A ED 1.3 question that perhaps was not answered ?

[Viajero]

The AMA answer only mentions solo play, it's actually all actions and from all play modes that are measured against each other. So there are 12 solo fortify and 20 open play that counts as 32 actions. Unlike community goals there is an opposing action that can be performed and it is the greater tally that wins rather than first across the goal.

Im a bit confused by these 12 solo and 20 open.

Do you mean that is some kind of standard number of actions for Power expansion etc? Are those 12 restricted to SOLO and those 20 restricted to OPEN? If yes, I guess that acts as a sort of a weight already no?

Or are you talking as a specific example of number of actual players?

 

[chagnampra]

The AMA answer only mentions solo play, it's actually all actions and from all play modes that are measured against each other. So there are 12 solo fortify and 20 open play that counts as 32 actions. Unlike community goals there is an opposing action that can be performed and it is the greater tally that wins rather than first across the goal.

Michael

This makes a lot of sense. It would also make sense to have many more opposing Community Goals in the future too. Really looking forward to Powerplay as it will add so much more scope.

 

[SteveLaw]

Im a bit confused by these 12 solo and 20 open.

Do you mean that is some kind of standard number of actions for Power expansion etc? Are those 12 restricted to SOLO and those 20 restricted to OPEN? If yes, I guess that acts as a sort of a weight already no?

Or are you talking as a specific example of number of actual players?

I read it as an example, but yes it needs clarification.

 

[SentineI]

The AMA answer only mentions solo play, it's actually all actions and from all play modes that are measured against each other. So there are 12 solo fortify and 20 open play that counts as 32 actions. Unlike community goals there is an opposing action that can be performed and it is the greater tally that wins rather than first across the goal.

Your answer has somewhat confused me, so I'd like to clear things up by discussing a concrete situation:

Let's imagine there is a "balance" between players trying to deliver trade goods & other players trying to blockade/pirate those traders. What happens if 90% of traders go Solo, while 50% of blockaders/piraters are in Open? (Note that blockaders/pirates in Solo mode will only be able to target NPC traders, who will obviously be easier to handle than real players.) Traders in Open will balance against blockaders/pirates in Open, giving some final Open tally of successful trades which would be compared against successful blockades. And traders in Solo will balance against blockaders/pirates in Solo, giving some final Solo tally of success successful trades which would be compared against successful blockades. My question is how the Open result will be combined with the Solo result.

To my mind, if Solo players are given equal footing with Open players, those playing in Solo will have an unfair advantage (due to only playing against NPCs), and thus an unfair influence on the final result. I had *assumed* it was obvious that Solo players should be weighted less when combining Solo result with Open result, just like in Community Goals.

(If I've completely misunderstood how things work, please give a concrete example of how it will work!)

 

[Sandmann]

Im a bit confused by these 12 solo and 20 open.

Do you mean that is some kind of standard number of actions for Power expansion etc? Are those 12 restricted to SOLO and those 20 restricted to OPEN? If yes, I guess that acts as a sort of a weight already no?

Or are you talking as a specific example of number of actual players?

I believe that he meant "If 12 people are acting in solo toward a fortify goal and 20 people are acting in open toward the same fortify goal, that gives a total of 32 people in total acting toward that goal regardless of play mode, and that the results of the goal will be judged from the total number of actions rather than by the "first team across the line" as happens with community goal, thus play mode is made irrelevant to the calculation".

 

[natte hond]

My main concerns were towards any trading/blockade style goals.

If all the traders are in solo trading and all the combat cmdrs are in open then it's a bit wrong. If they spawn "trade npcs" for the open players this doesn't really help matters either as everyone is just working against npcs on their own.

I agree , it resulted in large pve groups and a fear for the all environment.

I think killing has become far too profitable and has not so much to do with why someone has to be eliminated.
to me its like its derailing the space trading nature of the game.

what is missing in the game in my opinion is that guarded sectors do not uphold their laws that well.
as a result some players feel grieved and go to solo or to one of the pve groups.

wile if war was mainly costly like in the real world then it would possibly balance it by it selves.
cos then it has to be funded by trade.
a nice thing to fight over would be trade rights.
so when the gain comes after the war efforts player would have more reasons to play in open.
now anybody can just buy anything any where.
but why should all governments allow that?
I wouldn't buy from or sell to a mass murderer , you?!

of course piracy to this level should be possible but I think it should be pushed back to low populated space or lawless systems.

 

[Wullail]

Reading between the lines....the 12 and 20 comment...

There could be 6 in open working one side and an opposing nunber of 6 working against them...

10 in solo working towards a goal and an equal number working against them....

or ....6 in solo and 10 in open working for A with 10 in solo and 6 in open working for B....

etc...etc...


checks and balances regardless of which version of the game you're playing in.

 

[Michael Brookes]

I believe that he meant "If 12 people are acting in solo toward a fortify goal and 20 people are acting in open toward the same fortify goal, that gives a total of 32 people in total acting toward that goal regardless of play mode, and that the results of the goal will be judged from the total number of actions rather than by the "first team across the line" as happens with community goal, thus play mode is made irrelevant to the calculation".

This is correct.

Michael

 

[Slacker]

Here we go again with open vs solo round 243.

 

[SteveLaw]

Seems pretty clear to me. One action is worth one action regardless of which mode it is performed in. If you wish to counter Task A you do it by performing Counter Task B, not by trying to prevent other players performing Task A.

 

[Sandmann]

Seems pretty clear to me. One action is worth one action regardless of which mode it is performed in. If you wish to counter Task A you do it by performing Counter Task B, not by trying to prevent other players performing Task A.

Yah. It's decided by the question "Which side has the greater number of players performing the greater number of actions toward a given goal?" An action in open has the same weight as an action in solo, and a combat action has the same weight as a trade action. It's assumed that there will be people performing trade AND combat actions for both sides but it's irrelevant if they actually do or not.

For example: If side A has 12 actions of type 1 and 15 actions of type 2 they have a total score of 27, if the side B has 14 actions of type 1 and 9 actions of type 2 they have a total score of 23. It doesn't matter if type 1 or 2 was trade, combat, mining, or spinning around reciting baa baa black sheep or whether it was performed in open, solo, group, or "all together now let's sing" mode. Side A's score is 27 and side B's in 23, so side A wins this goal.

 

[SentineI]

Seems pretty clear to me. One action is worth one action regardless of which mode it is performed in. If you wish to counter Task A you do it by performing Counter Task B, not by trying to prevent other players performing Task A.

So in other words, everyone should do their Task in Solo, because it has exactly the same worth as in Open, but it will be much easier in Solo...

Oh dear.

 

[SteveLaw]

So in other words, everyone should do their Task in Solo, because it has exactly the same worth as in Open, but it will be much easier in Solo...

If that's how you want to play. Although Open has other things to offer if you enjoy multi-player interaction. Your choice.

 

[edgar]

Seems pretty clear to me. One action is worth one action regardless of which mode it is performed in. If you wish to counter Task A you do it by performing Counter Task B, not by trying to prevent other players performing Task A.

That's a shame. No room for the metagame?

But metagaming is FUN!

 

[SentineI]

If that's how you want to play. Although Open has other things to offer if you enjoy multi-player interaction. Your choice.

Don't be daft. It's not *me* I'm worried about, it's the vast majority of other players. If THEY generally choose to play in Solo to achieve their Power's goal, then I am at a disadvantage unless I also play in Solo. So I have to choose between fun & actually getting the best result.

Be careful how you answer, because the same answer should apply to Community Goals (which *does* give Solo less weight).

 

[SteveLaw]

That's a shame. No room for the metagame?

But metagaming is FUN!

Of course there's room for it, it's just not the only way to play.

 

[Sandmann]

So in other words, everyone should do their Task in Solo, because it has exactly the same worth as in Open, but it will be much easier in Solo...

Oh dear.

That's certainly an option but it's not necessarily so. If your chosen action to meet a goal happens to be combat, I'd assume that a kill against an NPC would be just as heavily weight as a kill against a PC and there's just as many NPC's in open, PLUS there's PC's also. If you only desire to get the greatest number of kills in the shortest time possible to support a goal your best strategy is to target either NPC's, either in open OR solo or noobz in open. If your goal is to only target players no matter what the circumstances then you are already limiting yourself. If your goal is only to target PC's with bigger ships and higher ranks than you then you are limiting yourself even further.

 

[SteveLaw]

Don't be daft. It's not *me* I'm worried about, it's the vast majority of other players. If THEY generally choose to play in Solo to achieve their Power's goal, then I am at a disadvantage unless I also play in Solo. So I have to choose between fun & actually getting the best result.

Be careful how you answer, because the same answer should apply to Community Goals (which *does* give Solo less weight).

I was using "you" in place of "one". And this is not the same as Community Goals because Community Goals don't offer Counter Tasks (AFAIK because I don't play those, partly for that reason).

 

[Sandmann]

Don't be daft. It's not *me* I'm worried about, it's the vast majority of other players. If THEY generally choose to play in Solo to achieve their Power's goal, then I am at a disadvantage unless I also play in Solo. So I have to choose between fun & actually getting the best result.

Which translates to "If I choose to limit myself to a narrow view of play while achieving a goal while others choose to pursue the best tactic to achieve the goal, am I at a disadvantage?" then the answer is: yes, you place yourself at a disadvantage by doing this... but by your own admission you find this method to be more fun. Oh and by the way, that DOES count as "thinking about yourself".

 

[edgar]

Of course there's room for it, it's just not the only way to play.

But we just get back to the position / flaw with Community Goals: that Players can hide in Solo in order to escape other Players trying to stop them from achieving the goal.

For example: If side A has 12 actions of type 1 and 15 actions of type 2 they have a total score of 27, if the side B has 14 actions of type 1 and 9 actions of type 2 they have a total score of 23. It doesn't matter if type 1 or 2 was trade, combat, mining, or spinning around reciting baa baa black sheep or whether it was performed in open, solo, group, or "all together now let's sing" mode. Side A's score is 27 and side B's in 23, so side A wins this goal.

How does side A or side B go about disrupting the efforts of the opposing side though? Everyone can still just jump into Solo and now it's just a race again like CGs are.