New Backer - Can't help but feel a little shortchanged

[WhoaTony]

Firstly, I understand that this game has a generally much more mature community than most, so please hear me out. I would just like to gain a better perspective of what I pledged into.

I pledged at the £32 tier level today after hearing that early backer rewards would soon be unavailable. I haven't been following this game closely, but heard enough buzz to convince me that it wasn't likely to be a total flop. However, after I had pledged, I'm wondering more and more whether that amount of money was really worth it.

It seems to me that the 'sweet spot' of owning this game is at the £80 mark which seems like a rather high asking price. The fact that many seemingly core upcoming features are planned for DLC instead was very off-putting. Exactly how much is this DLC going to cost and how many are there that £80 is considered a good deal? Exactly what are we promised for buying just the base game?

Same goes for pre-release access. Having to pay so much for early access doesn't really make sense to me when the whole point of pre-releases is to have a large user base to draw feedback and bug reports from.

I hate to draw the obvious comparison, but as a Star Citizen original backer, when they have $30 for the full game, alpha/beta, all future updates and gameplay functionality, as well as no private investors, I want to know how the high price for Elite is justified.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to play this game and I like the concept, just not enough to spend another £48.

 

[Bingo Brewster]

My assumption is that future expansions will cost pretty well as much as the original game, so for that reason alone it seems good value, not to mention the other rewards included in that pledge level

I have not backed SC (no time to play) but as I understand it, they have a bunch of other ways to persuade you to part with your money on top of the 30$ that you mention

 

[jedt]

you aren't buying anything.

you are backing the development of the game, it is a different transaction.

 

[Andrew Sayers]

Welcome WhoaTony

The scope of the game is quite similar to Star Citizen, but planet-side and walking about will be DLC later on. You're right to say £80 is generally seen as the sweet spot, as it gets you access to future DLC. It also buys access to the private backer's forum, which many see as insurance against an influx of noise like the SC forums have been subject to - that forum has been pretty quiet this year, but we expect people will be unable to get in after the backer's app closes so the community is guaranteed to stay nice.

Frontier haven't talked about prices for the final game yet, but the two confirmed updates (walking about and seamless planetary landing) are expected to be fairly meaty expansions. There will probably be others, but you're probably better off saving your money if that doesn't feel like £80 of value to you.

As jedt says, the current system (which closes later today) was designed for a very different purpose to SC. I think the high prices were intended more as a way of measuring how much people wanted the game than enticing them to want it more, so if stuff like the alpha doesn't sound like your cup of tea, it probably isn't.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

It seems to me that the 'sweet spot' of owning this game is at the £80 mark which seems like a rather high asking price. The fact that many seemingly core upcoming features are planned for DLC instead was very off-putting. Exactly how much is this DLC going to cost and how many are there that £80 is considered a good deal? Exactly what are we promised for buying just the base game?

I won't comment on pre-release access, early adopters usually shell out higher sums. It depends on crowdfunding strategy really. Roberts did their own way, David - his own. If you think pre-release access is too costly, take copy of the game and just wait for gamma as rest of us do

Now, to more important question - what initial release includes and what it is all about digital downloads pack at 80 pounds?

First, initial version will include all you can imagine, except - walking on ships, stations, planets, moons, and landing on planets, moons and atmospheric flight.

Reasoning behind this that FD wants to do it very detailed, fully fledged way. They don't want to add landings at initial release - which they could do easily, but when landing you wouldn't see no animal life, no trees, no proper clouds...all this things require good chunk of development time and money. Same with walking - there's no reason to add walking if you don't add NPC dialogs and activities around it. Again, it's huge amount of work.

So what is left for initial version? Well, I think core aspect of the game - flying ship, it's management, it's customization, space, realistic systems, combat, all wonders of exploration, thrill of trading, chase of pirates (or pirates chasing you), huge NPC battles where you can participate, living, thriving space stations, etc. etc. etc.

As you see, initial release will offer huge amount of content. Now, FD will release *content* updates for free. They will charge only for expansions, which will add completely new layer of game play.

That's what 80 pounds tier is for. It also includes digital official novel, digital sound track, three additional starting options with three classic ships, access to second level beta, and access to Private Backer Forum.

Also main reason of FD doing this that they don't want to delay initial game.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

I look at the future expansions as not simple 'tag-ons' to the game but whole new games in themselves. The fact that FD haven't included the ability to walk around ships, stations, cities, and colonies, or land your ship on planetary surfaces at first, and are instead going to dedicate significant time and resources into each of those aspects (possible a year or more) tells me they will be worth every penny.

So I guess the £80 tier is there if you believe FD can deliver expansions that are worth £30 each. If they can and there is to be a 4th, 5th, 6th expansion in times to come then that initial investment will be worth it.

 

[Rogehans]

All the posts here give superb advise on the £80 tier. grab it while you can!!

 

[WhoaTony]

Ah thanks for the responses guys, it's starting to make a little more sense.

Ok, so my mind is a little more at ease about not immediately paying for the expansions. I guess they are in fact old fashioned 'expansions' and not the light content 'DLC' that the term implies.

It kinda seems like these expansions will not really involve the space-sim aspects of gameplay much, my only concern is that too much of the content that we can do in space will be pushed to being only available from restricted areas (planets, stations). In other words, I still want to be able to fully enjoy the 'space' aspect of the game without suddenly feeling like I'm missing out on key elements.

I guess we'll see... now that I've pledged, I want this game to be as good as possible along with everyone else

All the posts here give superb advise on the £80 tier. grab it while you can!!

Yeah, I really can't justify it to myself at the moment. I'm holding out for a few new PC related upgrades first (such as a decent HOTAS).
Unfortunately I'm not a part of the seemingly majority here with a decent disposable income. I do however already like this community more than what SC's been reduced to.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I must admit I do see where you are coming from. One of the reasons I have sacked off consoles this time around is becasue generally pc games are much cheaper.
£80 on the other hand is in no way cheap, but then it does depend on what you compare it to....
If you imagine Elite is going to last for 5 years, with numerous DLCs, well compared to games like WOW or EVE or iracing which not only charge for the game also charge a monthly fee, then over 5 years all of a sudden £80 is not too bad.
But yesm I agree compared to many games it is a lot. Again though, I just shelled out £55 for Battlefield 4. Sure it is less than £80, but, equally in 18 months time the game will be done, BF5 will come out which will be another £55.

IF you think Elite is only a game you will dabble in for a few years you should stick to your £32 pledge, which from what I understands essentially gives you a massively improved version of the original game.
You can play that and either ignore the other stuff, or wait till it is on sale.

If there is one thing I know about PC games is they have crazy sales!.
I see my investment (which I upgraded to £90 from an initial £32) as not only a FULL copy of the game with any and all DLC, but also a show of faith to the devs to give the cash up front to make sure the game is everything it possibly can be. I also like the idea of the collectible stuff you get with the £90 pack.

Star Citizen, does look cheaper initially, I am only in that one to the sum of £42, but on the other hand DLC WONT be included in that price, Squadron 42 is rumoured to be having multiple DLCs which costs extra.

Then there is microtransactions....... to be honest I will be pretty cheesed off if I feel either games pressure me into paying out more cash. Time will tell on that front but from what I have seen so far, I am more worried about Star Citizen on that front.

 

[Kipper]

It kinda seems like these expansions will not really involve the space-sim aspects of gameplay much, my only concern is that too much of the content that we can do in space will be pushed to being only available from restricted areas (planets, stations). In other words, I still want to be able to fully enjoy the 'space' aspect of the game without suddenly feeling like I'm missing out on key elements.

You have to try not to think about this in MMO terms. FD will not be designing 'content' as such - at least for the most part, is our understanding. Rather, they are designing a set of rules which allow content to be generated.

When the new expansions come out (planetary landings and avatar control) we're not expecting the core game to change - just the amount of options you have to open up significantly.

For instance, you won't be stopped from trading because you didn't pay for the ability to get out of your ship and walk to the trading counter. You'll still be able to just access it from your ship.

If you can't land on planets, it doesn't mean you can't visit their systems - but I would imagine that (as with Frontier) there will be some systems that don't feature space stations but do have small landing pads which you may not be able to access. Your original play area of x thousand systems will remain the same though, and you will still be able to trade/interact with people (players or NPCs) who have been to those planets.

As for walking around, we don't know what extra that will bring yet, but I for one am excited to find out when the time comes

 

[Crystles]

I'm not insulting SC, but they really milked the cash cow. So much so that I was, in order...

Impressed
Inspired
Awed
Amused
Wondering

And now worried. I'm wondering if CR will be able to detach himself from this ridiculous flow of money he just stumbled upon to not implement money milking aspects in the game. Many games with a microtransaction system, they give you 70% of the game with out much problems, make it possible to achieve the next 20%, but the last 10% will always be out of reach... Unless you pay. Thats how they get players invested, they see how far they've come, and dont want to quit... So they fork it over... I call it the "drug dealer system". Too many people dont see it coming and thats what makes it so effective.

Thats not what were talking about.

Braben here has a very devoted fan base. However, he's taken a more typical approach of wanting to limit the influx of people in the earliest alpha's, most beta's, and all but the final testing phases... You have to WANT to be there, to get it.

If you let too many people in, its not necessarily a good thing. A really rough alpha, can deal some serious damage if the word gets spread around in the wrong way. By having alpha pledgers who know that theyre paying 200$ jus....

I'm going to stop here. My pain medications have kicked in, and i cant think... I think where im going is that they want to keep the numbers limited. This is a typical and safer approach.

Chris Roberts took a serious leap of faith, and I've backed that game with over 3,000$, so I hope it works out. I'm sure he knows that if his dog fighting module is rough enough to be considered "bad", its alpha status isnt going to save it from the malice of all too many people. Its going to do irreparable damage.

I know this, because I had a very direct experience with the TESO leaked beta footage. I got into the beta, but didnt bother until only the last few hours, because i was convinced it was crap. My mistake, because it was actually great. They fixed the **** outa it and it deserved better.

I'm not a unique snow flake. Theres others who are right in line with me after seeing the beta leak. Now thousands (perhaps tens of thousands) will likely never even give it a second look thinking the same thing I did, and its too much of a shame.

 

[Bingo Brewster]

Spoiler

i'm not insulting sc, but they really milked the cash cow. So much so that i was, in order...

Impressed
inspired
awed
amused
wondering

and now worried. I'm wondering if cr will be able to detach himself from this ridiculous flow of money he just stumbled upon to not implement money milking aspects in the game. Many games with a microtransaction system, they give you 70% of the game with out much problems, make it possible to achieve the next 20%, but the last 10% will always be out of reach... Unless you pay. Thats how they get players invested, they see how far they've come, and dont want to quit... So they fork it over... I call it the "drug dealer system". Too many people dont see it coming and thats what makes it so effective.

Thats not what were talking about.

Braben here has a very devoted fan base. However, he's taken a more typical approach of wanting to limit the influx of people in the earliest alpha's, most beta's, and all but the final testing phases... You have to want to be there, to get it.

If you let too many people in, its not necessarily a good thing. A really rough alpha, can deal some serious damage if the word gets spread around in the wrong way. By having alpha pledgers who know that theyre paying 200$ jus....

I'm going to stop here. My pain medications have kicked in, and i cant think... I think where im going is that they want to keep the numbers limited. This is a typical and safer approach.

Chris roberts took a serious leap of faith, and i've backed that game with over 3,000$, so i hope it works out. I'm sure he knows that if his dog fighting module is rough enough to be considered "bad", its alpha status isnt going to save it from the malice of all too many people. Its going to do irreparable damage.

I know this, because i had a very direct experience with the teso leaked beta footage. I got into the beta, but didnt bother until only the last few hours, because i was convinced it was crap. My mistake, because it was actually great. They fixed the **** outa it and it deserved better.

I'm not a unique snow flake. Theres others who are right in line with me after seeing the beta leak. Now thousands (perhaps tens of thousands) will likely never even give it a second look thinking the same thing i did, and its too much of a shame.

teso?

 

[Warbler]

As you were looking at the £80 tier as a purchase/investment, well if you do decide to buy it, I would urge you to to consider the next two tiers. At £85 you'll get the last available starting position (total six), and at £90 you'll get upgraded to the Collector's Edition. You'll also get a T-shirt, a paper back (the sequel to The Dark Wheel), and an A3 star map (confirmed at the backers website).

I think that's great value for money.

 

[[VR] Shadowman]

teso?

I believe he's referring to Elder Scrolls Online (The). I too applied for beta, but never received an invite. :/

Back on topic, the £80 offer is fantastic IMO. Grab it while you can.

 

[Crystles]

teso?

I believe he's referring to Elder Scrolls Online (The). I too applied for beta, but never received an invite. :/

Back on topic, the £80 offer is fantastic IMO. Grab it while you can.

Yes, The Elder Scrolls Online.

Keep forgetting that its just Elder Scrolls Online, where every other title in the series is The Elder Scrolls: Blargh.

 

[strooka]

for 3000 i would lend you my wife

 

[[VR] Shadowman]

for 3000 i would lend you my wife

Where did that come from?!

 

[Slawkenbergius]

I hate to draw the obvious comparison, but as a Star Citizen original backer, when they have $30 for the full game, alpha/beta, all future updates and gameplay functionality, as well as no private investors, I want to know how the high price for Elite is justified.

I'd describe the Star Citizen stuff as more like 'early access' than genuine alpha. With hundreds of thousands of voices crying out all at once, there's going to be a lot of noise. There'll be less than a hundredth of that number in the Elite alpha, making it easier to have constructive conversations about it.

Don't get me wrong though. I'm mighty glad CIG charged what they did, because otherwise there's no way I could afford both.

Also, Star Citizen did have private investors lined up at the beginning. It was only much later that they decided they weren't needed.

Welcome to the forums.

 

[Kinderman]

Welcome to ED WhoaTony.

A pledge of £32 to back this game will be worth every penny, in fact, it would probably cost around that off the shelf, possibly more. personally I had a larger budget so have a premium boxed edition coming my way too - £200 pounds to me seems very reasonable should they actually go on to make another 3 expansions. This does however mean that I wont be spending anymore on games for some time!

The thing about this game against SC is it's reputation I think, most of us backers certainly have quite high expectation of DB and his team - along side the nature of how the game has been built and how David would like the gameplay to stay away from the typical MMO style with advantages of being within the best guilds, I haven't played but other forum members seem to bring 'Eve' up a lot in these types discussion.

My advice would be to grab the £80 pledge while you can - as I understood the backer app was going to close 6th December with a new store starting up tomorrow, check out the latest newsletter;

http://forums.frontier.co.uk/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=209010

See you in space

 

[Tony Spaniels]

I hate to draw the obvious comparison, but as a Star Citizen original backer, when they have $30 for the full game, alpha/beta, all future updates and gameplay functionality, as well as no private investors, I want to know how the high price for Elite is justified.

.

Hey Tony,

My apologies for the nit picking, but Im pretty sure there's a joint interview with CR and DB in which CR exlpains that the Kickstarter monies made up about a third of the overall investment, and (at that time anyway) CR felt that he wouldnt get enough from kickstarter to make up the overall budget and had already sourced private funding. I can find the interview if you like.