Fine fines and more fines! The fines discussion thread

[Starnoob]

It has happened a few times now that while searching for bounties I'v accidentally incurred a minor violation for friendly fire. Where upon the security forces at once go into all out kill mode and blast me to bits.

I find it both extremely annoying and unrealistic that security forces kill people on sight for fines that are nothing more than pocket change.

I'v even been intercepted and killed by security forces while trying to get to a station to pay off the fine.

You are 100% correct. Ignore the Frontier apologists who insist the problem is you and your itchy trigger finger. They're not quite intelligent enough to see the simple point to your post. The moment you get a 200 credit fine, all of the authorities in the area will drop what they're doing and turn on you like you were public enemy number 1. Never mind the anacondas and pythons flying around murdering innocent miners who have 100K+ bounties on their heads, it's you who must be stopped at all costs.

The fact that you're under attack the moment you incur the fine with no chance of paying it off is completely broken. The fact that you become the prime target over all of the other known felons whit massive outstanding bounties is completely broken. The fact that they'll blow you out of the sky even as you're approaching a station to pay the fine, instead of waiting until you leave with the fine still unpaid is completely broken. It all needs to be fixed.

 

[excalibus]

i've seen NPC's become wanted from clean with bounty in a nav / res / uss before... was a bounty hunter too lol needless to say I took him out for his uncontrolled firing No he did not fire on me, so I guess he must have friendly fired on the police or some such

 

[Leper Messiah]

I must admit I read these sort of threads and just cannot fathom the logic behind the Ai process here.


To me it sounds like this analogy (correct me if I'm wrong). Police are chasing a criminal who's robbed/murdered someone...a bystander sticks his leg out to try and trip the criminal, criminal trips, but also a copper trips over....all coppers then stop chasing the criminal and beats the living crud out of the bystander who stuck his leg out....

 

[bamber]

It has happened a few times now that while searching for bounties I'v accidentally incurred a minor violation for friendly fire. Where upon the security forces at once go into all out kill mode and blast me to bits.

I find it both extremely annoying and unrealistic that security forces kill people on sight for fines that are nothing more than pocket change.

I'v even been intercepted and killed by security forces while trying to get to a station to pay off the fine.

I think the person you hit found the fire less than friendly and extremly annoying and very realistic that you got your just reward for a lack of control and discipline

If you want a good analogy think of the Elite Galaxy as the Wild West its rough and tough out there and in order to keep some semblance of good order the law makers have to crack down hard on the smallest infringement

 

[B33 ENN]

I understand, but wasn't the point of the original post about being killed for a fine, not a bouny? Or have I missed something?

I don't really get that difference in this context. They seem to be one and the same thing in my experience so far. You accidentally strike a friendly ship, you get a Wanted flag come up on your right hand panel above your fuel guage and thermal signature read-out, plus a bounty/fine, whatever you want to call it.

At this point, security force ships come after you, and I tend to run as fast as I can and jumpt to Supercruise and make for the local station to pay off the amount.

 

[Leper Messiah]

I think the person you hit found the fire less than friendly and extremly annoying and very realistic that you got your just reward for a lack of control and discipline

If you want a good analogy think of the Elite Galaxy as the Wild West its rough and tough out there and in order to keep some semblance of good order the law makers have to crack down hard on the smallest infringement

The Wild West analogy doesn't jive with me, you have a posse going after a criminal, there's a shoot out a Deputy/bounty hunter/civvie with a gun helping out accidentally clips someone on the authority side....I just can't imagine everyone would then shoot and kill the one who made the mistake and ignore the real criminal.

 

[Guyperson]

Let's make one thing perfectly clear. The feds will not kill you for a fine, no matter how large. If you have a bounty, then they want you dead. The feds don't care if it's only 200cr, they're probably paid by the hour. A large bounty just incentivizes bounty hunters to get you for them.

 

[bamber]

The Wild West analogy doesn't jive with me, you have a posse going after a criminal, there's a shoot out a Deputy/bounty hunter/civvie with a gun helping out accidentally clips someone on the authority side....I just can't imagine everyone would then shoot and kill the one who made the mistake and ignore the real criminal.

Dont accidentally shoot me is all i would suggest as I'll turn my attention on the ship that ii think is the greatest threat - that being teh guy who has just ambushed me with his very unfriendly fire

 

[Philip Foster]

Run away. Play cat and mouse to the nearest station. Smuggle yourself in pay your bounty, clear your tab. It's a mini adventure.

I won't lecture about fire discipline, it does happen, it's happened twice to me but I ran away before the fuzz could do me over.

For all it's foibles one of the many many things I love about this game is that it demands a considered approach. Poor fire discipline must be punished. Tweaked a little maybe but still properly punished.

 

[Kosmetas]

Don't do the crime if you can't do the fine!

 

[NullAndVoid]

In an universe where you are told loitering is punishable by death, shooting an innocent bystander the punishment seems reasonable and proportionate.

 

[Mltdwn]

I'm not sure where I stand on this. On one hand, it's absurd that any advanced society with a concept of justice would mandate the immediate death warrant of a human being for the an accidental "assault".

What kind of justice involves dodging a scan on the way in to pay off your fine (for which you may legally be killed)?

ROFL... I take it you haven't read the Elite fiction.... They have about as much sense of "Justice" in the universe as the houses in Dune have (which is to say none). I mean it is prefectly ok to destroy an Orca and wipe out every passenger on it in order to get one person who is wanted for a bounty (The Comet's Trail), and the "heroes" are often as dark and corrupt as the people they fight against... They also generally all die in the end of the story after achieving their pyrrhic victory (pretty much every Elite novel and short story). So it makes perfect sense that yes the Federals or Imperials would immediately hit you with a fine and swear out a bounty on you as soon as you hit them, accidental or no. Life is cheap in Elite, especially when they can just vat grow new people, and genetically engineer them at the same time, if needed. And there is pretty much never a happy ending.

 

[TMC]

I know it's part of the game, and after a little practice can be mostly avoidable and minimized.. Don't shoot far into the distance trying to get a hit on a target with 5% hull left because you can't get there on time, you know you may hit an innocent nearby. No matter how much you know a target is wanted, you need to wait for that scan to finish to authorize the hit... And after targeting something, and you have to turn away for a moment and then turn back again, make sure the ship you see is the same target and not another wanted that you haven't scanned yet.

But with all that said, I think a little friendly fire does not deserve an immediate death warrant and every cop to turn on you instantly, even while they are being pounded on by an anaconda... My gosh. Sure, get a 200K fine or something, and until you pay that the next fine doubles, and finally the third one is a bounty.

 

[HectorW]

In an universe where you are told loitering is punishable by death, shooting an innocent bystander the punishment seems reasonable and proportionate.

and yet in this universe murder is not punished at all, go figure

 

[Midian Cabal]

and yet in this universe murder is not punished at all, go figure

What murder? You only blow up a ship, so far you haven't killed anyone in this game.

 

[babelfisch]

Can't remember how many times I took part in this discussion.

No. 1 reason for getting wanted after attacking a clear target: Otherwise you would not be able to defend yourself when getting attacked. No wing member or authority would be allowed to help you. If you find an easy solution for this we can talk about it again.

Just for your information: Authorities abandoning their target for your 200 Cr bounty is not intended (according to FDEV) but is not easy to change. So no ETA, but they are working on it.

 

[who?]

The thing I find a bit funny about RES / accidental bounties etc: the local authorities are often flying around blissfully unaware of that pirate Anaconda flying among them, scanning vessels and issuing threats. But if I fire on that Anaconda 1 second before my scan reveals he's Wanted, I'm instantly Public Enemy #1 and all the authorities jump all over me like I just insulted their mothership.

It does seem a little.... psychotic..

My guess is: if you hit someone while you have a Wanted craft locked, then they give you some leeway. In the above scenario, you don't have a Wanted craft locked, so no damage whatsoever is tolerated.

 

[Makaan]

Can't remember how many times I took part in this discussion.

No. 1 reason for getting wanted after attacking a clear target: Otherwise you would not be able to defend yourself when getting attacked. No wing member or authority would be allowed to help you. If you find an easy solution for this we can talk about it again.

Ok, so I'm in a RES, it's hectic and I accidentally shoot a friendly and it's because they've actually crossed infront of my ship at speed.

Boom! Suddenly every security dude is now targeting you.

Now, you say it's so clean people being genuinely attacked can be helped out. Ok that makes sense. But, they could easily put a bar in place where you're, let's say, actually shooting at someone for a certain number of seconds (or shooting them a certain amount of times) before the security forces attack you.

And you would be warned by you're ships computer the moment you're first bullet/laser hit the target, that you were firing on a friendly.

They do this with other games and it works. They could do it for Elite and everyone would be happy.

I'm not saying this is THE solution, it's just an example.

 

[babelfisch]

Ok, so I'm in a RES, it's hectic and I accidentally shoot a friendly and it's because they've actually crossed infront of my ship at speed.

Boom! Suddenly every security dude is now targeting you.

Now, you say it's so clean people being genuinely attacked can be helped out. Ok that makes sense. But, they could easily put a bar in place where you're, let's say, actually shooting at someone for a certain number of seconds (or shooting them a certain amount of times) before the security forces attack you.

And you would be warned by you're ships computer the moment you're first bullet/laser hit the target, that you were firing on a friendly.

They do this with other games and it works. They could do it for Elite and everyone would be happy.

This is already implemented. OP managed to deal more damage than FF mechanics allow.

 

[Makaan]

This is already implemented. OP managed to deal more damage than FF mechanics allow.

Really?

In that case it should be the number of times you hit them.