The Star Citizen Thread v 3.0

[Mu77ley]

It's looking like you're the one with the reading comprehension problem, here. His comment is pretty clear. The main blocker for large numbers of players in a single instance isn't the ability to support it on the networking side, but on the clientside ability to actually render that many ships.

The full quote is actually "The hard question here is not just, can we get the server to support lots of players in large environments (I am fairly sure we can), the hard question is how do we get the CLIENT to support lots of players in close draw distances (I am not an engine programmer, so I don't know).". He doesn't say anything about "blockers" at all. This is your lack of knowledge leading you to take the stated 2+2 and come up with 5.

Not only that, the "dev" you're quoting is actually just an operations manager (he says so himself in an earlier post), who in the actual quote you linked specifically says "I am not an engine programmer, so I don't know".

A client not being able to render all players locally will cause lag for that player only, and will mean his ship will jump around a bit for other players. It will have no effect on the instance other than that, and is no different to any other game out there.

Try doing a little bit of research yourself: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Networking-Online-Games-Understanding-Engineering/dp/0470018577

 

[skypine27]

I've spent a lot of money on backing SC they have some options for controller balance. Off the top of my head:

1. Completely remove gimbals from the game. Weapons will be fixed or turret. Manned turrets will either be controlled by rented NPCs or Human players (using mouse aim obviously). Unmanned blister-type turrets are AI software controlled (like the turrets in ED)

2. Keep gimbals in game, but force them to AI track, same as ED (my preference as a joystick And mouse player, I've used both)

3. Keep gimbals in game, but give the player the option to have them AI track (like ED) or manual mouse-aim (like current system)

If their devs take none of the above actions, as a player I see a couple of choices:

1. Abandon the game completely

2. Surrender to mouse aim and abandon your joystick for fighter-type dogfighting (the likely option for many players)

3. Abandon light fighter type spacecraft w/ gimbals (Super Hornet, Mustang Delta, etc) and fly only medium or larger sized combat ships w/ NPC or AI turrets like Redeemer, Retaliator, Phoenix, Vanguard, Idris, etc (This is my personal choice if the devs take no action)

4. Abandon space combat completely and fly the non combat ships, Starfarer, Caterpillar, Orion, Reclaimer, Merchantman, Hull-C etc (I mean hell, there are already lots of ED players on the forums that scream at the top of their lungs that trading should pay more than all other professions, Elite is a space trading game, I never into combat, blah blah blah. These type of players will exist in SC too.)

5. Abandon space flight completely and fly as a gunner crewman for one of your buddies

6. Abandon space completely and concentrate on the ground first person shooter stuff.

As a summary, I would like to see their devs take action #2 so I have the option of enjoying joystick OR mouse controlled space to space combat in light fighter ships w/o being slaughtered by Call of Duty / BF4 players on Ritalin head shot-ing everyone with their gimbals left and right. But even if their Devs do NOTHING to help controller parity, players still have options #2-6 (without quitting the game like option #1), with my personal choice being Option #3: Big Ship Pilot

 

[Stormprooter]

I've spent a lot of money on backing SC they have some options for controller balance. Off the top of my head:

1. Completely remove gimbals from the game. Weapons will be fixed or turret. Manned turrets will either be controlled by rented NPCs or Human players (using mouse aim obviously). Unmanned blister-type turrets are AI software controlled (like the turrets in ED)

2. Keep gimbals in game, but force them to AI track, same as ED (my preference as a joystick And mouse player, I've used both)

3. Keep gimbals in game, but give the player the option to have them AI track (like ED) or manual mouse-aim (like current system)

If their devs take none of the above actions, as a player I see a couple of choices:

1. Abandon the game completely

2. Surrender to mouse aim and abandon your joystick for fighter-type dogfighting (the likely option for many players)

3. Abandon light fighter type spacecraft w/ gimbals (Super Hornet, Mustang Delta, etc) and fly only medium or larger sized combat ships w/ NPC or AI turrets like Redeemer, Retaliator, Phoenix, Vanguard, Idris, etc (This is my personal choice if the devs take no action)

4. Abandon space combat completely and fly the non combat ships, Starfarer, Caterpillar, Orion, Reclaimer, Merchantman, Hull-C etc (I mean hell, there are already lots of ED players on the forums that scream at the top of their lungs that trading should pay more than all other professions, Elite is a space trading game, I never into combat, blah blah blah. These type of players will exist in SC too.)

5. Abandon space flight completely and fly as a gunner crewman for one of your buddies

6. Abandon space completely and concentrate on the ground first person shooter stuff.

As a summary, I would like to see their devs take action #2 so I have the option of enjoying joystick OR mouse controlled space to space combat in light fighter ships w/o being slaughtered by Call of Duty / BF4 players on Ritalin head shot-ing everyone with their gimbals left and right. But even if their Devs do NOTHING to help controller parity, players still have options #2-6 (without quitting the game like option #1), with my personal choice being Option #3: Big Ship Pilot

Edit:

I made a Poll on the SC forums to see what their players think:
https://forums.robertsspaceindustri...se-we-don-t-have-enough-of-them-now-with-poll

From what I can gather (personal perception of the little I have read), there does seem to be a growing call to separate aim/flight for the mouse and remove manual mouse gimbal aiming alltogether. Personally, I agree with this sentiment, the gimbal system used in Elite: Dangerous seems to work really well - so why CIG remain so pig-headed about their system is a little confusing. They did already use auto-aiming for gimbals in AC 0.8 (remember that everyone?) because they thought shooting accurately would be too difficult for us (at that time).
The big problem is that CIG have let the genie out of the bottle, and I suspect many mousers would be up in arms if the current gimbal system was changed at this stage.
Many of us stick users have been banging on about this since last April, as for a possible answer, I really am not sure. Is there a way to keep manual gimbal aiming, introduce AI gimbal aiming and keep them on some kind of par? Perhaps when flying using the zero-order mode (aim + flight in one), the manual gimbal aim gets the same innaccuracy (via an innaccuracy cone) as AI gimbal aim (which will wobble like E: D) when using a stick/gamepad/HOTAS ? ? ?

I dunno - but something needs to be done . . .

 

[Neo-ST]

Yeah...it's all part of an evil plot by CIG to lure poor joystick players in! Because that makes total sense.

I've been with them since 2012, even before 2012 GDC, while we didn't even know what will ships or the game look like. All we had was names and vague descriptions of ships, such as "Constellation - multi role space superiority craft".
Then, after 2012 GDC, Chris talked about how SC will be HOTAS-heavy, true space sim with simulated thrusters, bla bla bla...
Shortly after, Ben Lesnick acknowledged that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4wsWsh3kWM&feature=youtu.be&t=39m20s
Yet what did we get?
You can try to twist the plot, mock us, or whatever, but the facts are there, whether you like them or not.

So why would they be in the works on a Star Citizen branded HOTAS then? Wouldn't that be counter-productive to their "evil plot"?

Or could it be, perhaps, that it just isn't balanced to where they want it? You know, with this being pre-alpha and all.

First of all, they are insulting HOTAS users with a) their current flight/targetting model and b) constantly having HOTASes on all their live events, yet never using them. Even CR avoids using them because, guess what? The game sucks with them.
But then, why do they do all that? Surely it seems counter-productive?

Also, I think it's time people stop hiding behind "pre-pre-pre-Alpha" adjective. This is now Star Citizen 1.1 and I'm not sure if it's even Alpha anymore.

Regarding the "evil plot"... the only thing that's evil in all this is constant diminishing, mocking and false presenting of the real problems this game is currently dealing with.
Such actions, whose sole purpose is to silent the "dissatisfied ones" and present the game in better light, is ultimately only gonna hurt the game, everyone else, and turn down serious gamers, who (in normal circumstances) would be the backbone of the player base.

Yes, it definitely isn't "balanced" to where they want it.
It wasn't balanced in 0.8, 0.9, 0.9.2, 0.9.2.1, 0.9.2.2, 1.0, 1.0.1, and now 1.1.

$77 Millions and CORE MECHANICS are bad. CORE, not some graphical glitches, CORE.
Just when I remember how much it took them to incorporate basic keybinding option, give me a break...

 

[huzeeta]

From what I can gather (personal perception of the little I have read), there does seem to be a growing call to separate aim/flight for the mouse and remove manual mouse gimbal aiming alltogether. Personally, I agree with this sentiment, the gimbal system used in Elite: Dangerous seems to work really well - so why CIG remain so pig-headed about their system is a little confusing. They did already use auto-aiming for gimbals in AC 0.8 (remember that everyone?) because they thought shooting accurately would be too difficult for us (at that time).
The big problem is that CIG have let the genie out of the bottle, and I suspect many mousers would be up in arms if the current gimbal system was changed at this stage.
Many of us stick users have been banging on about this since last April, as for a possible answer, I really am not sure. Is there a way to keep manual gimbal aiming, introduce AI gimbal aiming and keep them on some kind of par? Perhaps when flying using the zero-order mode (aim + flight in one), the manual gimbal aim gets the same innaccuracy (via an innaccuracy cone) as AI gimbal aim (which will wobble like E: D) when using a stick/gamepad/HOTAS ? ? ?

I dunno - but something needs to be done . . .

Here's my proposal:

I would simply remove the Freelancer'ish Aim2Fly control scheme for mouse. Manual gimble aim can be activated (Mouse and Stick), but you would loose your control to yaw/pitch etc. as long as you don't have another input device (HOMAS, TIR, OR etc.). This should work fine and M/Kb users would have a slight advantage at manual aiming, while HOTAS users would have a advantage at maneuvering the ship, without having control schemes that are too easy or big balancing problems.

 

[Helfix]

I've been with them since 2012, even before 2012 GDC, while we didn't even know what will ships or the game look like. All we had was names and vague descriptions of ships, such as "Constellation - multi role space superiority craft".
Then, after 2012 GDC, Chris talked about how SC will be HOTAS-heavy, true space sim with simulated thrusters, bla bla bla...
Shortly after, Ben Lesnick acknowledged that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4wsWsh3kWM&feature=youtu.be&t=39m20s
Yet what did we get?
You can try to twist the plot, mock us, or whatever, but the facts are there, whether you like them or not.





First of all, they are insulting HOTAS users with a) their current flight/targetting model and b) constantly having HOTASes on all their live events, yet never using them. Even CR avoids using them because, guess what? The game sucks with them.
But then, why do they do all that? Surely it seems counter-productive?

Also, I think it's time people stop hiding behind "pre-pre-pre-Alpha" adjective. This is now Star Citizen 1.1 and I'm not sure if it's even Alpha anymore.

Regarding the "evil plot"... the only thing that's evil in all this is constant diminishing, mocking and false presenting of the real problems this game is currently dealing with.
Such actions, whose sole purpose is to silent the "dissatisfied ones" and present the game in better light, is ultimately only gonna hurt the game, everyone else, and turn down serious gamers, who (in normal circumstances) would be the backbone of the player base.

Yes, it definitely isn't "balanced" to where they want it.
It wasn't balanced in 0.8, 0.9, 0.9.2, 0.9.2.1, 0.9.2.2, 1.0, 1.0.1, and now 1.1.

$77 Millions and CORE MECHANICS are bad. CORE, not some graphical glitches, CORE.
Just when I remember how much it took them to incorporate basic keybinding option, give me a break...

That summarizes a lot of good points and my issue with posters such as Mr.Nowak, Ripley and Bot. They all try to sweep the core issues at hand under a rug and try to hide everything under "WIP".

The CORE of this game is still not there and its very very faulty, it has been since AC launch, yet CIG wants to launch SQ 42 in less than 6-7 months yet there have barely been any changes in AC past 8 months.

 

[Zetta]

That summarizes a lot of good points and my issue with posters such as Mr.Nowak, Ripley and Bot. They all try to sweep the core issues at hand under a rug and try to hide everything under "WIP".

The CORE of this game is still not there and its very very faulty, it has been since AC launch, yet CIG wants to launch SQ 42 in less than 6-7 months yet there have barely been any changes in AC past 8 months.

Seems quite common behaviour in general, ie - http://massivelyop.net/2015/03/30/s...pt-purchases-for-the-aegis-vanguard/#comments

 

[Pomerlaw]

I'm not sure about that.

Personnaly I am a backer, how can you be more open minded than this? I never played space sims, only arcade shooters. What is missing for me is the importance of flying. I don't really care what the flight model is, but flying the ship in any situation (including combat) should be at least as important as aiming. Right now it feels to me aiming is way more important, I mostly just have to click and shoot.

 

[1500]

I think you have hit the nail on the head here and it illustrates where the main problem lies:
I see a common denominator in most of the people that complain about the flight model and how terrible the HOTAS is in SC: they are invariably veteran flight simmers and have a very specific idea how their ship should control or "feel" which makes them a tad dogmatic with this issue.

Someone like me on the other hand had never used a flightstick prior to SC and ED, just like you. The only "flight sim" Ive played before then was Microsoft Flight simulator with a keyboard. Now when I played SC for the first time, it just felt wrong using a mouse and keyboard. I did not know what I was missing or what I wanted but I just knew it wasn't this. There was a kind of disconnect between me and the ship, I was not "flying" the ship, I was pointing at somewhere and telling it to go there.

So I decided to buy a joystick (TM16000) and the experience was exponentially better! Now I was actually "flying" my ship and it was immense fun maneuvering through the asteroids and dodging missiles. I dont care that some monoboating Super Hornet player is clicking about the screen racking up "kills" and "winning" because Im just having too much fun using a joystick and I would never ever go back to use keyboard and mouse just to have an advantage.

I fully understand the fact that there needs to be parity between the controllers and to be fair CIG has started the admittedly long journey with the size reduction on gimballed mounts. I guess what Im trying to say is that those people that have approached SC with a more open mind and without preconceived notions and expectations of what a "sim" should be seem to be enjoying the experience more.

Just my 2 cents.

My first flight stick that I purchased I did so for SC, turns out it was crap for SC (along with flight sticks in general), then used it for ED and loved it. SC is not about flying your ship its about aiming your guns, makes it great for mouse, horrible for flight sticks.

So i have to disagree with you. Your response basically comes off as, "if you don't like SC's flight, then its because you don't have an open mind". So basically the same trash responses that get thrown around, being critical of SC, well you didn't do your research, don't like the direction SC is going, well you have not been following it as long, pointing out the P2W, well... hey look at all the money CIG have brought in.

Instead of making generalizations to pidgin hole every single bit of criticism perhaps for a change if the concern and criticism was actually addressed, instead of just coming up with another blanket excuse to invalidate their opinion.

 

[Clawhammer]

I think you have hit the nail on the head here and it illustrates where the main problem lies:
I see a common denominator in most of the people that complain about the flight model and how terrible the HOTAS is in SC: they are invariably veteran flight simmers and have a very specific idea how their ship should control or "feel" which makes them a tad dogmatic with this issue.

Someone like me on the other hand had never used a flightstick prior to SC and ED, just like you. The only "flight sim" Ive played before then was Microsoft Flight simulator with a keyboard. Now when I played SC for the first time, it just felt wrong using a mouse and keyboard. I did not know what I was missing or what I wanted but I just knew it wasn't this. There was a kind of disconnect between me and the ship, I was not "flying" the ship, I was pointing at somewhere and telling it to go there.

So I decided to buy a joystick (TM16000) and the experience was exponentially better! Now I was actually "flying" my ship and it was immense fun maneuvering through the asteroids and dodging missiles. I dont care that some monoboating Super Hornet player is clicking about the screen racking up "kills" and "winning" because Im just having too much fun using a joystick and I would never ever go back to use keyboard and mouse just to have an advantage.

I fully understand the fact that there needs to be parity between the controllers and to be fair CIG has started the admittedly long journey with the size reduction on gimballed mounts. I guess what Im trying to say is that those people that have approached SC with a more open mind and without preconceived notions and expectations of what a "sim" should be seem to be enjoying the experience more.

Just my 2 cents.

++++

Fully agree

I also can not play this game with mouse, nor i dont know anyone in my orgs that prefer mouse over hotas. Iam very happy how it feels to fly.

 

[Nick 'Paradox' Parker]

I

So I decided to buy a joystick (TM16000) and the experience was exponentially better! Now I was actually "flying" my ship and it was immense fun maneuvering through the asteroids and dodging missiles. I dont care that some monoboating Super Hornet player is clicking about the screen racking up "kills" and "winning" because Im just having too much fun using a joystick and I would never ever go back to use keyboard and mouse just to have an advantage.

I fully understand the fact that there needs to be parity between the controllers and to be fair CIG has started the admittedly long journey with the size reduction on gimballed mounts. I guess what Im trying to say is that those people that have approached SC with a more open mind and without preconceived notions and expectations of what a "sim" should be seem to be enjoying the experience more.

Just my 2 cents.

It's good that you were able to step outside your comfort zone and try using a flightstick instead of a mouse. You should be commended for your efforts. But as one of the 'flight combat sim' veterans you spoke of we don't get pleasure out of the feel of flying our ships with our flightsticks. It is about competition against someone who is also skilled at flying and fighting. When you engage such a person not only does it make the event more exciting but you find more appreciation in not just your skill but the skill of your opponent. You are involved in a real competition against a worthy foe. You feel it and you know your opponent feels it. At times during the battle you even spot and realize when you made mistakes and your opponent goes through the same. In the video provided below you get sort of a sense for the experience. It is often times the best Cat and Mouse (No pun intended.) chase imaginable. In most recorded AC dogfights where the pilots are not using gimbals you can tell the difference in combat. The experience is epic and the winner as well as the loser feel a real sense of achievement. That is not what a gimbal user has earned. They are not flying and they have learned nothing from the experience. They are pointing and clicking their guns while the ship lags behind and follows. Why would losing to a player using the game as an FPS still be fun to me instead of actually flying and fighting against a pilot who is maneuvering their ship and truly competing against me?

One thing I have learned in flight combat sims is that even when you find yourself at a disadvantage you can still change the situation for the better. When your opponents are actually flying their ship you could be engaged by 3 Bandits and still stand a good chance of still escaping and surviving the fight if you are the better pilot. If you have three players point and clicking all they have to do is get there tracers on you and melt your ship within seconds of contact. They haven't flown their ship an accomplished anything through the use of skill. They just all pointed their cursor at you and walked their fire onto your ship. And of course they will boast and brag about how they just added another kill to their position on the leaderboard. But when you actually fight against someone that is actually flying their ship and has the skill to get rounds on target and keep them on target THAT is when you have achieved something, that is when you have displayed real skill, and that is when there was real fun to be had by both parties. The majority of players lack that strength and skill to truly compete. If you think I'm wrong just ask them to fly against you without gimbals and see how many use the cheesy excuse that you are just trying to be 'Elitist' or that you need to learn how to play the sim with gimbals because they are there to be used. I have even seen someone come off as completely honest and without shame, stating that they should not have to be forced to fly their ship. I guess I can try to imagine what it would feel like if flying your ship instead of your gimbals made the average 60 hours to acquire a Constellation become 150 hours or more.

Most gamers so not want to work to achieve anything worth while. They just want to get all the best weapons and best gear as quickly as possible to begin their quest for domination. To most gamers skill comes from how fast you click your mouse, how well you macro your keyboard and gamepad commands, and how fast you can acquire the largest weapon and alphastrike their target. None of these are skill to even the average flight combat sim pilot and they are all unacceptable for competition. If combat resembled any form of FPS it is being modeled wrong and CIG knows it which is why they have been ignoring the request for additional data on weapons and gimbals accuracy to be given. Too bad the program will not be fixed for the better.


AC COMBAT CAMERA SHIP Part 5 by Jack Frak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46Roek7p4R8

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

++++

Fully agree

I also can not play this game with mouse, nor i dont know anyone in my orgs that prefer mouse over hotas. Iam very happy how it feels to fly.

How does someone agree that they are having so much fun with their flightstick that it is okay for them to be ripped in the butt by easymode gimbal players? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

 

[Clawhammer]

How does someone agree that they are having so much fun with their flightstick that it is okay for them to be ripped in the butt by easymode gimbal players? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Cause i dont have these problems.

 

[Stormprooter]

Here's my proposal:
I would simply remove the Freelancer'ish Aim2Fly control scheme for mouse. Manual gimble aim can be activated (Mouse and Stick), but you would loose your control to yaw/pitch etc. as long as you don't have another input device (HOMAS, TIR, OR etc.). This should work fine and M/Kb users would have a slight advantage at manual aiming, while HOTAS users would have a advantage at maneuvering the ship, without having control schemes that are too easy or big balancing problems.

I would remove manual gimbal aiming altogether and have auto-aim/weapons tracking (except for someone sat in a turret, the player would have complete control using mouse like a FPS - when we get to that), the auto-tracking would have a built-in level of innacuracy and can be befuddled by things like chaff and other ecm, and I would keep the easy-mode flight for mouse. I'm pretty sure that would level the playing field (having experience from E: D).
I think it is the simplest option, next to doing nothing at all.

Note: Auto-aim has already been done in AC - it was in 0.8.

 

[skypine27]

The fan base over there is even more irritable and fanatical than the ones here. You know how in the ED forums when someone who likes dogfighting or exploring comes on and says something like "....the other profession's income needs to be buffed to equal trading..." and the professional traders come on and start screaming "Elite is a TRADING game! GET USED TO IT! I LOVE TRADING!! TRADING SHOULD BE THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE MONEY FOR END GAME SHIPS!!"

well imagine that times 10 or 20 over at StarCitizen.

You go on there and politely suggest AI controlled auto aiming for gimbals (and not even mention your joystick or mouse) since after all it is the year 3500 supposedly and ED and WarThunder already handle this mechanic beautifully and you will be insta slammed by mouse players "MUH SKILL BASED!! MUH SKILLZ!! GO BACK TO ED YOU PLEB!" Amazingly even some joystick users will say the exact same thing. The majority of gamers there seem to prefer the mouse-aim Call of Duty in space head shot style of game play over a flight sim type game where the emphasis is on flying.

I didnt play back in 0.8 or whenever it was SC had auto tracking for gimbals, but I wish CIG had never dropped that mechanic. The majority of the current forum base won't even begin listen to something reasonable like "You can keep manual aim on your gimbals if you want but we are giving everyone the option to turn on auto aiming if they want it...."

if things don't change by the time it goes live, either trash your hotas and become a mouse-er or $$$-up and buy a bigger ship with "real" turrets (which CIG has said will be manned by NPCs or actual players, so in effect you get the auto aim ED has) like a Retaliator or Phoenix (which is what I did)

 

[Stormprooter]

The fan base over there is even more irritable and fanatical than the ones here. You know how in the ED forums when someone who likes dogfighting or exploring comes on and says something like "....the other profession's income needs to be buffed to equal trading..." and the professional traders come on and start screaming "Elite is a TRADING game! GET USED TO IT! I LOVE TRADING!! TRADING SHOULD BE THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE MONEY FOR END GAME SHIPS!!"

well imagine that times 10 or 20 over at StarCitizen.

You go on there and politely suggest AI controlled auto aiming for gimbals (and not even mention your joystick or mouse) since after all it is the year 3500 supposedly and ED and WarThunder already handle this mechanic beautifully and you will be insta slammed by mouse players "MUH SKILL BASED!! MUH SKILLZ!! GO BACK TO ED YOU PLEB!" Amazingly even some joystick users will say the exact same thing. The majority of gamers there seem to prefer the mouse-aim Call of Duty in space head shot style of game play over a flight sim type game where the emphasis is on flying.

I didnt play back in 0.8 or whenever it was SC had auto tracking for gimbals, but I wish CIG had never dropped that mechanic. The majority of the current forum base won't even begin listen to something reasonable like "You can keep manual aim on your gimbals if you want but we are giving everyone the option to turn on auto aiming if they want it...."

if things don't change by the time it goes live, either trash your hotas and become a mouse-er or $$$-up and buy a bigger ship with "real" turrets (which CIG has said will be manned by NPCs or actual players, so in effect you get the auto aim ED has) like a Retaliator or Phoenix (which is what I did)

Yep, the genie is out of the bottle with the mouse aim/flight combo, and it's completely understandable that the majority of mousers would not want it changed, as they would perceive it as a nerf to their current advantage over other control types. It is a rare thing to see folks who would easily give up such an advantage - I know that if it were me, I would at least be deeply conflicted about it.
As it stands, I refuse point blank to fly my ship with a mouse, it simply is not as enjoyable as far as I am concerned - it's a spaceship, in my mind, it should be flown with a stick. I am not against those who use the mouse though - each to their own.

 

[SuperG]

I don'tthink it that easy. It easyfor those gamers who don't give a ... About other gamers.

CR state that they can't please every one because gamer differ and lot of options are in conflict with each other. Then this genre is a multy gameplay genre merging type of game. So you don't want to scew the non combatans to hard.

So it is not easy dev make choice. Catering for specivic audience.
For SC it still very open and not final.

But keep in mind with these very data driven engines they can always rebalanse the game after release.

My guess the priority is low due to feature not implemented jet, where balansing depend on.

When the pu comes in beta with also multycrew gameplay fleshed out. You get to a more final state as feature complete in perspective of game balans. When every feature that touches combat in any way, is taken into acount for game balans.
In that fase gameplay balans got high preority.

That no easy task.

 

[Stormprooter]

I don'tthink it that easy. It easyfor those gamers who don't give a ... About other gamers.

CR state that they can't please every one because gamer differ and lot of options are in conflict with each other. Then this genre is a multy gameplay genre merging type of game. So you don't want to scew the non combatans to hard.

So it is not easy dev make choice. Catering for specivic audience.
For SC it still very open and not final.

But keep in mind with these very data driven engines they can always rebalanse the game after release.

My guess the priority is low due to feature not implemented jet, where balansing depend on.

When the pu comes in beta with also multycrew gameplay fleshed out. You get to a more final state as feature complete in perspective of game balans. When every feature that touches combat in any way, is taken into acount for game balans.
In that fase gameplay balans got high preority.

That no easy task.

Yep, I agree - it's a difficult thing to get right.

 

[Nick 'Paradox' Parker]

The fan base over there is even more irritable and fanatical than the ones here. You know how in the ED forums when someone who likes dogfighting or exploring comes on and says something like "....the other profession's income needs to be buffed to equal trading..." and the professional traders come on and start screaming "Elite is a TRADING game! GET USED TO IT! I LOVE TRADING!! TRADING SHOULD BE THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE MONEY FOR END GAME SHIPS!!"

well imagine that times 10 or 20 over at StarCitizen.

You go on there and politely suggest AI controlled auto aiming for gimbals (and not even mention your joystick or mouse) since after all it is the year 3500 supposedly and ED and WarThunder already handle this mechanic beautifully and you will be insta slammed by mouse players "MUH SKILL BASED!! MUH SKILLZ!! GO BACK TO ED YOU PLEB!" Amazingly even some joystick users will say the exact same thing. The majority of gamers there seem to prefer the mouse-aim Call of Duty in space head shot style of game play over a flight sim type game where the emphasis is on flying.

I didnt play back in 0.8 or whenever it was SC had auto tracking for gimbals, but I wish CIG had never dropped that mechanic. The majority of the current forum base won't even begin listen to something reasonable like "You can keep manual aim on your gimbals if you want but we are giving everyone the option to turn on auto aiming if they want it...."

if things don't change by the time it goes live, either trash your hotas and become a mouse-er or $$$-up and buy a bigger ship with "real" turrets (which CIG has said will be manned by NPCs or actual players, so in effect you get the auto aim ED has) like a Retaliator or Phoenix (which is what I did)

Here is a heads up for you. Most of those people calling for gimbals to remain or calling for the game to remain mostly mouse controlled are not flightstick pilots or HOTAS pilots, they are actually people who do play with mouse as CIG's level of 'transparency' does not account for people that are using flightstick and mouse. Some of them use the stick to fly in some general direction almost free f any g-force limits and use their mouse to easymode their gimbals. I have seen people requesting that the data for sich configurations be displayed and CIG refuses because they are hell bent on pushing ESP to work instead of just leaving gimbals up to a gunner or an onboard system. No pilot worth his salt is going to ask for mouse controlled gimbals when they are so easymode. Any person that claims they are a flightstick pilot yet wants mouse controlled gimbals is just a Mouser with an agenda. Those types are so weal of mind they don't even realize that they are proving E's move to restrict yaw as the correct move. They are so determined that they seriously think that the gun size reduction is going to be enough to balance things, and they know time is of the essence. They always say to wait and see because they know that it is a hell of a lot more difficult to change things when beta hits. Beta is supposed to land in September. They are just trying to burn time in hopes that the point will come where getting rid of gimbals or tying them to an ship's onboard system would be impractical.

Most people don't even seem to know that HOTAS is not an insta-win controller. You don't suddenly end up with a system where your flying and accuracy just magically improves when using HOTAS. You still have to work for your kills. I fly a flightstick and keyboard, a throttle controller isn't going to help me much at all.

 

[Nick 'Paradox' Parker]

I don'tthink it that easy. It easyfor those gamers who don't give a ... About other gamers.

CR state that they can't please every one because gamer differ and lot of options are in conflict with each other. Then this genre is a multy gameplay genre merging type of game. So you don't want to scew the non combatans to hard.

So it is not easy dev make choice. Catering for specivic audience.
For SC it still very open and not final.

But keep in mind with these very data driven engines they can always rebalanse the game after release.

My guess the priority is low due to feature not implemented jet, where balansing depend on.

When the pu comes in beta with also multycrew gameplay fleshed out. You get to a more final state as feature complete in perspective of game balans. When every feature that touches combat in any way, is taken into acount for game balans.
In that fase gameplay balans got high preority.

That no easy task.

I remember during the first year how people were going to 'guns arm' when a PS/Xbox type controller was spotted on someone's desk. They were all literally like, "WTH is that doing there? we don't want any console in this game THAT IS NOT WHAT I PLEDGED FOR!" That was when the population was at 200,000. Now that there are a massive number of casuals/modern gamers with an additional 600,000 being picked up it is no surprise that they want their low quality easymode gaming to dominate.

 

[MPC]

Wired did a piece on Star Citizen:

http://www.wired.com/2015/03/fans-dropped-77m-guys-buggy-half-built-game/?mbid=social_fb

Edit:

I just read it, and even though it has a bit of a clickbaity title, it is quite good. It is funny reading on the RSI forums that some people are complaining about the article "hating on SC", and then being asked by people who read the whole article if they actually read it. Since it's quite a complimentary article. xD

So, remember to read the whole thing and not just the title xD

Edit 2: The image they used is pretty funny

http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/ff_crowdcommander_f-660x842.jpg