Looks to me the cat has discovered Hyperspace travel between the stairs and the table.
It's a start!
General / Off-Topic Hyperspace travel explained by NASA
- Thread starter Norbert
- Start date
Looks to me the cat has discovered Hyperspace travel between the stairs and the table.
It's a start!
It is NOT off topic, no matter how much some people complain.
There is not a SINGLE person here who has the education or background to have ANY sort of meaningful thing to say about the article because it is so far ahead of anyone of us.
So tell me, what DO you want to discuss that is not laughable considering the complex topic of theoretical warp drive physics? What aspect will you discuss?
Anyone? Anyone? What angle shall we ponder on here then. Please bring it in, I am happy to talk about something else. Cutting edge science is an interest of mine.
Stop begging for moderators to come in.
The thread has gone off on a bit of a tangent to say the least.
In respect of the original post, can we go back on topic and try to stay there?
Thanks everyone.
Excuse me, what IS the topic? And can you please define for me what the boundaries of acceptable discussion are? What are we limited to? Theoretical physics? Quantum mechanics?
Or the Star Trek Vulcan ship picture? The Alcubierre Drive? Spheroid objects?
Come on man. I will never accept censorship.
Come on man. I will never accept censorship.
No one's trying to censor you. Start a new thread if you want.
Hi Variform,
In no way was my previous post censoring anyones opinion. It was a polite request for posts in the thread to stay roughly on the topic of NASA and FTL engines.
We understand that threads do tend to evolve as they progress, I myself am as guilty of this as anyone. Occasionally we will ask for posts to return to the original subject matter if as in this case, we feel it had moved off topic a bit too far..
If you wish to discuss the ethics behind science, feel free to create a thread in the off-topic section.
In no way was my previous post censoring anyones opinion. It was a polite request for posts in the thread to stay roughly on the topic of NASA and FTL engines.
We understand that threads do tend to evolve as they progress, I myself am as guilty of this as anyone. Occasionally we will ask for posts to return to the original subject matter if as in this case, we feel it had moved off topic a bit too far..
If you wish to discuss the ethics behind science, feel free to create a thread in the off-topic section.
If he was censoring, he wouldn't have suggested making another thread on it.
it is censering , by seperating the two they then become .... oh whats the word .... seperate issues. if we were to do that to war/state survailance etc that would not be a reasonable situation. war has to have ethics/morales or else the geneva convention would never have been written. but as with this topic state survailance is fairly devoid of ethical/moral questions on the most part , exept with respect to who the survailance is (suposidly) aimed at.
What has your post got to do with the OP? Nothing, imo. If you want to engage in a discussion on the moral and ethical rights and wrongs of [insert topic], please do so. But do it in the 'Off Topic' section. Censorship is the suppression of communication, whereas T.j. merely asks that you conduct your debate in the appropriate area.
Though running a thread on the real world theories of Hyperspace belongs in an off-topic section too really. It's hardly ED Gameplay and Features except in the most tenuous of fashions (both involve Hyperspace). If the whole thread was moved to the Off-Topic section, then at least both aspects of the debate would be in the right place - should make everyone happy.
Putting my pedantic cap on, I could argue that hyperspace travel is a key feature of the Elite universe and people on here seem to like discussing the rationale for the fiction part of the science fiction. But I can see where you're coming from. Anyhoo, enough from me as I'm now off-topic meself.
It has taken me literally decades to come to this mentality of technorealism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technorealism
Quote:
"Technorealism is an attempt to expand the middle ground between Techno-utopianism and Neo-Luddism by assessing the social and political implications of technologies so that people might all have more control over the shape of their future. The technorealist approach involves a continuous critical examination of how technologies might help or hinder people in the struggle to improve the quality of their lives, their communities, and their economic, social, and political structures."
So to me technology, such a warp drives or FTL drives or whatever you wanna name it, cannot be regarded disconnected from the real world. For me technology or science for that matter, is not an abstraction.
I learned of this word only a few years ago but it fit the way I thought about technology.
Most people are not used to consider the moral or ethical implications of technology at all, rather, they accept technology without criticism or judgment.
In this topic there is only so much you can say about such drives because we lack the background in such advanced physics. So staying 'on-topic' has only a limited reach.
I have a saying: 'What use is it for babies to discuss the nutritional value of porridge if they only smear each other with it.'
That is why I injected these notions of technorealism so that at least that aspect could be highlighted because I think they are worthy notions to explore.
To me it is an important discussion because simply, as I described, we are not just talking about some technology to improve the quality of, say, LCD screens. Or a new type of digital to analogue converter.
Going to the stars using some interstellar drive system will literally be the end of the world as we know it. In the same way that the world has changed in the last two decades under the impact of ICT.
We can see the results of that in our daily lives and how it affects us rarely seems a topic of debate. We embrace rather than critically assess the situation.
What do we have. We have smart phones but the intelligence communities around the world use it to track you. This is not paranoia, yesterday the Washington Post revealed the NSA is gathering and datamining data from over 5 billion smart phones out of a total of around 6.8 billion phones. And if you haven't kept up with current affairs, where have you been hiding?
This impact enormously on our privacy and autonomy. The world has changed considerably.
So in the same way a FTL drive would change society irrevocably. So is it not better people discuss the consequences beforehand rather than what we do normally, introduce a technology and then let's just see where the chips may fall.
At first the appearance of warp drive on the stage would not mean much, in the same way ITER doesn't mean much at the moment.
A first flight might be scheduled. More prototypes build. Expeditions planned to go to nearby stars. Meanwhile, people on Earth will start to see the possibilities.
I can see how different countries will build their own warp ships. And what role will the UN play when the americans fight the chinese claiming Titan for themselves? Are we going to remain sovereign countries grabbing what we can in a new land rush, or will we establish some UN counsel so thatw e go as one to the stars?
Who will have access to these ships? Will it be the universities that patent their research and devices? Will it be governments that own the research? And would they be willing to share them?
And who will, when ready, colonize other worlds? Will rich westerners go or will we send away poor people with the hope they will have a better life on another world?
But what a scandalous situation would that be, that we cannot create a good life for all on Earth yet we send them off into the unknown so we don't have to feel guilty for not sharing our wealth or not being able to distribute wealth rationally and morally.
FTL drive capability throws everything up for grabs. Will society be able to cope?
Technologies of that magnitude need to be carefully considered. Do we really want to export current paradigms into space so that in many thousands of years, like in so many games, there will be a Federation and an Empire that wage war on themselves in the same way we do so on Earth now?
So FTL drives are not just a technology, that is, nuts and bolts machines. They are paradigm-changers, they are cultural affected concepts, they are new memes, they are diversionary objects and possibly the opposite. A whole new ballgame.
To me those aspects are more important and quite a bit more relevant than the nits and bolts discussion, that no one here really understands anyway. Unless we have a resident theoretical closet physicist, but even then, he can write but can we understand?
So there is a whole dimension to technology many people are unaware of or see just parts of now and then in the news but we are all deeply indoctrinated by accepting technology in society without criticism. When something appear in the shop, we assess it in terms of how it makes our life better individually, but do not reject something because it alters society at large.
I find these notions and ideas worthy and very rewarding to explore and I welcome any insight or ideas. Ideas are what I live for really, in so that I might expand my understanding of the world we live in through interaction.
And for that reason I do not like it when people suggest it is off-topic. Technorealism should be attached to every technology and sometimes it will be more appropriate and sometimes maybe less so, as discussions flow. You may not want to talk about it, but then ignore it but don't try to impose restrictions on what should be acceptable opinion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technorealism
Quote:
"Technorealism is an attempt to expand the middle ground between Techno-utopianism and Neo-Luddism by assessing the social and political implications of technologies so that people might all have more control over the shape of their future. The technorealist approach involves a continuous critical examination of how technologies might help or hinder people in the struggle to improve the quality of their lives, their communities, and their economic, social, and political structures."
So to me technology, such a warp drives or FTL drives or whatever you wanna name it, cannot be regarded disconnected from the real world. For me technology or science for that matter, is not an abstraction.
I learned of this word only a few years ago but it fit the way I thought about technology.
Most people are not used to consider the moral or ethical implications of technology at all, rather, they accept technology without criticism or judgment.
In this topic there is only so much you can say about such drives because we lack the background in such advanced physics. So staying 'on-topic' has only a limited reach.
I have a saying: 'What use is it for babies to discuss the nutritional value of porridge if they only smear each other with it.'
That is why I injected these notions of technorealism so that at least that aspect could be highlighted because I think they are worthy notions to explore.
To me it is an important discussion because simply, as I described, we are not just talking about some technology to improve the quality of, say, LCD screens. Or a new type of digital to analogue converter.
Going to the stars using some interstellar drive system will literally be the end of the world as we know it. In the same way that the world has changed in the last two decades under the impact of ICT.
We can see the results of that in our daily lives and how it affects us rarely seems a topic of debate. We embrace rather than critically assess the situation.
What do we have. We have smart phones but the intelligence communities around the world use it to track you. This is not paranoia, yesterday the Washington Post revealed the NSA is gathering and datamining data from over 5 billion smart phones out of a total of around 6.8 billion phones. And if you haven't kept up with current affairs, where have you been hiding?
This impact enormously on our privacy and autonomy. The world has changed considerably.
So in the same way a FTL drive would change society irrevocably. So is it not better people discuss the consequences beforehand rather than what we do normally, introduce a technology and then let's just see where the chips may fall.
At first the appearance of warp drive on the stage would not mean much, in the same way ITER doesn't mean much at the moment.
A first flight might be scheduled. More prototypes build. Expeditions planned to go to nearby stars. Meanwhile, people on Earth will start to see the possibilities.
I can see how different countries will build their own warp ships. And what role will the UN play when the americans fight the chinese claiming Titan for themselves? Are we going to remain sovereign countries grabbing what we can in a new land rush, or will we establish some UN counsel so thatw e go as one to the stars?
Who will have access to these ships? Will it be the universities that patent their research and devices? Will it be governments that own the research? And would they be willing to share them?
And who will, when ready, colonize other worlds? Will rich westerners go or will we send away poor people with the hope they will have a better life on another world?
But what a scandalous situation would that be, that we cannot create a good life for all on Earth yet we send them off into the unknown so we don't have to feel guilty for not sharing our wealth or not being able to distribute wealth rationally and morally.
FTL drive capability throws everything up for grabs. Will society be able to cope?
Technologies of that magnitude need to be carefully considered. Do we really want to export current paradigms into space so that in many thousands of years, like in so many games, there will be a Federation and an Empire that wage war on themselves in the same way we do so on Earth now?
So FTL drives are not just a technology, that is, nuts and bolts machines. They are paradigm-changers, they are cultural affected concepts, they are new memes, they are diversionary objects and possibly the opposite. A whole new ballgame.
To me those aspects are more important and quite a bit more relevant than the nits and bolts discussion, that no one here really understands anyway. Unless we have a resident theoretical closet physicist, but even then, he can write but can we understand?
So there is a whole dimension to technology many people are unaware of or see just parts of now and then in the news but we are all deeply indoctrinated by accepting technology in society without criticism. When something appear in the shop, we assess it in terms of how it makes our life better individually, but do not reject something because it alters society at large.
I find these notions and ideas worthy and very rewarding to explore and I welcome any insight or ideas. Ideas are what I live for really, in so that I might expand my understanding of the world we live in through interaction.
And for that reason I do not like it when people suggest it is off-topic. Technorealism should be attached to every technology and sometimes it will be more appropriate and sometimes maybe less so, as discussions flow. You may not want to talk about it, but then ignore it but don't try to impose restrictions on what should be acceptable opinion.
I have a background in physics, I'd happily discuss this topic if you weren't trampling all over it. Others here have tried responding on topic, but you've ignored them and stuck to extolling your world views.
I'm all for discussing the morals and implications of the technology too, but your posts have for the most part not been about the FTL technology but about technology/science in general. It's like having a discussion on a specific type of RAM and turning it into a rant against the societal impact of all computers. If you did this for every topic on technology it would make the forums impossible to use.
There are forum rules in place to keep things on topic because it helps group conversation and encourage more responses in that area. The moderators persistently split and merge topics on these lines because it makes the forums far easier to navigate and read. Most of us really appreciate their tireless work in this area!
There's nothing stopping you starting a new topic about technorealism. This isn't censorship, it's a formal way of shaping discussion for the benefit of everyone.
It is NOT off topic, no matter how much some people complain.
There is not a SINGLE person here who has the education or background to have ANY sort of meaningful thing to say about the article because it is so far ahead of anyone of us.
So tell me, what DO you want to discuss that is not laughable considering the complex topic of theoretical warp drive physics? What aspect will you discuss?
Anyone? Anyone? What angle shall we ponder on here then. Please bring it in, I am happy to talk about something else. Cutting edge science is an interest of mine.
Stop begging for moderators to come in.
One can discuss about the matter even without a physical background. A simple look in Wikipedia reveals quite alot info about the current state of the development:
But there are also work done by people who arguing that a drive similar to the original construction can not be constructed:
and another quote
Overall it should be quite clear that the current theories can neither exclude the possibility of a warp drive nor give a convincing way of how to construct one. Without a working theory there can also be no serious construction done by NASA. End of story.
I disagree. I have been quite specific about warp drives. But I do clad it with perspective. I do not behave like a scientists, to reduce everything to bite sized proportions.
For the moment it is way beyond me. It is a technical discussion that is way over my head. Will be a long time before they get anywhere.
But the important point is that it is a meme and it might cause some people to open up to the idea and from there on it might gain momentum and so more and more people get on board, no pun intended.
First there has to be a dream and we've seen that expressed in science fiction and games.