Some clarification from the Devs, is this considered an exploit?

[Lord_Crazy]

Oh, the wing beacon can be used for many a useful little things that some may call exploit.

- Relay trading. Once set up with a full wing, there's no need to Super-Cruise anywhere. Thus avoiding all dangers that may lurk in between the planets.
- Ambush tactics. Three of four jump into a system, enter normal space at once. Then the 'goat' enters, make himself look pretty and tasty whilst Super-Cruising leisurely along. When the goat gets interdicted (and submits), a wingman-beacon is dropped, and five seconds later the wannabee pirate gets a nasty surprise.

Sorry I did not understand the relay trading thingy, could you be more specific please?
Anyway I don't see how ambush is an exploit. Wing beacons are designed to make wing members able to find each other. It does not specify "why" they want to do so. And yeah ambush is actually a very cool thing allowed by wing in my opinion

 

[Majinvash]

Killing Condas is easy, if you play as a team and work the beacon the mechanic correctly!

[video=youtube;IIVzW0EJSww]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIVzW0EJSww[/video]

Now as its currently a game mechanic, just imagine if everyone did it and we could have some epic 32 player battles!

Wouldn't that be awesome!!!

If it is improved upon in a future patch, we will use it and it will be awesome as well!

Yay for progress!

 

[lonewarrior]

Killing Condas is easy, if you play as a team and work the beacon the mechanic correctly!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIVzW0EJSww

Now as its currently a game mechanic, just imagine if everyone did it and we could have some epic 32 player battles!

Wouldn't that be awesome!!!

If it is improved upon in a future patch, we will use it and it will be awesome as well!

Yay for progress!

No because a battle that can't be win or lose is pointless
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Read below my other response
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There is a little blue double-arrow in every quote that, by clicking it, will bring you to the original post.


This is not a mod-response as those are blue.


Those are official responses and as you can clearly read, the issue has been forwarded.

Then maybe you should read the post you actually quoted, that is about wingman teleport nav lock, it doesn't mention the shields regen before the Dev responsed so it's invalid


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I need to know because if it's going to be kept in it's the worst decision for a game feature I've ever seen and here's why:
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2 anacondas interdict 2 anacondas, group 1 instantly charges FSD which might take 30 seconds, jumps away, jumps in, shields regenerated and now charges FSD again, now they have the ability to recharge their shields every 30-45 seconds for free
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6 hours later the battle is still going on, makes PvP pointless if you do this right, in an anaconda with 8 shield boosters you will never be able to die if you just keep charging your FSD straight away when you jump back in, your shields don't even need to fall they will just restore them
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If done right you can just keep jumping in and out every 30-45 seconds if you charge your FSD straight away, in big battles the mass lock will give you time to fight for 30-45 seconds between each regen
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There isn't much that can take out an A grade anaconda with 4 pips to shields in 30-45 seconds
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So I want to know I'm not wasting my time with the game because if it's a feature I'm done

 

[Ericlas]

lonewarrior, it seems like you just don't want to read or understand.

On the first page I already quoted a dev saying that this is a technical problem and not the way they want it to be.
Why do you keep asking if this is intended gameplay?
It is clearly not, but they have been unable to solve the issue yet.

I'll post this quote again, to save you from going back to page 1:

Hello Commanders!

Just a quick clarification for you folk.

Currently, shields don't exist in super cruise (for technical reasons). This being the case, we fully regenerate them once you drop out of super cruise.

It's not ideal; we're looking into getting shields (and hopefully the power distributor) working in super cruise - our preference will always be that there is as much ship persistence between different modes of travel as possible.

Of course, the usual caveat applies – there’s no ETA for this.

Hope this helps.

 

[lonewarrior]

lonewarrior, it seems like you just don't want to read or understand.

On the first page I already quoted a dev saying that this is a technical problem and not the way they want it to be.
Why do you keep asking if this is intended gameplay?
It is clearly not, but they have been unable to solve the issue yet.

I'll post this quote again, to save you from going back to page 1:

And again, that is from last year BEFORE wings were added
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I'm simply asking if this was part of wings, was it intended and are they going to do anything about it?
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There's a good chance they didn't see this was going to happen, how is that hard to understand?
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Seeing as they knew about it then and it wasn't a problem and didn't do ANYTHING for over 6 months but now it is a problem, We need an UPDATE, how do I know they are going to do anything? it's not unknown for DEVS to ignore a mechanic after saying they will fix it, look at Dayz, they said 2 years ago they were looking to have 3000 Zombies on a server and now your lucky to get 30, they said over and over it's coming up, went silent on it for about a year and now don't even care
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Theres a lot of things that have changed and their position on this might have too, I want an UP TO DATE response based on the Up TO DATE mechanics, I'm sure wings went through a number of different versions before release, we can't rely on quotes from 6 months+ ago because things have changed since then
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[Ericlas]

You fail to see that this issue has not become exploitable just since the wings update.
It was exploitable before, since the matchmaking routine will try to put you in an instance with a CMDR if there is anyone already there.
If you fought a CMDR in a warzone for example, SC out/in to restore your shield, chances were pretty high to meet the same CMDR again.
So you could abuse this way before wings, although it is easier now to hit the instance, granted.

But I get it, it doesn't matter what any other player is saying.
Even the friendliest around here, trying to keep you ingame is being ignored by you, in your quest to get an official answer to an already known and explained issue.

I wish you good luck!

 

[Majinvash]

No because a battle that can't be win or lose is pointlesse

Surely that is the point of a battle?...

To win... or by lack of choice.. lose?

 

[Mephane]

You fail to see that this issue has not become exploitable just since the wings update.
It was exploitable before, since the matchmaking routine will try to put you in an instance with a CMDR if there is anyone already there.
If you fought a CMDR in a warzone for example, SC out/in to restore your shield, chances were pretty high to meet the same CMDR again.
So you could abuse this way before wings, although it is easier now to hit the instance, granted.

But I get it, it doesn't matter what any other player is saying.
Even the friendliest around here, trying to keep you ingame is being ignored by you, in your quest to get an official answer to an already known and explained issue.

I wish you good luck!

At this point I can only imagine one reason for insisting on 100% confirmation whether it is merely tolerated, absolutely intended, or an outright exploit: to be absolutely sure they can use the exploit/trick/loopwhole/whatever-you-call-it without any fear of future repercussions for their game account. For otherwise, it is blatantly obvious that you are not supposed to do it.

 

[lonewarrior]

Surely that is the point of a battle?...

To win... or by lack of choice.. lose?

No the point is that you should be able to win or lose bit you can't do either if this is done right
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If you can't win or lose, just give people an invincibility module instead of the inconvenience of having to have a wingman, same ending

At this point I can only imagine one reason for insisting on 100% confirmation whether it is merely tolerated, absolutely intended, or an outright exploit: to be absolutely sure they can use the exploit/trick/loopwhole/whatever-you-call-it without any fear of future repercussions for their game account. For otherwise, it is blatantly obvious that you are not supposed to do it.

My reason is if they say it's an exploit and it's going to be fixed and they are working on a solution I'll keep playing
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If they say it's a game feature that's allows I'm leaving, because it's just the start or a series of bad game choices I won't be part of
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You fail to see that this issue has not become exploitable just since the wings update.
It was exploitable before, since the matchmaking routine will try to put you in an instance with a CMDR if there is anyone already there.
If you fought a CMDR in a warzone for example, SC out/in to restore your shield, chances were pretty high to meet the same CMDR again.
So you could abuse this way before wings, although it is easier now to hit the instance, granted.


But I get it, it doesn't matter what any other player is saying.
Even the friendliest around here, trying to keep you ingame is being ignored by you, in your quest to get an official answer to an already known and explained issue.


I wish you good luck!

Like I already said, the links you gave were way out of date or were not for the shield regen and just about he nav lock teleport which I'm not really bothered about too much
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I want to know where they stand on the issue now, it hasn't been answered because yes back then they said it's something they were working on and went ahead with wings:
So either:
1. They didn't know or forgot about it or overlooked it and didn't mean for it to be there
OR
2. They knew it was going to be possible in wings, and plan on keeping it
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I simply want to know what it is so I can make a choice on whether this game is still what I want to play because I don't want to waste a year or more of my life like I have with other games waiting for things to be fixed only for them to say in a year, "oh we can't fix it or wasn't really planning too"
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If that's the case I have better things to do, if not (which I think it is, but it doesn't hurt to check) then I'll hang around
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[Gilmour]

The simple answer has been touched on by others here. It's a broken game that is beyond the skill level of the developer to fix at this point. They are still looking for people that have the skills to make these types of repairs, but frankly I think the codebase as it is is just too far gone and cannot be fixed without scrapping it and starting over. I hope they are able to make it the game they told me I was buying.

 

[lonewarrior]

The simple answer has been touched on by others here. It's a broken game that is beyond the skill level of the developer to fix at this point. They are still looking for people that have the skills to make these types of repairs, but frankly I think the codebase as it is is just too far gone and cannot be fixed without scrapping it and starting over. I hope they are able to make it the game they told me I was buying.

Thats a grim outlook but I'm beginning to see that's the case
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I really like this game, or at least I did before wings, combat was fair and intense, now mostly it's boring and exploitable
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So many games I've played have gone down the drain because Developers can't or won't keep up with simple things that other games can
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Ill continue to hope that they sort out their issues but every day I'm edging towards giving up believing that they are going to fix these major issues, now I'm starting to see that maybe they are going to follow the path of many other games and ignore these issues until their player base gives up on them

 

[Gilmour]

I wish they had a subscription fee so they had incentive to keep players happy and grow their audience, the model they chose was to get a few bucks from as many new players as possible (by releasing it right at Christmas) and then it doesn't matter if they play or leave, they got their money. If they had used a decent engine for the game instead of an outdated in house one they had already because it was cost effective, they would have more to work with. There are no main stream popular games running on Cobra.

People seem to think that they knew of the problems they were creating for themselvs as they built on the code they had, but it seems more likely that they are trying things and guessing what will be the outcome and guessing wrong a lot of the time. It looks like they are in way over their depth and need to hire new programmers to try to sort it all out, (and are, in fact, trying to hire right now) but I think it needs a total ground up rebuild using a more tested engine (CRY engine3, RAGE, Source, Unity, Xash, unreal, sage, frostbite) any of then really...They used Cobra because it was free for them to use and it kind of looks like they got their money's worth from it. If you look at the most popular game engines, Cobra isn't even in the top 100. That should have been a clue.

 

[The Bosun]

Elite is a fantastic game and its sad to see people saying that they are going to stop playing the game simply because they don't like one tactic that players use in a very small part of the game. I really think lonewarrior is making a mountain out of a mole hill. It really is not that important.

 

[lonewarrior]

Elite is a fantastic game and its sad to see people saying that they are going to stop playing the game simply because they don't like one tactic that players use in a very small part of the game. I really think lonewarrior is making a mountain out of a mole hill. It really is not that important.

Like I already said, a wing vs wing can easily last hours until someone gets board without any risk or reward if they wanted to
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How is that not broken?
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Why would anyone want to play a game where you can't win or lose, because in my experience of other games it will descend into just infinate fights, it's happened before and it's happening now, in my original posts telling people about this many people said they are going to solo because of it, that's proof it's a problem right there
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It isn't a TACTIC, the whole point or this thread is to get a response to answer if it's a tactic or exploit, to get an answer
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It is a good game but it's slipping in some areas, I've seen it before in other games, if they don't start addressing issues now in a year I'll be posting "I told you so"

 

[Mephane]

My reason is if they say it's an exploit and it's going to be fixed and they are working on a solution I'll keep playing
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If they say it's a game feature that's allows I'm leaving, because it's just the start or a series of bad game choices I won't be part of

Fair point, I did not consider that. But I can simply not imagine FD being content with this exploit existing in the first place. It's too obvious a circumvention of other, definitely intentional game mechanics (shield recharge times) to not be on their list of issues that need fixing, and probably just had too low a priority in the past because it hadn't drawn this level of public attention.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Elite is a fantastic game and its sad to see people saying that they are going to stop playing the game simply because they don't like one tactic that players use in a very small part of the game. I really think lonewarrior is making a mountain out of a mole hill. It really is not that important.

I disagree.. As a private group player it is not a game ender for me - though it is one of the reasons keeping me from open.... BUT if you are a player who insists on playing in open and likes a bit of PvP in the spicy areas I can absolutely see why poeple doing this is a game breaker for them.

I know a dev mentioned that the full shields on dropping out of SC is an issue that they are looking into but that was months ago.

IF they cant fix it yet, then maybe they need to at least tweak the drop out beacons a bit as a band aid whilst they work on it so that once you go to sc, you cant drop back on top of the same beacon again, and if you try to, you drop in 25km away due to electromagnetic wake from you last jump interfering (or insert other reason here)

and the jump to exploit being done for insta travel should be just removed completely. I do not see why we should be warping anywhere like that.

if you slave your FSD to another ship then you drop out at same point together if you are within a set range, and if you slave before a jump you jump out together again if you are in range.... that is all that is needed imo, all the rest should be base on the same travel times as normal SC allows****.


***** Though IF FD says this is working as intended there is 1 upshot!.... it can fix the rubbish police response times in high sec space, because if instatravel is a "thing" then just make it officially a thing that security can do in systems. that way you drop an SOS beacon and the police can target and jump in immediately.

 

[jgm]

Fair point, I did not consider that. But I can simply not imagine FD being content with this exploit existing in the first place. It's too obvious a circumvention of other, definitely intentional game mechanics (shield recharge times) to not be on their list of issues that need fixing, and probably just had too low a priority in the past because it hadn't drawn this level of public attention.

Which makes you wonder why they don't say something. Doesn't have to be that they're going to fix it immediately, but at least that they recognise certain existing parts of the game as exploitable and that they will provide a fix but in the meantime people using them should be aware that they will be banned/wiped/whatever. Draw a line so that everyone knows where they stand.

 

[lonewarrior]

Which makes you wonder why they don't say something. Doesn't have to be that they're going to fix it immediately, but at least that they recognise certain existing parts of the game as exploitable and that they will provide a fix but in the meantime people using them should be aware that they will be banned/wiped/whatever. Draw a line so that everyone knows where they stand.

I do have a theory on why there's no response yet
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I would imagine it's an issue that will probably come up in a meeting and they need to get the response correct based on their investigation, so although I think they know about this post there is a good chance they won't responsed until they are given the go ahead to respond
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But yeah an answer to where they stand on the issue would be a big step, as long as I know they recognise it as an exploit then I'll be happy as it's something they will fix if they see it that way

 

[Majinvash]

Sounds more like its a mechanic which you don't like. By design or not.

Then rather then just getting on with it and working out how to make it work for you. ( It might not be going anywhere )
You decide to really go on about it and hope that someone agrees with you and changes it, so its how you like it.

This current mechanic has allowed for some really epic space battles.
Not just the simple 4v4 setup for a game designed around up to 32 players in an instance.

Yes it also allows for some ambushes too, ones in which you would get beaten.

So really toughen up and get on with playing the game in its current state.

The reason why FD hasn't replied to your post is probably because they have really more exciting things to do than pander to every player who doesn't like something in the game because it doesn't work for him.

 

[lonewarrior]

Sounds more like its a mechanic which you don't like. By design or not.

Then rather then just getting on with it and working out how to make it work for you. ( It might not be going anywhere )
You decide to really go on about it and hope that someone agrees with you and changes it, so its how you like it.

This current mechanic has allowed for some really epic space battles.
Not just the simple 4v4 setup for a game designed around up to 32 players in an instance.

Yes it also allows for some ambushes too, ones in which you would get beaten.

So really toughen up and get on with playing the game in its current state.

The reason why FD hasn't replied to your post is probably because they have really more exciting things to do than pander to every player who doesn't like something in the game because it doesn't work for him.

Read my posts
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Maybe it's a mechanic, maybe it's an exploit
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The point is I'm trying to confirm what it is and if it's going to be changed
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I have every right to not play a game I don't like the mechanics of
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Read my posts and understand the reason it's here
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If you had bothered to read, you'd know there are just as many people wanting to know and many going to Solo so it isn't just me, i have every right to find out the future of this game whether I like it or not isn't the point