Smuggling and Black Market in 1.2.03

[Stocker]

I was looking on the Forum to see what I could do, for the past few days now that Wings is in there are a lot more ships to shoot. Which has been fun. But I saw on the forum that the black market got a increase in prices going of this thread https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=123426&page=6. So I though, why not give it a go again. I looked on the system info page that the highest prohibited Items were Combat Stabilizers and Narcotics in the Fed controlled station. So I bought Combat Stabilizers from the Imperials and I smuggled my T7 in using 2 heat sink units. 1 unit on fire 1 and the other on fire 2, I kept my temp at 0 degrees from 8KM out. I land without being scanned and open up to the black market. I sell the top item that is in the prohibited at a loss. Well I thought I must of not been looking at the right item in the prohibited list. Nope it was the top item in the list, So I thought maybe look at the imports and see if that corresponding with the top items on the market. yes they do. So I thought maybe try another item. So I did Narcotics, I'm thinking yes that has be to a winner being a Fed System and a Fed controlled station. I do the same thing and open the black market and once again at a loss.

Your thinking, I must of got both the Combat Stabilizers and Narcotics at a high price and that is why I got a loss. But no... The station I bought them from was in high quantity and they were at a low price $265 for Combat Stabilizers which at the black market was around $245 and the Galactic Average $340 i think. The Narcotics was $76 and sold on the black market at $65 and the Galactic Ave around $200

Is anyone else getting the same, as it maybe a bug that has come up since in the 1.2 release with all the 1.2 updates this week

 

[Flappers]

You won't ever be able to buy goods and sell for profit on the black market... regardless of where you purchase them.
That would be exploitable.

 

[McWraith]

You won't ever be able to buy goods and sell for profit on the black market... regardless of where you purchase them.
That would be exploitable.

Could you explain how is that exploitable? Smuggling should be even more profitable than trading, if done right, as you're risking heavy fines and provides highly sought goods.

 

[Flappers]

Smuggling should be even more profitable than trading,

I'm not a trader, but I will say that this is simply wrong. Trading should always be more profitable than anything, but not at a ludicrous amount.

If smuggling goods from a market is more profitable than trading, then why would anyone trade?
It would completely kill trading, and all the traders would go to smuggling.

 

[heartorhead]

Black market is rather like pawn shop. You sell stuff from piracy/uss.

 

[McWraith]

Smuggled goods should bring high profit margins, as they aren't normally accessible by legal means, thus the demand should be high in a degenerate universe.
Problems with smuggling is that you risk getting detected, so it's technically more challenging than simple trading. I don't think it'd kill trading but rather give purpose to smugglers.

I've never sold smuggled goods with a loss but that's simply because I've never bought them in the first place. I enjoy smuggling and I do it every time I have an opportunity. I think if you dedicate time and bring banned/sought goods to a station with a black market, you should be able to sell it with a hefty profit.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

-- Deleted --

 

[excalibus]

You won't ever be able to buy goods and sell for profit on the black market... regardless of where you purchase them.
That would be exploitable.

this statment is actually incorrect... totally incorrect...

You CAN buy slaves at a station that exports them and sell them on the black market for a profit...

BUT that said and as I have suggested in various smuggling threads, they need to relook at the illegal goods and make selling them profitable on the black market... as per the old elites where you could almost double your buying cost for selling illegal goods to a black market merchant...

The current system is pretty flawed in that one regard... because it seems they want people selling stolen goods at half price... okay make that the case but they need to make selling illegal goods that are not flagged as stolen at more than the buy price...

Personally I think it should be tied to the systems various statuses as well

So a system in a state of civil war will pay a lot more for any illegal weapons and armours...

Systems in a depression (Economic bust) will make luxury goods (high end consumer items, high end drugs etc) illegal temorarily and offer more money for smuggling them in...

Systems under a blockade, will pay more for all goods etc

Systems under economic boom will pay a lot more (double or triple buy price) for illegal drugs and even more for illegal rare drugs etc

 

[McWraith]

Black market is rather like pawn shop. You sell stuff from piracy/uss.

But it shouldn't be. That's not what smuggling is about, really

 

[Ben Ryder]

I'm not a trader, but I will say that this is simply wrong. Trading should always be more profitable than anything, but not at a ludicrous amount.

If smuggling goods from a market is more profitable than trading, then why would anyone trade?
It would completely kill trading, and all the traders would go to smuggling.

If smuggling goods from a market is more profitable than trading, then why would anyone trade?

Because there is a lot less risk in trading than in smuggling. Smuggling means you dont want to tangle with the police or pirates. No one is watching your back and there's no one to call for help if you are carrying illegal goods.

It would completely kill trading, and all the traders would go to smuggling.

Nope. Would they suddenly shift from a safe route to say trading in something like slaves and risk the fines and the rep damage and risk of being caught and loosing the whole cargo each trip?

 

[Yabba Addict]

You won't ever be able to buy goods and sell for profit on the black market... regardless of where you purchase them.
That would be exploitable.

Instead of just spouting your opinions, why don't you take a look at the dev post linked in the OP. Black market is supposed to be more profitable than trading, BUT you can't just sell any old prohibited items, there has to be a demand.

 

[excalibus]

I'm not a trader, but I will say that this is simply wrong. Trading should always be more profitable than anything, but not at a ludicrous amount.

If smuggling goods from a market is more profitable than trading, then why would anyone trade?
It would completely kill trading, and all the traders would go to smuggling.

because not everyone wants to risk being caught smuggling and the negative rep and fines that SHOULD come from being caught

 

[McWraith]

this statment is actually incorrect... totally incorrect...

You CAN buy slaves at a station that exports them and sell them on the black market for a profit...

BUT that said and as I have suggested in various smuggling threads, they need to relook at the illegal goods and make selling them profitable on the black market... as per the old elites where you could almost double your buying cost for selling illegal goods to a black market merchant...

The current system is pretty flawed in that one regard... because it seems they want people selling stolen goods at half price... okay make that the case but they need to make selling illegal goods that are not flagged as stolen at more than the buy price...

Personally I think it should be tied to the systems various statuses as well

So a system in a state of civil war will pay a lot more for any illegal weapons and armours...

Systems in a depression (Economic bust) will make luxury goods (high end consumer items, high end drugs etc) illegal temorarily and offer more money for smuggling them in...

Systems under a blockade, will pay more for all goods etc

Systems under economic boom will pay a lot more (double or triple buy price) for illegal drugs and even more for illegal rare drugs etc

I completely agree with that. It'd make the smuggling an actual career path

 

[Zeeman]

I'm not a trader, but I will say that this is simply wrong. Trading should always be more profitable than anything, but not at a ludicrous amount.

If smuggling goods from a market is more profitable than trading, then why would anyone trade?
It would completely kill trading, and all the traders would go to smuggling.

Yes, which is why no one bothers smuggling anything illegal in this world, because it is unprofitable...

Here's how smuggling illegal goods works. It's SUPER profitable... But there's a catch, the distribution network is limited, as are your channels, and thus, quantities are limited. That is what stops you making stupid amounts of money - IE - you won't be smuggling in a T-9 - you'll get scanned every time.

Cobra's, Asps,perhaps a very good Python pilot, but that's pushing it...

Smuggled goods should bring high profit margins, as they aren't normally accessible by legal means, thus the demand should be high in a degenerate universe.
Problems with smuggling is that you risk getting detected, so it's technically more challenging than simple trading. I don't think it'd kill trading but rather give purpose to smugglers.

I've never sold smuggled goods with a loss but that's simply because I've never bought them in the first place. I enjoy smuggling and I do it every time I have an opportunity. I think if you dedicate time and bring banned/sought goods to a station with a black market, you should be able to sell it with a hefty profit.

Kind of a shame that it works this way - smuggling of illegal goods that ar epurchased legally would be a more fun type of trading...

Z...

 

[Stocker]

smuggling illegal goods into a system is trading. yes I could take the goods to a system that will except the goods on the Gal Market. But Micheal put in the beta 1.2 thread that. to find out if the illegal goods are in high demand as you would for the Gal Market in the system you look at the prohibited list and the ones that are at the top are in high demand. Which going of the beta 1.2 thread post, the price for high demand goods should be changed to 25% above Gal Market.

Plus if your trying to change the influence in a system, filling that system with illegal goods will lower the main powers influence, just like trading the market will increase influence and cause a boom.

 

[McWraith]

I really hope that we'll see a shift in smuggling 'rules' soon. There seems to be a little movement in the right direction already.

I find the idea of trading rather dull but I'd love to engage in a proper smuggling scheme.

 

[Ben Ryder]

Plus if your trying to change the influence in a system, filling that system with illegal goods will lower the main powers influence, just like trading the market will increase influence and cause a boom.

Sounds interesting Sir. Have you seen this happen?

 

[Stocker]

Sounds interesting Sir. Have you seen this happen?

I;m trying to see, I'm trying to expand my faction to another system and because I'm a lone wolf, this I thought would lower the influential power of the Feds. Then I was going to do the Independent missions to increase there influence, then once the independents were above the Feds and in control of the station. I was going to then bring the market to Boom. Plus if there is a civil war I was going to get my viper and do some damage to the Feds.

But that will be the difficult way at this stage with the way the black market is. yes I could run at a loss but I'm sure a war lord wouldn't be into selling guns if you wasn't making just a little profit.

 

[excalibus]

I;m trying to see, I'm trying to expand my faction to another system and because I'm a lone wolf, this I thought would lower the influential power of the Feds. Then I was going to do the Independent missions to increase there influence, then once the independents were above the Feds and in control of the station. I was going to then bring the market to Boom. Plus if there is a civil war I was going to get my viper and do some damage to the Feds.

But that will be the difficult way at this stage with the way the black market is. yes I could run at a loss but I'm sure a war lord wouldn't be into selling guns if you wasn't making just a little profit.

it is possible to put a system into a state of civil war... it will happen pretty much once the controlling factions influence drops enough... I was (i do not know if it was me alone though) able to send LHS 1914 into a state of civil war and economic boom at the same time by doing many missions for the lesser factions as well as enough missions for the main faction to make me allied with them all lol... this was back just after release... so it should be possible for sure... though it will take a fair amount of time as I was spending 10 hours or more a day playing for about a week straight at the time...

 

[Stocker]

it is possible to put a system into a state of civil war... it will happen pretty much once the controlling factions influence drops enough... I was (i do not know if it was me alone though) able to send LHS 1914 into a state of civil war and economic boom at the same time by doing many missions for the lesser factions as well as enough missions for the main faction to make me allied with them all lol... this was back just after release... so it should be possible for sure... though it will take a fair amount of time as I was spending 10 hours or more a day playing for about a week straight at the time...

Well the other thing is that like Ben Ryder, I would like to do a different form of trading, and with so may people testing the persistent Universe that FD said you could do. they are doing the missions and stuff. I tried smuggling from the start and saw you would run at a loss, so I stopped.

But going of that thread, Micheal suggested that it was fixed and to find out the demand on products without looking being in the system was to look at the prohibited section of the system info page. And if the product is in high demand you should get 25% more to make smuggling worth trading illegal goods.

but if you buy from a system that sells the goods at a low price due to large quantity at the station. then you would think that if a systems illegal goods was at a high demand off the system info page then you would at least make a little profit.

That is why I made the post, to see if anyone else has tested the black market and if it is a bug or FD hasn't changed anything. Because if it is a bug then wouldn't you like to tell FD about it and get it fixed.