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IMO you should not have it both ways. if inst-regen shields and insta across the galaxy travels are a "mechanic" then so is the insta jump out of system mechanic also known as alt-F4 imo.
all peas in the same pod.
Some clarification from the Devs, is this considered an exploit?
- Thread starter lonewarrior
- Start date
IMO you should not have it both ways. if inst-regen shields and insta across the galaxy travels are a "mechanic" then so is the insta jump out of system mechanic also known as alt-F4 imo.
all peas in the same pod.
Wars often last more than a few minutes or hours, they will end eventually, usually through some form of negotiations.
Both sides in these wars will do whatever they can to win and deploy whatever tactics they can to get an advantage on others. There are few rules during conflicts.
As a member of a pirate group, we will not want a fair fight. We are not gentlemen, we are scumbags. We want to do whatever we can to reduce the possiblity of us losing our ships and increase the odds of our opponents losing theirs. I personally think that shield recharging by jumping in and out is a bit crazy, but it is in the game and not deemed to be an exploit/ cheat / whatever you want to call it. perhaps the devs have intended it to be this way ?
Therefore as things stand at the moment it is a tactic that can be used by anyone. If it is deemed to be an exploit / cheat as combat logging is then we will of course not use it and come up with other cunning plans to outwit , outgun, out manouver and outnumber our opponents.
Just a thought, If you don't like this tactic, why not come up with some rules of engagement with other pvp groups that will follow these rules. We in the Code though would not want to comply with any such rules for the reasons stated above but I am sure the soloist and Mobians would certainly sign up to follow these rules .
Bottom line is , the shield recharge tactic is not classified as an exploit so will be used , so best bet is to stick to trading, rare trading, mining, exploring, doing community goals, system flipping, Res Sites, Uss's, Wss's Sss,s, pirating or talking about how the game is borked on web sites.
Both sides in these wars will do whatever they can to win and deploy whatever tactics they can to get an advantage on others. There are few rules during conflicts.
As a member of a pirate group, we will not want a fair fight. We are not gentlemen, we are scumbags. We want to do whatever we can to reduce the possiblity of us losing our ships and increase the odds of our opponents losing theirs. I personally think that shield recharging by jumping in and out is a bit crazy, but it is in the game and not deemed to be an exploit/ cheat / whatever you want to call it. perhaps the devs have intended it to be this way ?
Therefore as things stand at the moment it is a tactic that can be used by anyone. If it is deemed to be an exploit / cheat as combat logging is then we will of course not use it and come up with other cunning plans to outwit , outgun, out manouver and outnumber our opponents.
Just a thought, If you don't like this tactic, why not come up with some rules of engagement with other pvp groups that will follow these rules. We in the Code though would not want to comply with any such rules for the reasons stated above but I am sure the soloist and Mobians would certainly sign up to follow these rules .
Bottom line is , the shield recharge tactic is not classified as an exploit so will be used , so best bet is to stick to trading, rare trading, mining, exploring, doing community goals, system flipping, Res Sites, Uss's, Wss's Sss,s, pirating or talking about how the game is borked on web sites.
I don't think FD will ever directly respond to this question. They'll just patch out the ability to do this, eventually.
Anyone who has been in a fight where this tactic was used can attest to how completely absurd it is. Thirty odd minutes of constant combat between the same seven CMDRs and the only ship that gets destroyed is the noobie in the Vulture who doesn't have a clue...that's par for the course.
It's not epic, it's stupid. May as well just park and fire warning shots across each other's bows, you'll get the same fireworks show for less hassle.
The most damning fact that points to exploit over intended feature, is, as I have mentioned before, are other mechanisms that are undermined in utility by the abuse of this exploit. Why do shields even recharge on their own if you are simply supposed to frame shift away to recharge them? What are SCBs for?
Publicly drawing a line is the same thing as backing yourself into a corner.
Profoundly unlikely.
The shield recharge exploit will be used because no one can stop anyone from using it; just like combat logging.
Personally, the existence of these exploits is not enough to ruin the game for me, nor would they be even if I were not so damn good(tm) that I could get by perfectly fine without them.
Anyone who has been in a fight where this tactic was used can attest to how completely absurd it is. Thirty odd minutes of constant combat between the same seven CMDRs and the only ship that gets destroyed is the noobie in the Vulture who doesn't have a clue...that's par for the course.
It's not epic, it's stupid. May as well just park and fire warning shots across each other's bows, you'll get the same fireworks show for less hassle.
The most damning fact that points to exploit over intended feature, is, as I have mentioned before, are other mechanisms that are undermined in utility by the abuse of this exploit. Why do shields even recharge on their own if you are simply supposed to frame shift away to recharge them? What are SCBs for?
Publicly drawing a line is the same thing as backing yourself into a corner.
Profoundly unlikely.
The shield recharge exploit will be used because no one can stop anyone from using it; just like combat logging.
Personally, the existence of these exploits is not enough to ruin the game for me, nor would they be even if I were not so damn good(tm) that I could get by perfectly fine without them.
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Only if you don't think before you draw the line.
Although I'm normally not a fan of asking companies to make statements I think that exploiting is an area where there should be a clear policy as to how exploits are handled and clear statements on what are considered exploits. Anyone who visits this forum will see 3-5 threads on the front page with the titles containing the words hacks, cheats and exploits, and regardless of the content of the threads people will take a negative impression from the titles. A clear policy and active management would avoid what can only be bad publicity.
Is it an exploit?
No not technically. If its part of the design of the game, how you use those rules within the confines of the boundaries is up to you. It is after all, an open world type game. Play it your way was the company mantra in the advertising.
Could you get banned for using it?
I think you would have a pretty darn good argument and would likely capture a large following of disgruntled players if you did get banned or punished.
Is it fair and equitable?
No definitely not. I guess it's a matter of honour and good sportsmanship not to use it. If you think that will stop people, forget it. Player's moral compass does not always face the same way all the time. It's a game breaker when it comes to player versus player combat allowing the combat to be played nearly infinitely if both teams employ it.
Will moaning about it on forums change it?
No probably not. It's unlikely to get any sympathy and my guess is the design team knew about it within hours of it being discovered. If you program and design games, then you do it for a love of the game, because the hours of labour, long hours and the shear volume of expertise you need to be a game developer/designer/artist is definitely not remunerated in your salary. The last thing you need is to read through whinges about game mechanics. What you really want to do is go home put your feet up in front of the telly and have a beer. The customer relations guys and volunteers deal with having to listen to the whinges.
Will the elite team fix it?
Yes my guess is absolutely, probably in the next patch. I doubt its that much of a game breaker to release a fix for it, besides, there are trying to get out the other stuff that you guys want to keep you enthralled with the game. You want planet landings space dockyards, first person, then some things are going to have to be back logged. But give the guys at Frontier their due, they have been knocking out some significant game changes at a fairly rapid rate.
The guy in the "big red button" release video who shouted "Now were in trouble!" ... You don't know the half of it, been there, done that!
No not technically. If its part of the design of the game, how you use those rules within the confines of the boundaries is up to you. It is after all, an open world type game. Play it your way was the company mantra in the advertising.
Could you get banned for using it?
I think you would have a pretty darn good argument and would likely capture a large following of disgruntled players if you did get banned or punished.
Is it fair and equitable?
No definitely not. I guess it's a matter of honour and good sportsmanship not to use it. If you think that will stop people, forget it. Player's moral compass does not always face the same way all the time. It's a game breaker when it comes to player versus player combat allowing the combat to be played nearly infinitely if both teams employ it.
Will moaning about it on forums change it?
No probably not. It's unlikely to get any sympathy and my guess is the design team knew about it within hours of it being discovered. If you program and design games, then you do it for a love of the game, because the hours of labour, long hours and the shear volume of expertise you need to be a game developer/designer/artist is definitely not remunerated in your salary. The last thing you need is to read through whinges about game mechanics. What you really want to do is go home put your feet up in front of the telly and have a beer. The customer relations guys and volunteers deal with having to listen to the whinges.
Will the elite team fix it?
Yes my guess is absolutely, probably in the next patch. I doubt its that much of a game breaker to release a fix for it, besides, there are trying to get out the other stuff that you guys want to keep you enthralled with the game. You want planet landings space dockyards, first person, then some things are going to have to be back logged. But give the guys at Frontier their due, they have been knocking out some significant game changes at a fairly rapid rate.
The guy in the "big red button" release video who shouted "Now were in trouble!" ... You don't know the half of it, been there, done that!
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Hey - this is something that we know about. It is considered an exploit, and we are fixing it.
I suppose this refers to using FSD to instantly refill the shield in general, and not just the variant where this is combined with the wings functionality?
excellent, thanks for the reply.
Exploits happen in games, and it is a sad truth that some gamers will always try and benefit from them. At least now we know it is an exploit and not something which is intended.
Whilst you are here Ed......
is this the same view on the instant travel "feature" bought in using wings? Thanks
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Thank you
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That's all I was looking for, it doesn't really matter if it takes time to fix as long as it's done right and people knew something was in the works
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In a way I was looking for a piece of mind for the future of the game and wanted to know if it was something that would be fixed
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Well I guess that's me happy, I'll stay quiet on the issue now
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As far as I know, exploit is thing when you find something as bug in game and than use it to improve your in game stats, money, gold whatever.
When you use something which is programmed by developers and it working as intended it is no considered exploit , and in this case it is not exploit , it is not illegal thing, by using it you do not brake any game rule, but still more than 80% of players taking that as exploit even if they using it on same way.
Simple as that , maybe devs going to fix it to change how it work and they should change it, but till than , it is legal and you can use at your will, it is not exploit it is just something people using for their advantage in fights, and developers did not think about that side of their imagination when they was programming that part of code.
When you use something which is programmed by developers and it working as intended it is no considered exploit , and in this case it is not exploit , it is not illegal thing, by using it you do not brake any game rule, but still more than 80% of players taking that as exploit even if they using it on same way.
Simple as that , maybe devs going to fix it to change how it work and they should change it, but till than , it is legal and you can use at your will, it is not exploit it is just something people using for their advantage in fights, and developers did not think about that side of their imagination when they was programming that part of code.
Sandro / Ed
Along the same lines, can you look at;
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=129817
Which is a similar (and relevant to this thread) discussion regarding jumping directly to a wingman, missing out any SC. Again confirmation is needed as to if this was an intended mechanic (some think its bad, some think its ok, some think its great).
QA chap initially said he/she would get confirmation back in early April and has subsequently gone quiet.
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Dave said...
".... players want to be able to experience travelling between planets in a similar way to the way they could in Frontier using fast forwarding of time ".
I they model Super-Cruise to this concept then this would explain why they thought that it was a good idea to make shields come back to maximum capacity instantly.
If they leave the mechanic like that but prevent the player who jumped out from returning to the battle for a period of time, that would fix it. Also it would act as a form of punishment for bad game play, where players jump out, repair and rejoin.
I'm sure the lore could say that you have to wait for your wake to dissipate before you can reappear within x number of Light Seconds of the original jump point.
Conversely they could force the recharge to continue at normal speed during Super-Cruise.
".... players want to be able to experience travelling between planets in a similar way to the way they could in Frontier using fast forwarding of time ".
I they model Super-Cruise to this concept then this would explain why they thought that it was a good idea to make shields come back to maximum capacity instantly.
If they leave the mechanic like that but prevent the player who jumped out from returning to the battle for a period of time, that would fix it. Also it would act as a form of punishment for bad game play, where players jump out, repair and rejoin.
I'm sure the lore could say that you have to wait for your wake to dissipate before you can reappear within x number of Light Seconds of the original jump point.
Conversely they could force the recharge to continue at normal speed during Super-Cruise.
I have wrote my post before riding yours, so according to your post , it is bug , it is not what you wanted to make , it just happen without your knowledge ? Hardly I can believe in that. However just fix it , let it work like not in super cruise, if shield is dmg-ed or down, it should reside in same status where ever you jump, whatever you do, it need full 3 mins to recharge so let it be as that whatever player do even if they log off keep shields in same status when they come back online. So loging off takes current status of everything , so you log back in same status.
I remember funny thing u get wanted status, quick log off , and log back , wanted status is erased.
I have to disagree... Its an exploit when the devs say it is one....... and they have, so its an exploit!.
ciger
Banned
nice, good to know. keep it up guys
Why is this so hard? There's a dead simple fix as far as I can see - when people jump to SC, store shield value (you match-make at this stage so there is already client/server comms occurring), when they exit supercruise restore shield value (again there is matchmaking and hence client/server comms already).
Not the more elegant fix you've alluded to - shield state and pips persisting in supercruise - but pretty easy to implement I would have thought. Yes, I'm a programmer and know that seemingly simple isn't always that but as a "quick and dirty" it seems fairly straight forward to me.
ciger
Banned
Why is this so hard? There's a dead simple fix as far as I can see - when people jump to SC, store shield value (you match-make at this stage so there is already client/server comms occurring), when they exit supercruise restore shield value (again there is matchmaking and hence client/server comms already).
Not the more elegant fix you've alluded to - shield state and pips persisting in supercruise - but pretty easy to implement I would have thought. Yes, I'm a programmer and know that seemingly simple isn't always that but as a "quick and dirty" it seems fairly straight forward to me.
i am always amused by the "i am a programmer" crowd giving devs hints and tips on how to do their jobs