New Backer - Can't help but feel a little shortchanged

[huwthomas]

I hate to draw the obvious comparison, but as a Star Citizen original backer, when they have $30 for the full game, alpha/beta, all future updates and gameplay functionality, as well as no private investors, I want to know how the high price for Elite is justified.

Star Citizen's SQ42 mission disks will be chargeable (there was a stretch goal that means early backers get the first one free, I think) ... so apart from certain qualifying backers, both games plan to charge for expansions that contain substantive new gameplay.

Another area that merits consideration is that you don't get a ship with SC. Now, you can borrow money in-game to buy a ship, but that's clearly not the same as starting with one (otherwise the ship sales would not be so successful!)

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

and I'm not interested in buying ships for real money.

you nailed my view there exactly. Dont get me wrong, stroke of genius from Roberts et al, it has really made them a lot of cash and good luck to them, however *so long as the game is fair and allows normal progression in game* I do wonder how many of these backers who have bought the big ships from the get go may later look back on it and decided they possibly spolied a huge part of the game for themselves.

(boring old parent hat on now..)

It is like when I wanted to buy my amiga 500 back in 1988. My parents refused to buy it all for me for xmas but said they would only pay half. I had to work a paper round and sell my speccy and all games (leaving me 2 long and painful months without a computer) to get the £200 I needed - A hell of a lot of money back then for a 12 year old.

But you know looking back I am 100% convinced the enjoyment I got out of seeing and using that computer was 10 fold more than if they had just given it to me. Half of the fun for me at least is earning stuff yourself.

but to each their own.

 

[PacalB]

you aren't buying anything.

you are backing the development of the game, it is a different transaction.

+1
I do wish more people would realise exactly this.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

You can say "you are not buying the game you are backing the developers" as much as you like but imo the reality is both go hand in hand.

Whilst I have no doubt some on here will do it purely for the love of the devs, I think the majority of people would either expect either a content return on their backing, ie the game and other goodies OR a financial return.

Given there wont be financial returns, then, I suspect most people giving money have a right to expect "stuff" from the game its not like Braben etc all a charity & are doing this purely out of the goodness of their hearts, they are planning on making a profit as well (and rightly so).

 

[Tony Spaniels]

Hello WhoaTony.

The answer to your question is quite simple....

Elite Dangerous will be a better quality game than Star Citizen. Like most things in life, the more you pay for something, the better quality you get.

I hope that helps. Regards, Oddball.

Hey Oddball

I work front line in a creative industry no far removed from games, and despite what might seem logically correct, from my experience it is not at all usually the case that more money equals more quality. For me, there are other important factors involved that can be hugely influential in the end result of a product. Not wanting to bore ye all with details, but crew motivation, creative direction and coherence, efficiency of pipeline, spanner in the works clients/publishers, scheduling and the right people being in the right places in departments are all factors at play in these things. Obviously having lots of money helps more than having just about enough as you have more wiggle room but its not the be all and end all.

One thing is true though, there is a perception that if something costs a lot then its quality, and if its cheap or free then its probably rubbish. But that is a perception.

 

[Gully]

I don't mean to play the "obvious" card here folks but wasn't the original ELITE written by two blokes in a bedroom with a shoestring budget...just sayin'!

 

[Pyros]

I don't mean to play the "obvious" card here folks but wasn't the original ELITE written by two blokes in a bedroom with a shoestring budget...just sayin'!

Well gully, as Alfred Bester would say, the mind is the reality . Money and price may translate poorly into value (e.g. Some friends of mine consider that minecraft was the best game of last year. It was significantly cheaper than many other games). Money is relevant, but is not everything.

Anyway, welcome aboard Tony. ED will be a great game, and we must be careful when comparing SC backing prices and rewards with ED. The first has a lower entry point, but lots of piece meal products being sold (typically, ships). ED has an higher entry point but the backing rewards are cumulative (how much would 4 ships cost in SC?).

So when looking at the £80 reward level, you must consider you are not only getting the game plus free expansions for life, but also all the rewards below (starting points, novella, music,...). Their value to you is a personal evaluation, of corse.

Take care and have fun!

 

[strooka]

Well gully, as Alfred Bester would say, the mind is the reality . Money and price may translate poorly into value (e.g. Some friends of mine consider that minecraft was the best game of last year. It was significantly cheaper than many other games). Money is relevant, but is not everything.

Anyway, welcome aboard Tony. ED will be a great game, and we must be careful when comparing SC backing prices and rewards with ED. The first has a lower entry point, but lots of piece meal products being sold (typically, ships). ED has an higher entry point but the backing rewards are cumulative (how much would 4 ships cost in SC?).

So when looking at the £80 reward level, you must consider you are not only getting the game plus free expansions for life, but also all the rewards below (starting points, novella, music,...). Their value to you is a personal evaluation, of corse.

Take care and have fun!

+1

 

[jedt]

You can say "you are not buying the game you are backing the developers" as much as you like but imo the reality is both go hand in hand.

Whilst I have no doubt some on here will do it purely for the love of the devs, I think the majority of people would either expect either a content return on their backing, ie the game and other goodies OR a financial return.

Given there wont be financial returns, then, I suspect most people giving money have a right to expect "stuff" from the game its not like Braben etc all a charity & are doing this purely out of the goodness of their hearts, they are planning on making a profit as well (and rightly so).

what people expect and the nature of the transaction are two different things.

i doubt anyone (prove me wrong, i don't mind) backed this game out of love for the developers, i certainly didn't. i backed the game because i want to see it made and i want to play it.

i have witnessed the quite sickening level of 'entitlement' shown by some players of other online games... really hope they don't spread to ed.

but the fact remains the act of backing a project is not the same as the act of purchase.

as far as the op is concerned... the terms are (or were as far as i remember) laid out clearly on the kickstarter. he/she/it knew exactly what they were getting into.... so whats the problem?

simply a case of caveat adiutor rather than caveat emptor

 

[Memnoch]

Yes, The Elder Scrolls Online.

Keep forgetting that its just Elder Scrolls Online, where every other title in the series is The Elder Scrolls: Blargh.

The problem I have with the Elder Scrolls games is that with each iteration the world gets smaller and smaller and yet more detailed. I fully expect Elder Scrolls X to be a fully rendered and accurate simulation of a kitchen!

 

[Mazhurg]

The problem I have with the Elder Scrolls games is that with each iteration the world gets smaller and smaller and yet more detailed. I fully expect Elder Scrolls X to be a fully rendered and accurate simulation of a kitchen!

... would love to see Daggerfall with modern technology!

 

[tooterfish]

The problem I have with the Elder Scrolls games is that with each iteration the world gets smaller and smaller and yet more detailed. I fully expect Elder Scrolls X to be a fully rendered and accurate simulation of a kitchen!

Yeah, I love TES but their focus is getting narrower and narrower with each iteration. There's no technical reason they couldn't go back to their roots and procedurally generate the entire game. It'd be the ultimate roguelike, and I'd throw money at that like it was going out of style.

They already procedurally generate the land anyway, artists just go in afterwards and neaten it up. And the dungeons are already mostly built from "pre-fab" interlocking parts.

So it's doable, but they'd have to develop new tools. Right now they reuse a lot of stuff, which I guess is cheaper. When you're blowing your budget on A list VAs and TV adverts that's important.

 

[Ivyy]

Another area that merits consideration is that you don't get a ship with SC. Now, you can borrow money in-game to buy a ship, but that's clearly not the same as starting with one (otherwise the ship sales would not be so successful!)

This is not correct. With a initial pledge of 32 € you get a game package (game+alpha+beta access) AND a starter ship (Aurora MR).
You CAN buy with more real life money other ships. But thats optional.
Just wanted to make that clear

 

[Dr Wookie]

I hate to draw the obvious comparison, but as a Star Citizen original backer, when they have $30 for the full game, alpha/beta, all future updates and gameplay functionality, as well as no private investors, I want to know how the high price for Elite is justified.

Look at it this way... the backer rewards are for people who have given loyalty and/or trust to FD in order to make the game. You are not buying alpha/beta directly. Chris Roberts chose to open the alpha/beta to just about everybody, and that's one model. David Braben chose to limit the places to those who are really invested in the game. If you have no particular loyalty to Elite, or desire to help iimprove, or ecitement to play early, then by all means wait for gamma release .

 

[Mazhurg]

Look at it this way... the backer rewards are for people who have given loyalty and/or trust to FD in order to make the game. You are not buying alpha/beta directly. Chris Roberts chose to open the alpha/beta to just about everybody, and that's one model. David Braben chose to limit the places to those who are really invested in the game. If you have no particular loyalty to Elite, or desire to help iimprove, or ecitement to play early, then by all means wait for gamma release .

Also, keep in mind that the alpha (and early betas) will end up being actual work, frustration and testing over playing. It's not a preview nor anything polished. The only bright sides to it is that you get to see in-game rendering sooner and know that you helped in creating a superior product! :smilie:

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Also, keep in mind that the alpha (and early betas) will end up being actual work, frustration and testing over playing. It's not a preview nor anything polished. The only bright sides to it is that you get to see in-game rendering sooner and know that you helped in creating a superior product! :smilie:

That's true for most alpha / early betas, but valid point all the same :smilie:

 

[Patrick_68000]

Elite has a prestigious past. And even more prestigious future. The backers have also took these considerations into account in their choice. Evidence for the past. Very justified hope for the future. Thereafter come the buyers of the commercial version.

 

[natte hond]

money money money .
for me it was never about what you get.
I just wanted to see a new version of the best space sim ever.
and be part of it.
I never suspected that something so uplifting would see the light of day again.
even if it fails , then at the least we have tried.
when we were young we had so much fun and were amazed.
David and Ian did what was considered impossible at the time.
if you weren't there to experience it like allot of us did, then 85 pounds is to much.
that is completely understandable.
your question really is ( what is all the fuss about ).
well time travel is impossible for now so we can,t explain.

maybe this helps watch this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpWoF5uVgbA

greetings space invaders

 

[Rogehans]

money money money .
for me it was never about what you get.
I just wanted to see a new version of the best space sim ever.
and be part of it.
I never suspected that something so uplifting would see the light of day again.
even if it fails , then at the least we have tried.
when we were young we had so much fun and were amazed.
David and Ian did what was considered impossible at the time.
if you weren't there to experience it like allot of us did, then 85 pounds is to much.
that is completely understandable.
your question really is ( what is all the fuss about ).
well time travel is impossible for now so we can,t explain.

maybe this helps watch this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpWoF5uVgbA

greetings space invaders

Yes watch that video it will give you some idea how important elite was and still is!

 

[Komemiute]

I still find hard to believe people see SC as a complete space game for just over 30 $...

It has literally NO space. All you have is a huge map with lotsa checkpoints.
Want to jump to another system? Approach the checkpoint.
Want to land on a planet? Go to checkpoint.
Want to move to another part of the map? Yep, checkpoint.

What bugs me about that game is that is anything but seamless.
I had enough of that already with privateer, and although I finished Freelancer I still think it was mediocre at best and surpassed by starlancer. Which was, justified this time, a simpler but better game.

I hope that regardless of what game you all chose, you'll get what you expect.
Knowing the past elite games, I'm pretty sure it can't go wrong.
Thank to my wife that accepted the investment.