 6 months, a year maybe, those players will already have moved on to other games to beat. Those of use who appreciate the work FD have done and want to experience what Elite was always meant to be will be the ones still here, playing the dumbed down game they demanded.
Yes, thanks. Have you seen how fast a Vulture can peel open a Python, let alone a type 6, if the Vulture pilot isn't some sort of ham-handed dillhole? Are you aware that this game also now supports "wings", which allow four such people to roflstomp a trader in even less time and with even greater ease than one could? Have you played the game, or just the forum?
Being insulting isn't any better if you stick a smiley on the end of it. I am not suggesting that you stand toe to toe with a combat jock and expect to survive. I am suggesting that you can beef up the defenses of the ship to the point where you have time to jump and run. So the new upgrades can help. As can NOT stripping out your shield generator for more cargo space. If this minimises your profit too much, then there's always Solo play. That was my point. Which I made without slinging abuse.
Thank you all for your posts, read them all to that point and I've seen a lot of good things.
Your post made me laugh though. Because... I would actually totally love the cargo to take more time to load. It's a brilliant idea...
I guess it tells about what I expect from this game. I want depth, time consuming, things that matter, decisions, numbers... And Elite has the back for everything of that. So here I am, hoping.
But yeah. As it appears (to my sincere surprise), most of today gamers are perfectly fine with their "quick fix" of fun and action. Dam. I thought/wished it was hardcore. Give me hardcore!
Your post made me laugh though. Because... I would actually totally love the cargo to take more time to load. It's a brilliant idea...
I guess it tells about what I expect from this game. I want depth, time consuming, things that matter, decisions, numbers... And Elite has the back for everything of that. So here I am, hoping.
But yeah. As it appears (to my sincere surprise), most of today gamers are perfectly fine with their "quick fix" of fun and action. Dam. I thought/wished it was hardcore. Give me hardcore!
You're mistaking quick-fix fun and action with just wanting to avoid a slog of grind and boredom. We still want a game with appropriate depth and challenge, claiming otherwise is just a lame strawman.
Actually, if it would take 3 seconds it would be great. Right now it takes 0 seconds for 1 ton as well as for 200 tons. I don't think it should take hours, but 2-5 seconds - in which FD's audio team could use it's magic again
- would be nice!This is the bit that concerns me most - on the whole FD have pretty much been "we're doing it our way because we think that's the right way" and I've mostly gone along with that because;
They are the designers - the only people with sight of the overall plan
and
They are the only ones with all the live data as to what is happening.
But to bring two key ships out at X price and then drastically slash those prices in a couple of days after a forum outcry looks like the tail wagging the dog. Either it was right in the first place - or it wasn't.
Gives the wrong impression - to me at least.
I really don't mind what price they came out at - as I said that was for FD to make the call - they did - then they un-made it.
Actually, if it would take 3 seconds it would be great. Right now it takes 0 seconds for 1 ton as well as for 200 tons. I don't think it should take hours, but 2-5 seconds - in which FD's audio team could use it's magic again
I totally agree with Arubeto. Actually it's immersion breaking with the insta loading... We are loading 60 tons of goods in a cargo. I can understand maybe there is some sort of teleport things... But really... Our awesome ships doesn't have an AUTOPILOT (even actual Jets have) but they have a damn huge teleport station to receive goods from the stations... (and anyway we cannot teleport our cargo to our friends nearby but must do a manual cargo load with the scoop...)
Well said.
Ok, try it. Take a T6 out with maxed shields, thrusters and military composite hull, fill it with Palladium and fly around the Lave area. You will find out just how realistic your cosy little "jump and run" strategy is, when you try and outboost that interdicting Vulture, and your shields are down in a second flat
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22m was affordable by combat players it just took time to achieve, which was a good balancing point because the vultures such a superior piece of kit that it needs an investment in the same way the python does. Going from 22mil to 5mil is like changing the python from 56 to 15m, it devalues other ships because its so much better than the things in its price range and you'd be a fool not to buy it.
Realistically I think most of the problems caused by not having enough ships but as it stands the vulture is so far above the asp (despite costing the same) it goes beyond words, you may as well compare a trade asp to a combat python.
Back on topic I think realism has taken a huge hit recently, RES zones are basically arcade shooters now far far too many police, so many there is absolutely no threat to a player, fuel is so cheap you may as well refuel for free whenever you land (plausible) and so are repairs.
Like i understand the repair costs to a point, interdiction damage was really the trouble maker here but again its reduced to such a level its not a money sink anymore, just have us repair automatically on landing (apparently).
Realistically I think most of the problems caused by not having enough ships but as it stands the vulture is so far above the asp (despite costing the same) it goes beyond words, you may as well compare a trade asp to a combat python.
Back on topic I think realism has taken a huge hit recently, RES zones are basically arcade shooters now far far too many police, so many there is absolutely no threat to a player, fuel is so cheap you may as well refuel for free whenever you land (plausible) and so are repairs.
Like i understand the repair costs to a point, interdiction damage was really the trouble maker here but again its reduced to such a level its not a money sink anymore, just have us repair automatically on landing (apparently).
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