Do you guys remember the Sidewinder vs Sidewinder training mission?
- Thread starter Pokemeck
- Start date
Good to know. That mission took me about 30 minutes to beat, thinking "Wow, I really suck at dogfighting" the whole time.
On the contrary, I think it's great. I spent some time doing it while messing with my HOTAS bindings, and when I was done I noticed that I'd gotten much better at fighting in my vulture. There's zero risk or cost involved, and once you're good at that you're good at fighting with fixed thermals in any ship. I just wish there was a similar mission with fixed multicannons so I could get a lot of practice with fixed kinetics.
I think the problem with that tutorial is not because of gimbal vs fix weapon, but the fact that the tutorial doesn't have a warning of "GET A DECENT FLIGHTSTICK BEFORE YOU TRY COMBAT!!" lol
Combat with mouse and fixed weapon mount is an absolute mess.
Fightstick or HOTAS setups makes the game 10 times easier.
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I wouldn't say "easier", but certainly more convenient and more immersive. I've lost track of all the kit I've put into Elite, some were complete disasters, some were simply amazing fun (but awful for gameplay), and some were just technically unworkable. The important thing is though - despite trying out all sorts of weird and wonderful control setups, and thousands of real $ spent on gaming peripherals over the years, none of it has made anything "easier"
Kit itself doesn't make anyone good. I am a rubbish combat pilot. I am, however, a rubbish combat pilot who is very happy with his gameplay experience
And you will always find some combat pilot who can play with nothing but a trackpad on a netbook and absolutely smush you.
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Yup, the training combat mission scared me away from combat pretty hard. Even when I found out about gimballed weapons I still hesitated.
Me in the combat mission, trying to use fixed weapons:
Oh my GOD I couldn't hit a barn door if I was parked right in front of it and it wasn't moving.
Me in the combat mission, trying to use fixed weapons:
Oh my GOD I couldn't hit a barn door if I was parked right in front of it and it wasn't moving.
Fixed weapons is almost unworkable with mouse imo.
If you are talking about gimbal, might be, but still marginal.
The problem with mouse and this game is 2 issues, 1 is recentering, 2 is deskspace required for turning - that's what makes it very hard to play Elite with mouse. It's got nothing to do with skill, but the ergonomic factor.
Actually you'll do much better with a trackpad or trackball compare to mouse - it is because of the infinite movement issue that I've mentioned in point 2.
Mouse doesn't have infinite movement given finite deskspace. That's the problem and why it is very difficult.
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Just did it with KB&M on my laptop after reading this thread.
Took me 5 min, which is 3-4 min. more than it would take me with my joystick on my gaming PC, nowhere near as hard as I remembered it really.
I get a lot of training as I use PA on my regular ships (Anaconda/FdL/Python), and that's a lot harder compared to lasers I guess.
Took me 5 min, which is 3-4 min. more than it would take me with my joystick on my gaming PC, nowhere near as hard as I remembered it really.
I get a lot of training as I use PA on my regular ships (Anaconda/FdL/Python), and that's a lot harder compared to lasers I guess.
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Gilmour
Banned
No, tutorials are for kids that need to be taught, I prefer to learn by doing. OJT
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I did quite well with the mouse for a long time, just turn up the resolution on your mouse to it's highest setting and fly.
When I bought the game for my older sister I told her that she shouldn't play open play until she was able to kill the other sidewinder without taking any damage. I think that's a good benchmark to try to maintain in terms of combat ability. I don't see why more people don't practice with the tutorials. At least I assume that's why most of the players I run into have trouble fighting.
I used to THINK I did well with mouse too, until I start using my HOTAS for it and realise by how many leagues and miles the different is.
"Doing quite well" and "skills" is a very subjective and relative term. The difference however between Joystick and mouse in Elite: Dangerous is quite distinct and quantifiable however and is not really a "matter of perspective".
If you can't do the Sidewinder vs. Sidewinder training mission without losing shields 99 times in 100, you should probably be very afraid of actual combat.
Anytime I'm gone for more than a few days, I generally do all the combat tutorials, including completing all 10 waves of incursion. I even do the Anaconda wave, now that it's been made easier by improving the weapon loadout. It was really annoying killing all nine waves with just one small beam laser so I'd have the railgun ammo to make the final fight not last 45 minutes...the multicannon is so much more useful.
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Allow me to disagree.
I play exclusively with KB&M and I prefer fixed weapons because I like to do my own aiming.
If you are having issues playing the tutorial missions with KB&M then either you don't have your controls set up correctly, KB&M just isn't your thing, or you simply need more practice.
I can easily do the Sidewinder Face-Off under 2 minutes (f.e. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KZ1td9K7Fo). I must admit I like to use FA off sometimes (I'm not even really good at FA off), but even without FA off I stay under 2 minutes (just put enough pips in engine).
The running out of deskspace thing makes me wonder whether perhaps you had set relative mouse to ON.
I found the tutorial combat mission harder to do with a hotas then mouse and keyboard because simply fixed weapons with a stick are harder to aim, while I could easily keep on target with the mouse.
You need a better stick or some sort of sensitivity slope.
nats
Banned
I think a lot of people would love to have the Elite pilots in the game have that sort of skill level. I find almost every dogfight quite easy apart from the odd one where they have turrets etc. But the training missions show that it could be tougher. I would like to have situations where I have to run away. Tough fights with very good pilots should be in the game. The cobra one was the toughest training mission for me (other than the stealth one of course) yet I never find any ships as tough as that in the game itself. When its easy to run away, as it is, some of the enemies should be tougher.
InMemoriamSirocco
Banned
The "Wolf Pack Tactics" Mission gives you Eagle wingmen with lasers and a Sidewinder with fixed Multicannons against a Cobra MK III.
Really? I find it quite precise.
The main problem is long pitches, but I bound those to the separate buttons and hold them down, just using the mouse for precision/careful movement.
This. I had initially set my keyboard up for roll and thrusts, keeping pitch and yaw for the mouse; problem was the long pitches as Poseidal said. Once I added pitch to the keyboard as well the problem was solved. I use EDSF instead of WASD, so I have more buttons around that hand anyhow.
E - Pitch up, D - Pitch down, S - Roll left, F - Roll right
A - Thrust left, G - Thrust right
C - Thrust backwards, Space - Thrust forward
W - Yaw left, R - Yaw right (though I hardly use these)
2, 3, 4, 5 - pip settings
Q - Shield Cell, V - Chaff, Z - FA off/on, T - lock target, ` - Boost, etc
Mouse X axis - Yaw, Mouse Y axis - Pitch
Side Mbuttons (4 & 5) - Thrust vertically up/down
Mousewheel for throttle control.
Gives me precision via mouse and broad movement via keyboard, with all other controls arranged nearby within easy reach. No problem.
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