We need to increase speed and acceleration for EAGLE

[adoredtv]

I never could get my head around why when given the option of having more variety, people choose against it.

I just don't get it. What possible reason could there be for not trying to balance all the ships so that they have some kind of benefit to add? Look at Warzone ships - the Eagle is there, the Asp is there too. Is any player actually flying one in combat though? That shows that something went wrong with the balancing of those ships somewhere.

 

[BEKTOP 3APEMOB]

Another proof that Eagle needs more speed. Even to make PvE more interesting. See this video I just took today in a combat zone:
(might want to wait a bit for it to process to 1080p)
[video=youtube;h2gMBJGXaQY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2gMBJGXaQY[/video]

See how they can't kill a single Vulture. Even though there's like 15 of them + Uber Anaconda. They need more speed even for PvE encounters. I should have been obliterated in that situation.

 

[Gold Member]

OMG people. The Eagle doesn't need more speed. It needs smarter players. It can out fly anything else out there, including the Sidewinder.

 

[Mephane]

OMG people. The Eagle doesn't need more speed. It needs smarter players. It can out fly anything else out there, including the Sidewinder.

Out-turn yes, out-fly, hell no.

 

[Mohrgan]

How does you getting wrecked in a Vulture demonstrate the need for the Eagle to have more speed? The Eagle has a higher speed and boost than the Vulture already. What saved you there was your hull, which no one is recommending get altered on the Eagle.

 

[Gold Member]

Out-turn yes, out-fly, hell no.

Those thruster buttons work all the time. Keep your speed in the blue-zone and use your thrusters. You can cut your turn radius by up to 30% and get behind anything, including another Eagle who just wants to play with acceleration and fly in circles.

The trick with an Eagle is to also stay on top of your energy allocation. Frequent changes are needed to manage it properly so you can always burn when you need to, chaff when you need to, replenish your shield, and still have enough energy for beams.

I use 2 beams and a large caliber cannon on my Eagle. Beams to strip the shield, cannon to knock them senseless. And the nice thing about the cannon is it always hits, especially at close distances as they fly past at 5-600 m/s (your speed+ their speed).

 

[Mephane]

How does you getting wrecked in a Vulture demonstrate the need for the Eagle to have more speed? The Eagle has a higher speed and boost than the Vulture already. What saved you there was your hull, which no one is recommending get altered on the Eagle.

An A-rated Eagle is slower than an A-rated Vulture.

 

[Defacto]

An A-rated Eagle is slower than an A-rated Vulture.

Woah, I actually didn't know that. The Vulture is actually faster than I thought. I guess I didn't get enough experience from using it when I had it in the beta.
So... hang on. The Eagle is actually currently the slowest combat-leaning ship in the game.

 

[Mohrgan]

The Eagle base is 240/350, the base Vulture is 210/340. Tthe price of the upgraded modules on an Eagle can't even compare to the cost of a Vultures modules. Once again, price is disregarded as a factor.

 

[Defacto]

The Eagle base is 240/350, the base Vulture is 210/340. Tthe price of the upgraded modules on an Eagle can't even compare to the cost of a Vultures modules. Once again, price is disregarded as a factor.

It's pretty irrelevant, really. Especially when we are talking aout A-fitted ships, where the price is in the million in both cases.
Not to mention all the strength the Vulture has compared to the Eagle (it's even about as manueverable, and agility is basically the only thing the Eagle has).

 

[BEKTOP 3APEMOB]

The Eagle base is 240/350, the base Vulture is 210/340. Tthe price of the upgraded modules on an Eagle can't even compare to the cost of a Vultures modules. Once again, price is disregarded as a factor.

Eagle is also about 4 times smaller. It doesnt need super expensive thrusters to be able to fly faster.
And in the long term price should be disregarded when making decisions. Once you have 300kk in your account - you don't care much about it anyway.

 

[Mephane]

Woah, I actually didn't know that. The Vulture is actually faster than I thought. I guess I didn't get enough experience from using it when I had it in the beta.
So... hang on. The Eagle is actually currently the slowest combat-leaning ship in the game.

Yes, that is why this thread exists, after all . It's really weird even, because it scales less with A-rated thrusters than other ships. An Asp, too, starts out slower but maxes out faster.

Once you factor in the multi-role ships as potentially combat-leaning, the only combat-leaning ships slower than an Eagle are the Sidewinder (which would also need a buff in that regard), the Dropship and the Anaconda; Adder and Python reach about the same speed as an Eagle.

 

[Gold Member]

It's pretty irrelevant, really. Especially when we are talking aout A-fitted ships, where the price is in the million in both cases.
Not to mention all the strength the Vulture has compared to the Eagle (it's even about as manueverable, and agility is basically the only thing the Eagle has).

Agility and manouevreing are the same thing. Have you considered that inertia might also be important? An Eagle is much lighter, and speed changes happen very quickly. Drop your speed in a heavy ship and it feels like you're moving through molasses until the actual speed reduction catches up with your thrust.

 

[Defacto]

Agility and manouevreing are the same thing. Have you considered that inertia might also be important? An Eagle is much lighter, and speed changes happen very quickly. Drop your speed in a heavy ship and it feels like you're moving through molasses until the actual speed reduction catches up with your thrust.

Well yes. I'm not saying they aren't. Sorry if that's what it appeared like. What I mean: Not to mention all the strengths the Vulture has compared to the Eagle (it is even about as agile, and agility is basically thr only tihng the Eagle has).
Vultures are remarkably agile for their mass. Not that I find this a prolem, but what I do find surprising is that it actually also is faster than the Eagle with A-rated modules.

 

[Morbad]

I would like to claim something: Every ship in the game is dirt cheap and completely expendable.

I frequently fly with a total asset value equal to the ship I'm in plus two or three rebuy costs, which are not trivial to me. I do not consider my FDL expendable, since if I happen to crash it, I would be inconvenienced for several hours of game time, or more.

I just don't get it. What possible reason could there be for not trying to balance all the ships so that they have some kind of benefit to add? Look at Warzone ships - the Eagle is there, the Asp is there too. Is any player actually flying one in combat though? That shows that something went wrong with the balancing of those ships somewhere.

Those warzone ships are present in such variety to make vaguely plausible demographic and economic sense, and because a wing of Eagles does pack a punch for it's price.

A wing of CDMR Eagles is dangerous too, but a wing of any other combat ship should be, and is more dangerous. CMDR's are vastly more likely to be the elite privateers and mercenaries, not the grunts of the local navy or militia.

Not every NPC can be a superhero, and not many players want to play the part of fodder. This is not evidence of any balance problem.

The Eagle is actually currently the slowest combat-leaning ship in the game.

Except for the Anaconda, yes.

The Eagle base is 240/350, the base Vulture is 210/340. Tthe price of the upgraded modules on an Eagle can't even compare to the cost of a Vultures modules. Once again, price is disregarded as a factor.

Base is irrelevant.

And in the long term price should be disregarded when making decisions. Once you have 300kk in your account - you don't care much about it anyway.

How long do I have to play this game before I'm long term?

I don't have anywhere near 300 million credits, and won't for quite some time, and I've put in well over 500 hours since the pre-Gamma reset.

I have just enough to afford my FDL, rebuy it twice, and pay reasonable maintenance overhead.

Agility and manouevreing are the same thing. Have you considered that inertia might also be important? An Eagle is much lighter, and speed changes happen very quickly. Drop your speed in a heavy ship and it feels like you're moving through molasses until the actual speed reduction catches up with your thrust.

The Vulture has similar agility to the Eagle. Yes, it's larger, but it's engine power is plenty enough to compensate. They have similar acceleration, and similar ability for vector changes in combat. When it comes to acceleration, only the Viper is comparable to either of these ships, but the Viper rotates much slower, for less total agility.

 

[Morbad]

Bigger ships should have trouble fighting small interceptors - right now it's just a simple boost or two, turn around and fire a couple of times - that's it.

Not a problem with the ships, but how they are piloted. Anyone who follows a reversing or boosting ship that has superior speed and firepower is unequivocally an idiot. You should be using that time to escape in the opposite direction, not be lured to your destruction.

 

[BEKTOP 3APEMOB]

Not a problem with the ships, but how they are piloted. Anyone who follows a reversing or boosting ship that has superior speed and firepower is unequivocally an idiot. You should be using that time to escape in the opposite direction, not be lured to your destruction.

Well that is what I want to change - so people wouldn't be able to apply backward fighting tactics to Eagle. I don't want to run away, I want to fight. With speedier Eagle I could take my fight towards my target, not just wait until they want to come to me.
It would be more fun for everyone this way

 

[Gold Member]

I frequently fly with a total asset value equal to the ship I'm in plus two or three rebuy costs, which are not trivial to me. I do not consider my FDL expendable, since if I happen to crash it, I would be inconvenienced for several hours of game time, or more.



Those warzone ships are present in such variety to make vaguely plausible demographic and economic sense, and because a wing of Eagles does pack a punch for it's price.

A wing of CDMR Eagles is dangerous too, but a wing of any other combat ship should be, and is more dangerous. CMDR's are vastly more likely to be the elite privateers and mercenaries, not the grunts of the local navy or militia.

Not every NPC can be a superhero, and not many players want to play the part of fodder. This is not evidence of any balance problem.



Except for the Anaconda, yes.



Base is irrelevant.



How long do I have to play this game before I'm long term?

I don't have anywhere near 300 million credits, and won't for quite some time, and I've put in well over 500 hours since the pre-Gamma reset.

I have just enough to afford my FDL, rebuy it twice, and pay reasonable maintenance overhead.



The Vulture has similar agility to the Eagle. Yes, it's larger, but it's engine power is plenty enough to compensate. They have similar acceleration, and similar ability for vector changes in combat. When it comes to acceleration, only the Viper is comparable to either of these ships, but the Viper rotates much slower, for less total agility.

I get killed a lot more in my Viper than I do in my Eagle. The only thing about the Eagle is with 3 small hard points it takes too long to kill before people decide to run away.

 

[aterial]

There shouldn't be a direct progression that buying bigger ship makes you better at everything. Bigger ships should have trouble fighting small interceptors - right now it's just a simple boost or two, turn around and fire a couple of times - that's it.

About boost, turn and fire. Combat in space, without gravity (feels like some air is exist, but you fight in cosmos). In real space i bet it is even easier to do.

About big ships. If you mean bigger ships like t7 or t9 then yes. But no, if bigger ships means that ships have bigger guns, bigger (and so better) targeting modules, bigger engines. How about more, that bigger ships must have bigger radius of fire (as guns is bigger) and maybe even bigger TOP speed, as have bigger engines. Why battleship must have a problems from a fast boat with few machineguns on board?

Why can't big ship equip turrets, that immune to chaffs, cause crew will targeting (conda have 32men-crew). If you want balance, want Eagle to kill Anaconda in "fair" battle, then eagle must cost 146kk. Anaconda can't kill Asp cause it's faster (small ship), Asp can't kill Conda, cause it has more ability to kill. (big ship).

I don't think Eagle will have chance with your Vulture even if it will have more speed. I can agree with one: it's useless ship. Eagle and SW are only for new players, and totally useless as navy, auth or security.

 

[Adept]

2 days in an eagle gets you a Viper. I've flown a lot in both, the Eagle clearly is not as much fun.

The eagle loses it's "fun" because it has been gimped. If it was faster than the Viper, it would have a niche, and remain fun. Not powerful, but useful and fun.

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The Eagle base is 240/350, the base Vulture is 210/340. Tthe price of the upgraded modules on an Eagle can't even compare to the cost of a Vultures modules. Once again, price is disregarded as a factor.

Price is nearly worthless for balancing in games like this. Ignore it, and think of niches.