Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I've asked before but nobody replied as people were too busy insulting and condescending. So I'll ask again:

Would you have a problem with playing solo and private group modes on a different server then open mode? If so please say why.

My 3 problems are as follows.

1) Say I mainly want to play in Mobius, but my friends want to play in ALL. As it is right now its not a problem, as we can meet in a mode of our choice for our session before going back "home", if the above happened essentially it would mean i could never play with my friends again, or that we would all have to give up ALL for ever.

2) Solo uses next to no bandwidth, ALL and group play uses more. DB promised elite would still be playable with even very low bandwidth internet. This is not really practical if we have to ban our characters from ALL if we want to play on the train for a few hrs.

3) A lesser issue for me is it would be that you would completely remove for me what is the entire point of the group switching.
Initially I wanted to play in ALL but right now I feel the police system is broken, so am in Mobius. I DO want to go back to all if it is "fixed" however so hi sec means hi sec and anarchy means dangerous.

If FD took your solution I would be for ever banned from ALL . This is a minor issue tho, the unable to play with friends & unable to play on poor internet are the main two for me.

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Of course All of the above you could argue, well tough deal with it.......................!....... except that mode switching has been an advertised feature since 2012 so it would be a rotten trick to remove now.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Er... Football is referred to as Soccer outside the UK as you have Gaelic Football, Aussie Rules Football, American Football... And there's probably more... none of which is Soccer - Association Football is the original name and the soc bit comes from the Association part. Just because Soccer is called Football in the UK does not mean it is the same elsewhere in the world. If I mention football in Ireland I'm talking about Gaelic. If I say football in America, I'm screaming about the 49ers... well, I was. I now speak in hushed tones of embarrassment... there's always miracles...

But besides all that there is Elite Dangerous. Now, try calling it Eve? Is it anything else but Elite? No. Those who desire to make Elite a PvP Gank fest always complain about the mode switching because of the way they have operated in the past in other games. The mode switching makes the Gank fest much harder to achieve and that just spoils their game. The mode switching frustrates those minded to ruin other people's day.

I for one would be happy if you decided it was the wrong game for you. Until you do, I accept you right to moan about it in the forums... but we all know... It's called Soccer...

 

[Lenroc elisav]

My 3 problems are as follows.

1) Say I mainly want to play in Mobius, but my friends want to play in ALL. As it is right now its not a problem, as we can meet in a mode of our choice for our session before going back "home", if the above happened essentially it would mean i could never play with my friends again, or that we would all have to give up ALL for ever.

2) Solo uses next to no bandwidth, ALL and group play uses more. DB promised elite would still be playable with even very low bandwidth internet. This is not really practical if we have to ban our characters from ALL if we want to play on the train for a few hrs.

3) A lesser issue for me is it would be that you would completely remove for me what is the entire point of the group switching.
Initially I wanted to play in ALL but right now I feel the police system is broken, so am in Mobius. I DO want to go back to all if it is "fixed" however so hi sec means hi sec and anarchy means dangerous.

If FD took your solution I would be for ever banned from ALL . This is a minor issue tho, the unable to play with friends & unable to play on poor internet are the main two for me.

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Of course All of the above you could argue, well tough deal with it.......................!....... except that mode switching has been an advertised feature since 2012 so it would be a rotten trick to remove now.

Man I don't know what you are talking about! No sane developer would restrict user access to one mode or another and I think we can safely assume that FDevs are sane.
There are three ways to tackle this (hypothetically):
1. Make copy of your actual commander for each server when they split them and then each copy develops separately (like for beta testing).
2. Allow you to chose a server for your character and then allow you the creation of another for the other one.
3. Not my favorite but they can always use the same data base for character saves for both servers. This means you can switch between modes but your actions in solo and group will not affect the open server simulation.

Each one of this solutions would address your raised issues.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Man I don't know what you are talking about! No sane developer would restrict user access to one mode or another and I think we can safely assume that FDevs are sane.
There are three ways to tackle this (hypothetically):
1. Make copy of your actual commander for each server when they split them and then each copy develops separately (like for beta testing).
2. Allow you to chose a server for your character and then allow you the creation of another for the other one.
3. Not my favorite but they can always use the same data base for character saves for both servers. This means you can switch between modes but your actions in solo and group will not affect the open server simulation.

Each one of this solutions would address your raised issues.

1) Requires duplication of player effort between game modes if commanders progress is to be matched in each mode;
2) See immediately above;
3) Michael has already (fairly categorically) stated that all players share the same background simulation - I doubt that this will change.

 

[Antmax]

Er... Football is referred to as Soccer outside the UK as you have Gaelic Football, Aussie Rules Football, American Football... And there's probably more... none of which is Soccer - Association Football is the original name and the soc bit comes from the Association part. Just because Soccer is called Football in the UK does not mean it is the same elsewhere in the world. If I mention football in Ireland I'm talking about Gaelic. If I say football in America, I'm screaming about the 49ers... well, I was. I now speak in hushed tones of embarrassment... there's always miracles...

Most American "Soccer" teams still have football club in their name

 

[Lenroc elisav]

1) Requires duplication of player effort between game modes if commanders progress is to be matched in each mode;
2) See immediately above;
3) Michael has already (fairly categorically) stated that all players share the same background simulation - I doubt that this will change.

1. Do we have a dead line by when we have to finish Elite? Why you need to match anything? How about just relax, enjoy and use imagination sure you must of heard this around these forums .
2. See immediately above.
3. Yeah I know all one can hope is that Michael sees the error of his ways .

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Man I don't know what you are talking about!.

really? Not sure what else I can say then...... it seems obvious to me. Elite takes a HUGE amount of time to play, most people do not have the time to develop 2 separate characters, which is what you are suggesting.

your point 3 would be a waste of effort imo as the thing the majority of unhappy people complain about is bringing money from solo into all, which would still happen.

I think people just need to accept the game IS working as intended and IS working as advertised.

Sure you may not like it, but there is nothing to fix (on this part) IF FD suddenly did a U turn and said, actually you solo guys are going to be blocked from ALL from (insert date here), then the moaners now would be nothing compared to the storm which would happen then!. It would make offlinegate seem tame!.

 

[Robert Maynard]

1. Do we have a dead line by when we have to finish Elite? Why you need to match anything? How about just relax, enjoy and use imagination sure you must of heard this around these forums .
2. See immediately above.
3. Yeah I know all one can hope is that Michael sees the error of his ways .

1) Not at all - however being "forced" (by your proposed removal of the group switching feature) to expend double the time to maintain two distinct commanders seems to adversely affect only those who wish to play in more than one game mode.
2) See immediately above.
3) Some may hope for Frontier's position to change - others are quite content with the status quo.

 

[Ahriakin]

Without getting partisan on this one key argument that keeps being made is that Solo affecting Open is a debilitating issue - Lugh is being brought up again and again since it's a hot zone right now.

1. You are presuming that the players in Solo or Group are making entirely different Goal choices en-masse to those in Open when simple logic dictates that with the same basic motivations and across a large enough source pool they will average out to be the same. Whether players in Solo can have a bigger numerical impact on the goals is irrelevant as they are doing it in the same ratios you see in Open. A player in Solo might have a chance at more personal rewards due to less intense competition, but on the other hand they won't have the advantage of being in a wing etc. , there are pluses and minuses to both.
2. As was mentioned earlier a few times the game is limited to 32 players per instance, you have no real idea (beyond communication with more clan/faction/fiends on external services) what is happening in each different instance. You could have organised a large'ish group to dominate 2 instances and still only be representative of a tiny part of what is happening in that system. So why are there so many here pointing fingers at Solo as some haven for those that would dare to compete for a different side of the goal? Regardless of what mode you like this particular argument makes absolutely no sense as it has no observable factual basis.
3. It works both ways, Open affects Solo/Group aswell...so what. The universe moves in ways we (as players from all 3 domains) don't dictate or understand, em, again so what?

 

[Major Plonker]

Without getting partisan on this one key argument that keeps being made is that Solo affecting Open is a debilitating issue - Lugh is being brought up again and again since it's a hot zone right now.

1. You are presuming that the players in Solo or Group are making entirely different Goal choices en-masse to those in Open when simple logic dictates that with the same basic motivations and across a large enough source pool they will average out to be the same. Whether players in Solo can have a bigger numerical impact on the goals is irrelevant as they are doing it in the same ratios you see in Open. A player in Solo might have a chance at more personal rewards due to less intense competition, but on the other hand they won't have the advantage of being in a wing etc. , there are pluses and minuses to both.
2. As was mentioned earlier a few times the game is limited to 32 players per instance, you have no real idea (beyond communication with more clan/faction/fiends on external services) what is happening in each different instance. You could have organised a large'ish group to dominate 2 instances and still only be representative of a tiny part of what is happening in that system. So why are there so many here pointing fingers at Solo as some haven for those that would dare to compete for a different side of the goal? Regardless of what mode you like this particular argument makes absolutely no sense as it has no observable factual basis.
3. It works both ways, Open affects Solo/Group aswell...so what. The universe moves in ways we (as players from all 3 domains) don't dictate or understand, em, again so what?

Yeah, I've noticed the same, it's like they think the the CG is open vs solo, pretty funny stuff. It just makes me think, with that level of misunderstanding of the game mechanics there really is no point trying to argue with or educate them.

 

[Lenroc elisav]

1) Not at all - however being "forced" (by your proposed removal of the group switching feature) to expend double the time to maintain two distinct commanders seems to adversely affect only those who wish to play in more than one game mode.
2) See immediately above.
3) Some may hope for Frontier's position to change - others are quite content with the status quo.

1. Mantain hmmm I would really like you to elaborate on this. Avatars will be there waiting for you to play them. If you want them both in Condas i agree that you' ll have to gain double the money. But I feel that FD really understood that credits<fun and it will prolly be easy to manage that.
2. Developing a second avatar from scratch should be fun and not that hard as you know the ropes.
3. Game is good but it's easy fun with very little "feeling" invested. If they manage to get players " invested" I believe it will become great.

I enjoy the party in Lugh but it does show some game weakneses. Capital ship grinding and the intel goal that is one sided and outside opposite players interaction due to the solo mode. I actually tried to scan camp hartsfield station and managed to grab a few commanders with intel but when some just logged while i was scanning i abandoned the idea.
Mobile post so forgive typos pls.

 

[Walt Kerman]

1. Mantain hmmm I would really like you to elaborate on this. Avatars will be there waiting for you to play them. If you want them both in Condas i agree that you' ll have to gain double the money. But I feel that FD really understood that credits<fun and it will prolly be easy to manage that.
2. Developing a second avatar from scratch should be fun and not that hard as you know the ropes.
3. Game is good but it's easy fun with very little "feeling" invested. If they manage to get players " invested" I believe it will become great.

I enjoy the party in Lugh but it does show some game weakneses. Capital ship grinding and the intel goal that is one sided and outside opposite players interaction due to the solo mode. I actually tried to scan camp hartsfield station and managed to grab a few commanders with intel but when some just logged while i was scanning i abandoned the idea.
Mobile post so forgive typos pls.

Yes, this is exactly the problem. I believe having solo, private and open are important, but the very nature of this is going to spawn horrendous problems when it comes to competing factions. I honestly don't know how frontier is going to fix it.

 

[Joe Spivey]

Yes, this is exactly the problem. I believe having solo, private and open are important, but the very nature of this is going to spawn horrendous problems when it comes to competing factions. I honestly don't know how frontier is going to fix it.

There is nothing to fix. everything is working as planned regarding the modes. Even without the ability to mode hop as and when you want it would be impossible to 'camp' anything because of the instancing system.

 

[Asp Explorer]

There aren't any competing factions either but we'll have to see what Powerplay brings I suppose.

 

[DaveB]

...The game has changed its target audience...

No, it hasn't. What has happened is a bunch of folks who wanted a different game have bought into it either under the misconception that this was the game they wanted or thinking that by sheer volume of complaint they could force FD to make it into the game they wanted. All this forum noise is the result of them finding out that (a) it isn't and (b) they can't.

 

[Kaeldian]

It makes a difference in community goals when open, solo, and group are in direct competition for rewards and what faction takes over when the dangers faced are not the same between modes

/facepalm

No... it doesn't. Even if we were all in open people would be gaming the system to avoid you by exploiting the weaknesses of the P2P architecture.

Why does it bother you so bad? Stop and ask yourself this..... why does it bother you what people do... are we competing for money? News flash, triple elite prize has already been handed out. All we're doing right now is faffing about to kill time. There is no money on the line, nobody's lives are at stake. Stop taking these competitions so life and death seriously and you'll realize how stupid and meaningless your argument is.

 

[Antmax]

No, it hasn't. What has happened is a bunch of folks who wanted a different game have bought into it either under the misconception that this was the game they wanted or thinking that by sheer volume of complaint they could force FD to make it into the game they wanted. All this forum noise is the result of them finding out that (a) it isn't and (b) they can't.

This. Plus I think a lot of people assume that Xbox version = dumbed down kiddie game. Having played War Thunder for a year before it was released on the PS4 I can tell you that this isn't the case. PS4 players are actually more mature than the bulk of casual mouse aim players and play with more skill despite having the disadvantage of using a controller removing the 21st century fly by wire controls offered to mouse aim.

In that game cross platform play in the same battles. Though the PS4 players are identified by an * at the beginning of their nametag which is unfortunate because it makes them a target for the mouse aim folks because of the disadvantages of using joysticks and gamepads over mice in that particular game.

There is no reason to believe that ED will be somehow dumbed down by an Xbox release. In the end ED has more in common with a sim than an arcade game which is what a lot of the more competition arcade/mmo fans seem to dislike.

 

[OldSalt]

This whole argument about players not in open influencing open players efforts seems to imply that the non-open effect is only coming from one side ? is there any evidence on which way non opens effect outcomes of community goals ? Seriously, what do the facts tell us ? It might actually have a productive influence on this whole bun fight.

 

[Antmax]

BTW. This interesting Star Citizen poll was posted on another thread. The poll was put up after producers revealed that 80% of players are not into PvP. Was surprised and thought it quite interesting for those players stating the unfairness of the three modes regarding PvP when someone can solo for money and big ships and then proceed to own open play. I suspect there are even less PvP centric players in ED.

I always assumed that Star Citizen would attract a far bigger PvP crowd than ED. But the PvP players are a minority over there too. https://forums.robertsspaceindustri...arm-or-single-player-modes-not-pvp-poll-added

 

[Joe Spivey]

BTW. This interesting Star Citizen poll was posted on another thread. The poll was put up after producers revealed that 80% of players are not into PvP. Was surprised and thought it quite interesting for those players stating the unfairness of the three modes regarding PvP when someone can solo for money and big ships and then proceed to own open play. I suspect there are even less PvP centric players in ED.

I always assumed that Star Citizen would attract a far bigger PvP crowd than ED. But the PvP players are a minority over there too. https://forums.robertsspaceindustri...arm-or-single-player-modes-not-pvp-poll-added

The gaming industry is to blame, imo, for the creation of a generation who know of little else other than PvP games. PvP is easy to cater for, it doesn't require much thinking about. Arm the players and just let them have at it while they count the cash coming in. I don't know about SC but I do recall that a lot of the early forumites stated they were backing ED in the kickstarter precisely because the game was not PvP centred. Of course, word spread that at last there was a game that catered to and cared for those players who, for whatever reason, were not enamoured with the never ending conveyor belt production of the pew pew games. They wanted something... else, something... more. And so here they are.