Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[damj256]

As a Brit, I hate to see people do that whole "soccer" Vs "Football" rubbish, so here is a free educational lesson for those who seem to think there is a difference;

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/06/the-origin-of-the-word-soccer/


http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/football

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/soccer


There we go, this thread became educational - finally it serves a purpose

Sorry lets nail this one. The great John Cleese shall explain : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJZ44ANYyRg

 

[Lenroc elisav]

This is getting a bit ridiculous. We have people threatening with exploits, we have people that pretend that 5024 people in one group are not the same as 32 people in 157 groups, and we have people that say that this is not a first world problem as if anyone implied that. Oh and let's not forget about the ones saying "you are in the wrong game, begone" (well in a passive-aggressive way anyhow).
Really guys FD has the power and they may chose to listen or not at what we have to say, we all just have to assume that they want the best for their product.
Also it is very true that things are working as planned but (the proverbial but) some of us think that it's always room to improve a plan .

 

[DaveB]

This is getting a bit ridiculous. We have people threatening with exploits, we have people that pretend that 5024 people in one group are not the same as 32 people in 157 groups, and we have people that say that this is not a first world problem as if anyone implied that. Oh and let's not forget about the ones saying "you are in the wrong game, begone" (well in a passive-aggressive way anyhow).
Really guys FD has the power and they may chose to listen or not at what we have to say, we all just have to assume that they want the best for their product.
Also it is very true that things are working as planned but (the proverbial but) some of us think that it's always room to improve a plan .

There is always room to improve a plan, yes. FD do indeed want the "best" for their product. In this particular case they have decided that in their opinion - the only one that matters - "best" means the status quo. They do listen, they have listened and they have made their decision on this. Constantly revisiting it is counterproductive. Hence the black hole that is this thread, that only stays alive because somebody keeps having this "great new idea" and starts another one that ends up merged into it, or causes the merge by hijacking a thread on a different subject with comments about how the modes should be totally separate like a politician bringing up the latest imagined scandal in every unrelated debate.

 

[Ancipital]

3) Some may hope for Frontier's position to change

They may also enjoy pointing firearms at their own feet, and licking live power supplies. It would not only be a complete trashing of promises made regarding the fundamental game design, but would also drive a significant percentage of the playerbase away, meaning there will be fewer potential players of open mode overall. Not everyone wants to deal with febrile, quivering PvP tweens all the time, but enjoys setting fire to them occasionally- just like in MMOs.

As DaveB says above, this face-hurtingly stupid discussion only still exists because people keep have a "great new idea", an insight vouchsafed to them alone by dint of their brilliance. Because they're sure that no-one could ever possibly have had such a revolutionary idea before, there's obviously no need to check to see if there are any heavily-merged threadzillas running to hundreds of pages, where the excitable and incoherent have had the matter explained slowly to them, over and again.

The fact that the game's executive producer has repeatedly said "this will not happen", and that his opposition to the idea is as clear as politeness will allow clearly has no bearing on the matter.. because, you know.. the genius of utter originality.

 

[Lenroc elisav]

There is always room to improve a plan, yes. FD do indeed want the "best" for their product. In this particular case they have decided that in their opinion - the only one that matters - "best" means the status quo. They do listen, they have listened and they have made their decision on this. Constantly revisiting it is counterproductive. Hence the black hole that is this thread, that only stays alive because somebody keeps having this "great new idea" and starts another one that ends up merged into it, or causes the merge by hijacking a thread on a different subject with comments about how the modes should be totally separate like a politician bringing up the latest imagined scandal in every unrelated debate.

Fair points except the last one. Let people say what they think that what forums are for and the mods are doing a good job merging everything related here so if you are not interested just don't read. Well I'm off playing the game, catch you lot tomorrow .

 

[Walt Kerman]

There is nothing to fix. everything is working as planned regarding the modes. Even without the ability to mode hop as and when you want it would be impossible to 'camp' anything because of the instancing system.

You completely misunderstand. And just because something is working as planned doesn't mean it doesn't create issues with the rest of the game

There aren't any competing factions either but we'll have to see what Powerplay brings I suppose.

There are thousands of competing factions. Some of which are in civil war right now.

/facepalm

Why does it bother you so bad? Stop and ask yourself this..... why does it bother you what people do... are we competing for money? News flash, triple elite prize has already been handed out. All we're doing right now is faffing about to kill time. There is no money on the line, nobody's lives are at stake. Stop taking these competitions so life and death seriously and you'll realize how stupid and meaningless your argument is.

People care what others do when it involves destroying their favorite faction in game. Imagine if you associate with federation and it gets wiped out. Thats how the Lugh guys feel when feds sit in private instances using the capital ship to rake in kills, or alternatively on a smaller level its how the feds feel when the crimson state throws out the feds using private instances while atttacking the convoys. In both cases their isnt even a random chance for a player to show up and defend.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Ok I should clarify - there is only one player faction, the pilots federation.

 

[Walt Kerman]

Ok I should clarify - there is only one player faction, the pilots federation.

Yes but I wasn't refering to that, I was referring to the thousands of competing factions in game.

 

[Kaeldian]

People care what others do when it involves destroying their favorite faction in game. Imagine if you associate with federation and it gets wiped out. Thats how the Lugh guys feel when feds sit in private instances using the capital ship to rake in kills, or alternatively on a smaller level its how the feds feel when the crimson state throws out the feds using private instances while atttacking the convoys. In both cases their isnt even a random chance for a player to show up and defend.

I'm not so mentally imbalanced to care about pixel factions bud beyond "LOL, die CSM scum *pew pew pew* whew, that was fun, time to load up some World of Tanks for a bit". We win some, we lose some. Getting emotionally involved in something so bad that you get angry over things YOU CAN'T CONTROL is unhealthy and destroys the fun of the game not only for you, but toxifys you which spreads to the people around you.

Dude, take some advice from me - I used to be JUST LIKE YOU and care about these things. It nearly destroyed my passion for this hobby. Just.... let it go and play. You'll thank me for it later.

 

[Walt Kerman]

I'm not so mentally imbalanced to care about pixel factions bud beyond "LOL, die CSM scum *pew pew pew* whew, that was fun, time to load up some World of Tanks for a bit". We win some, we lose some. Getting emotionally involved in something so bad that you get angry over things YOU CAN'T CONTROL is unhealthy and destroys the fun of the game not only for you, but toxifys you which spreads to the people around you.

Dude, take some advice from me - I used to be JUST LIKE YOU and care about these things. It nearly destroyed my passion for this hobby. Just.... let it go and play. You'll thank me for it later.

Thanks for the insults but you misunderstand again. People aren't getting upset because they are losing but because their is nothing they can do about it. Also some people find it fun to support another faction and it doesn't necessarily make them mentally imbalanced. Personally I find it fun to be able to go over and attack the people that are hitting my faction. It would be a lot harder for them to exploit the capital ship in that manner if random player enemies were coming in as well.

Also judging by the way you approach people with differing opinions I highly doubt you were ever like me.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Yes but I wasn't refering to that, I was referring to the thousands of competing factions in game.

Yes there are thousands of factions in-game, and players can choose to align themselves so that their efforts aid or hinder (or completely ignore) those factions. Players never belong to any of them though.

 

[Walt Kerman]

Yes there are thousands of factions in-game, and players can choose to align themselves so that their efforts aid or hinder (or completely ignore) those factions. Players never belong to any of them though.

We agree.

By the way I'm not suggesting that we get rid of solo or private. I honestly don't know how frontier can handle it, but certainly they can't have these community goals the way it is without forcing people who want to be effective into private.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I honestly don't know how frontier can handle it, but certainly they can't have these community goals the way it is without forcing people who want to be effective into private.

I would rather that players retain the choice to determine for themselves which game mode to play in than freedom of movement were to be removed from all players to suit the play-style preconceptions of a subset of the player-base.

 

[ViciousMink]

I actually can grok the idea of wanting to separate progress in 'open' from progress in 'solo.' No, I really can. I think it's a fairly silly concern in a game like Elite: Dangereaux*, but I can understand it. And it may be unfair of me to consider those concerns 'silly,' but at this time, there's no real utility to having the subfactions/minor factions increase or decrease in influence. There might be faction allegiances in the future, and concrete advantages to one minor faction being ascendant or dominant in a system. I'm still not convinced, however, between the P2P networking structure and the limits on instancing, that even then there would be any worth to splitting out the background sim. As I see it, FDEV is all but deliberately hobbling the ability of players to form the sorts of stars-spanning corps that you see in EVE -- and I'm okay with that. This isn't a game about territory control; they don't want it to be, and a 'lot of folks' don't want it to be. (Take that with a lick of salt -- it's some nontrivial number significantly greater than 'zero' and significantly less than 'all.')

But again, I can understand this desire, so I'm not against ways to make it somewhat more... I don't know, equitable? Less hackle-rising at least. I don't think that splitting the background sim is going to do it, nor do I think limiting saves to one matchmaking mode or the other will. Maybe some sort of bonus tied into playing with others -- a wing is more than the sum of its parts, after all, and maybe clients would pay more for a wing of 4 than for four separate commanders doing the same thing? Maybe clients would pay more if they knew their cargo was on a ship that was being escorted or part of a convoy? Basically what I'm proposing is a fix for something I don't believe is broken, but ties into things -- like wings -- that solo players aren't going to get involved in anyway.

But you can switch groups, so... what, have to make a new background sim for every group you're a member of? And have a separate save for each? Does the above recomendations also apply to people in private groups? Why or why not? Seriously, people, Groups is the elephant in the room and complaining about Solo v. Open is utterly useless without taking Groups in all their permutations into account. I'm not against ideas for handling things like the interaction between solo/groups/open with regard to community goals (and faction influence if it ever becomes important in the game) but there are a LOT of factors to take into account that you really can't casually handwave.

But as for the people who just want more targets to shoot at: heck with 'em.


* - Sorry, I can't think of the game's name without hearing it in Strongbad's voice.

 

[Quarrel]

I just wanted to add my two cents, for what it is worth. I honestly only read a few pages on this thread as i didn't have a few hours to comb over it all.

Personally I think the idea of open and solo being connected as a universe is a little silly. I do understand the the choice of it, how it makes it easier to develop, handle and host. As a player though I really do not like it.

I was talking with other people about bounty hunting and how players could rack up a HUGE bounty then log into solo to jump through hot zones (or populated areas), then back up again into online when they are in a less dangerous area. (it almost even feels like cheating to be able to do this)

I have unfortunately come to the realization that it prob will never change, but it would be nice to see a time limit or some sort of restriction put in place. (oh you are wanted? sorry no solo, or wait a few days, etc...)

That is about it for me....

 

[Walt Kerman]

I would rather that players retain the choice to determine for themselves which game mode to play in than freedom of movement were to be removed from all players to suit the play-style preconceptions of a subset of the player-base.

I think what was once a 'subset' of the playerbase has grown to be a little more than that now as people have played and changed their minds, me being one of them.

I never suggested restricting freedom of movement. I didn't suggest anything actually.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I think what was once a 'subset' of the playerbase has grown to be a little more than that now as people have played and changed their minds, me being one of them.

I never suggested restricting freedom of movement. I didn't suggest anything actually.

Stats required (on both sides.... ). The removal of group switching and the separation of the background simulation such that open is not affected by any other mode are often called for by those who would restrict player choice to suit their play-style preferences. The "change the game!" advocates are certainly vocal in their protestations - this may make it seem like there are many. Bearing in mind that there are only maybe 10% to 20% of the total player-base registered on the forums and even fewer post regularly, it is difficult to assess the level of support for change with any degree of certainty.

 

[SahilD]

FD you need to read this.

​FD should understand that SOLO progress should be isolated from open play, that will give much more importance to the multiplayer part of the game, it is so dumb that solo progress just hops to open play whenever a player feels like, this discourages the people to be the part of multiplayer community, this affects the game to the extent that right now trading more sensible to be done in solo because of risk free, elite dangerous does feel like it was originally a single player game and later unplanned multiplayer was dumped to the game because they want to call it "MMO", what's the point of a MMO which is encouraging players to play it alone in solo and gives equal importance to the single player part of the game, I wonder how do ED hope to compete with star citizen when it comes out? I love this game and I'm kinda addicted to it and I don't want to see it fall because of stupid solo.

 

[bigtaff]

Off to the merge thread with you!

 

[Valethar]

Dead horse is dead. Beating it again, over and over, isn't going to make it do anything.