Smuggling and Black Market in 1.2.03

KellyR

KellyR
I responded the way I did because ReverendK said smuggling was no longer broken. It is still broken, just not smashed into little pieces like it was before. If it doesn't net you at least 2k per unit profit, then it's really not smuggling. It's just illegal trading. Illegal trading is definitely working, but smuggling is not.

And I won't engage in illegal trading due to the risk involved versus the payout. I will smuggle though (when they get it working right), because that compensates me for when I do get caught. And I'm a crafty smuggler. I won't get caught often.;)
 

Derath

D
incidentally I read one of the posters here talking about how black market wouldn't sell above regular because it would be exploitable, that isn't factoring in scooping time it really wouldn't be that bad, it takes about 30 minutes of straight scooping to get 200 cargo.
 

lysan

lysan
You need a lot of RP to get into character in the current version. Buy goods>fly to station where its illegal>sell in TEXT black market store> repeat.

I'm very sorry I can't immerse myself into that just now. GTA style please.
 

reverendK

R
i'm a huge fan of the button that says: "i want to sell illegal goods"

go to a shady corner and say that to a suspicious looking character some time. see if you get shot in the face.
 

KellyR

KellyR
Exploitable. Please. Of course it would be exploitable, if you were willing to take the risk of getting caught. That's what illegal activity is; exploitation.

Sounds to me like some don't want to take risks and want to make it so no one can take them and reap better profits than themselves.

And I do think outposts shouldn't buy it for quite as much as a main stream starport would. Say a main station buys it for 9000, an outpost will buy it for 8600 or 8700. You take a 300 to 400 credit per unit hit if you sell to an outpost. There's less risk in selling to an outpost so there should be less reward. But you still make 2600 to 2700 per unit profit as opposed to 3000 per unit. Myself, I'd always smuggle to outposts if I could. But then I'm a crafty smuggler who understands you make more when you don't get greedy on each individual transaction.
 

Ben Ryder

Ben Ryder
have only pottered around lately since my last smuggling outting.


Just had a look at the Lugh community goal. It's closer to piracy than to smuggling. Nothing is bought. It's stolen.

You can stop reading now :)

I've been playing it as a smuggler though as best I can; breaking the cargo hatch and scooping. Not engaging in any combat except absolutely in self defence and not choosing sides in combat. Flying around in the middle of a battle nicking cargo is a lot of fun as you dodge the T beams but it's not smuggling. The only element is getting it back to the station. The payout is great and it's a fun scenario but it's a mix of combat and piracy with just a pinch of smuggling on top. Apart from that, it once again highlights what I think and have thought since alpha / beta is one of the games biggest exploits; 'save and quit' reload and repeat or jump out and return (wow were are all friends again and you're all completely unaware that I was trying to rob and shoot you seconds ago!) rinse and repeat. And why on earth do none of the enemy have any kind of cargo scanner to ensure that your cargo is marked and you are hunted down as enemy number one for stealing military plans (I've had more hassle smuggling scrap that I found floating around)? Why in Space is the convoy in teh same place for so long? Sorry to digress.

Are there any more community goals that have an element of smuggling to try out? Or anything to see in the new permit systems?
 

Red Fox Four

Red Fox Four
Flappers said:
I'm not a trader, but I will say that this is simply wrong. Trading should always be more profitable than anything, but not at a ludicrous amount.

If smuggling goods from a market is more profitable than trading, then why would anyone trade?
It would completely kill trading, and all the traders would go to smuggling.
Click to expand...

What the backwards thinking batman!?!?

SMUGGLING should always be more profitable than trading!!!

Why else would anyone SMUGGLE!!!

If I buy bananas in south america and sell it in the US for the same profit per KG as I get from smuggling cocaine, then why would I take the RISK of SMUGGLING cocaine in the first place???

Bananas = trade
Cocaine = smuggle

Which one do you think should give you the most profit?

What do you think happened to import of alcohol in the US during the prohibition period in the 1920's? You think the price of alcohol remained constant? No, it skyrocketed as a result of being illegal, and thus generating a massive demand. So the mafia made massive profits from doing smuggling runs. It was risky, but it had a heck of a reward associated with it.

If I buy drugs in one station where it is legal then the sell price at a station where it is illegal (and wanted) should easily be twice as high and net me some good profit. Why else would I run the risk of smuggling in the first place? The WHOLE point of smuggling is to bring large cargo of illegal wares into a place where they are wanted for much higher profits than the regular market offers. Otherwise all that smuggled alcohol that went into the US during prohibition period could have just been sold in countries where it was legal, right?

Smuggling needs to be vastly improved in this game, and there needs to be a significant differentiation between smuggled trade goods (actual smuggling) and salvaged / scooped items. Smuggled trade goods have an investment cost associated (cause you have to buy the wares somewhere) while salvaged / scooped items, which may be illegal, have no investment cost since you literally picked it up for free.

The risk of smuggling should also be increased. Not only should you risk scanning at stations, but also interdiction and scanning during supercruise. Furthermore, the outposts should also be subject to patrols that actively cargo scan. Especially if it's a system that has had a lot of smuggling going into it. A natural response of the background simulation would be to increase the amount of NPC ships that perform scanning... and if players smuggle less again due to the active scanning then price will begin to rise again and thus make it attractive once more to smuggle into that system.

The whole reason I don't smuggle in this game is simply because the profits for smuggling is completely broken and leaves zero motivation to put myself at the risk of getting bounties since the rewards are minimal / non-existent.
 

KellyR

KellyR
Red Fox Four said:
What the backwards thinking batman!?!?

SMUGGLING should always be more profitable than trading!!!

Why else would anyone SMUGGLE!!!

If I buy bananas in south america and sell it in the US for the same profit per KG as I get from smuggling cocaine, then why would I take the RISK of SMUGGLING cocaine in the first place???

Bananas = trade
Cocaine = smuggle

Which one do you think should give you the most profit?

What do you think happened to import of alcohol in the US during the prohibition period in the 1920's? You think the price of alcohol remained constant? No, it skyrocketed as a result of being illegal, and thus generating a massive demand. So the mafia made massive profits from doing smuggling runs. It was risky, but it had a heck of a reward associated with it.

If I buy drugs in one station where it is legal then the sell price at a station where it is illegal (and wanted) should easily be twice as high and net me some good profit. Why else would I run the risk of smuggling in the first place? The WHOLE point of smuggling is to bring large cargo of illegal wares into a place where they are wanted for much higher profits than the regular market offers. Otherwise all that smuggled alcohol that went into the US during prohibition period could have just been sold in countries where it was legal, right?

Smuggling needs to be vastly improved in this game, and there needs to be a significant differentiation between smuggled trade goods (actual smuggling) and salvaged / scooped items. Smuggled trade goods have an investment cost associated (cause you have to buy the wares somewhere) while salvaged / scooped items, which may be illegal, have no investment cost since you literally picked it up for free.

The risk of smuggling should also be increased. Not only should you risk scanning at stations, but also interdiction and scanning during supercruise. Furthermore, the outposts should also be subject to patrols that actively cargo scan. Especially if it's a system that has had a lot of smuggling going into it. A natural response of the background simulation would be to increase the amount of NPC ships that perform scanning... and if players smuggle less again due to the active scanning then price will begin to rise again and thus make it attractive once more to smuggle into that system.

The whole reason I don't smuggle in this game is simply because the profits for smuggling is completely broken and leaves zero motivation to put myself at the risk of getting bounties since the rewards are minimal / non-existent.
Click to expand...

This ^. Every bit of it. Have some rep. Actually there's not enough rep in the universe for this comment.

 

reverendK

R
it's important to point out, though, that smuggling should only be more profitable in a transaction to transaction comparison
if the timeline is stretched out any decent duration you should see the OVERALL profits from smuggling fall below trade - due to fines and longer, more time consuming routes.

ben:
there's a community goal in khaka, qureshi station - to deliver weapons (both battle and personal apply) which are illegal in that system. i've been selling on their black market for 2 days now.
 
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Meritz

Meritz
So, here's a question. I operate in Lugh, hauling a nice load of Military Intelligence into the station. Vulture, so nothing too big. I keep my temp at 0%, silent running, everything going as usual, did that run I don't know how many times.

I get inside the station. Final approach, hovering above the pad.

**SCAN DETECTED**

. I slam into the pad and land.

Boom. Fined 400+k.

Well #@!$ you Feds I'm not paying that.

**SCAN DETECTED**

What the hell? What the hell is going o...

**SCAN DETECTED**

Get this ship into the hangar NOW!

Ok, I'm in the hangar, surely they can't scan me through wa...

**SCAN DETECTED**
**SCAN DETECTED**
**SCAN DETECTED**

So. What do you think guys? Authorities just got upgraded to Ludicruous or what?
 

Meritz

Meritz
Nope. Hartsfield station in Lugh, big one. Looks like a bug to me as well, especially since it repeated a dozen times. I only got fined once - that is, got fined for 400k and now in Transaction it says the fine is 700+k.

Thought it was a player scanning me, but player scans don't tip off authorities, right?
 

Doctor Axel

Doctor Axel
Meritz said:
Nope. Hartsfield station in Lugh, big one. Looks like a bug to me as well, especially since it repeated a dozen times. I only got fined once - that is, got fined for 400k and now in Transaction it says the fine is 700+k.

Thought it was a player scanning me, but player scans don't tip off authorities, right?
Click to expand...

Depends on the ship you're flying, these days - a recent patch made it so bigger, more conspicuous ships get scanned more often.
 

deathmagnet

deathmagnet
Meritz said:
Nope. Hartsfield station in Lugh, big one. Looks like a bug to me as well, especially since it repeated a dozen times. I only got fined once - that is, got fined for 400k and now in Transaction it says the fine is 700+k.

Thought it was a player scanning me, but player scans don't tip off authorities, right?
Click to expand...

Yes it does. Even if you are in the same wing you will get the fine. A few people from my group tested it. I think it's something they should fix. Players aren't police and some players are sitting outside stations just scanning them as they go through so the other CMDR gets hit with a massive fine.
 

Vasious

Vasious
deathmagnet said:
Yes it does. Even if you are in the same wing you will get the fine. A few people from my group tested it. I think it's something they should fix. Players aren't police and some players are sitting outside stations just scanning them as they go through so the other CMDR gets hit with a massive fine.
Click to expand...

It is because they have "Report Crimes" on.
If they swtich that off, their scans wont trigger the ship's computer dobbing them in.
 

Meritz

Meritz
deathmagnet said:
Yes it does. Even if you are in the same wing you will get the fine. A few people from my group tested it. I think it's something they should fix. Players aren't police and some players are sitting outside stations just scanning them as they go through so the other CMDR gets hit with a massive fine.
Click to expand...

That could be it. I suspected it, because you can now target ships even when they're docked.

Well that's . Players are not police. And I'm gonna extract that fine from the Feds in blood, you hear me, bloooood! *shakes fist*

Does this mean if you get KWSed by a player while wanted, the station will open fire at you? Ah well, might as well test it myself, the rebuy cost is half that of the bounty I'm going to have on my head. :p
 

Drelthar

Drelthar
Smuggling with small ships could work by simply limiting total demand (per commander) for goods, but having large profits per tonne. Until demand drops, and profit falls off sharply.
 
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