Capital Ships ...
- Thread starter Kernyx
- Start date
Um, capital ships are definitely implemented. I have screenshots if you don't believe me.
Player controlled capital ships aren't in because they'd be extravagantly expensive, there's currently no facilities to dock them at (they're effectively self sustaining mobile space stations), it's unlikely that Core Dynamics or Gutamaya would sell one to a random spacer, and there's literally no reason to own one since you couldn't take it down into an RES or anything.
FD mentioned multi-crewed player-controlled sub-capital class ships much larger than the Anaconda but also much smaller than the faction capitals as future goal. But since neither walkarounds nor multiplayer crews are implemented, the rest of the game is still so raw, and no legitimate player could currently afford one, there'd be little reason to devote much development time to these vessels at this time.
Player controlled capital ships aren't in because they'd be extravagantly expensive, there's currently no facilities to dock them at (they're effectively self sustaining mobile space stations), it's unlikely that Core Dynamics or Gutamaya would sell one to a random spacer, and there's literally no reason to own one since you couldn't take it down into an RES or anything.
FD mentioned multi-crewed player-controlled sub-capital class ships much larger than the Anaconda but also much smaller than the faction capitals as future goal. But since neither walkarounds nor multiplayer crews are implemented, the rest of the game is still so raw, and no legitimate player could currently afford one, there'd be little reason to devote much development time to these vessels at this time.
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You recall incorrectly. The only vaguely announced expansions are planetary landings and first person EVA - and even they're probably subject to change.
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Well I meant player controlled ones.
The reason why I'm asking is because I'm bursting with ideas ...
I also have fixes for the "boredom" problem.
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It was noted somewhere that profits were much higher than expected. I'm hoping they drop the idea of paid DLC, but even if they don't I'll probably still buy them.
well i thought they were adding in pure military stations where capitalships can dock.
I wouldn't mind seeing player controlled cap ships...however, it doesn't really seem feasible to me.
In order to properly captain a capital ship, you need a lot more situation awareness than you do in a forward facing cockpit.
You would need a 360 view or some kind of detailed tactical view. Bringing guns to bear by pointing your ship at the target would take ages and would be entirely ineffective.
You would need much more nuanced control of systems, specifically weapons and it would be kind of silly if you couldn't engage multiple targets (not fire at will turrets but aim large guns at incoming bomber run and maintain short range fire on nearby fighters).
Really, I think making capships a playable option is another game entirely. Which wouldn't be out of their wheelhouse, seeing as they are pretty much adding a whole other game's worth of features in the first person expansion. Either way, I would expect capship piloting to be an entirely different experience, if it were to be done correctly.
Of course, you could just spend untold amounts of money on a ship you just fly in circles while it goes pew pew for you, but what is the fun in that?
In order to properly captain a capital ship, you need a lot more situation awareness than you do in a forward facing cockpit.
You would need a 360 view or some kind of detailed tactical view. Bringing guns to bear by pointing your ship at the target would take ages and would be entirely ineffective.
You would need much more nuanced control of systems, specifically weapons and it would be kind of silly if you couldn't engage multiple targets (not fire at will turrets but aim large guns at incoming bomber run and maintain short range fire on nearby fighters).
Really, I think making capships a playable option is another game entirely. Which wouldn't be out of their wheelhouse, seeing as they are pretty much adding a whole other game's worth of features in the first person expansion. Either way, I would expect capship piloting to be an entirely different experience, if it were to be done correctly.
Of course, you could just spend untold amounts of money on a ship you just fly in circles while it goes pew pew for you, but what is the fun in that?
I would expect that the captain of the ship wouldn't even be rooted in a 'cockpit' like smaller ships. He'd be walking around the bridge keeping an eye on subordinates. It'd be challenging, and probably very fun, to crew one of these ships, but it won't even be feasible until walkarounds are added. There will also simply have to be more capital-friendly environments before it's worth the effort. Currently there's nothing to do with a capital ship; they only appear to add some backdrop to certain conflict zones and are rarely seen outside of that.
Ah yes, capital ships. People have the strangest ideas about what those words mean. ^^
If the Star Defence Navy of Podunkia consists of two Sidewinders and an Eagle then the Eagle is its capital ship.
If the Star Defence Navy of Podunkia consists of two Sidewinders and an Eagle then the Eagle is its capital ship.
In fact the Anaconda is 10 meters longer than this ship at 280 meters from bow to stern:
It can be tough to wrap your head around the scale in Elite, but there it is.
Personally 280 meters doesn't feel quite right (I would think it was closer to 180) but that's the official number. Also keep in mind that ~150-200 m/s is average speed for passing through the mail slot. Imagine a cruise ship passing you at 450 miles per hour and you've just about got it.
It can be tough to wrap your head around the scale in Elite, but there it is.
Personally 280 meters doesn't feel quite right (I would think it was closer to 180) but that's the official number. Also keep in mind that ~150-200 m/s is average speed for passing through the mail slot. Imagine a cruise ship passing you at 450 miles per hour and you've just about got it.
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I think the problem with capital ships is the conflict between maneuverability and collision with other ships as well as with its own fighters when they take off.
If the capital ship steers slowly, it can't drive against smaller ships when turning, but at the same time nerfing its maneuverability and speed makes it boring to use.
There needs to be a middle way.
I'd like to recommend taking a look at Star Trek Starfleet Command for getting an idea of how a pilot/captain should be able to control their capital ship:
It's not so much about their actual speed, but much more about how many things you get to do while maneuvering.
Take AC Black Flag as another reference.
Of course that game is far away from space combat but you're also controlling a vehicle that is slow at maneuvering, yet enjoyable to play.
The Point is that maneuvering becomes less of the actual action and more of a tactical choice.
You have to anticipate the movements of your opponent and choose how to maneuver, to keep your ship in an ideal firing position relative to its target.
You make tactical choices beyond that by deciding wether to use the broad side of your ship for high dps, or to use disruptor weaponry at the front of your ship.
Aside from maneuvering you'll also order fighter drones to attack specific targets as well as manage the energy output of your ship to keep the shields up, guns firing and engines running like you do with smaller ships, just maybe more in-depth.
And with fighter drones I meant remote controlled ships.
That is necessary to protect a carrier while nobody is online.
If only the pilot is online they still need to be able to defend themselves against ships with comparable firepower.
Therefore a carrier should be able to remote-control its fighters through AI as well as through other players.
Why even stuff a human into a tiny ship while you're in the middle of a large scale battle?
It would be far more effective if the pilot stood inside the carrier and remote-controlled the fighter.
If an enemy ship specifically targets player controlled fighters, they won't get to ruin their day entirely, the fighter pilot will be able to switch to another fighter.
A player crewmember would for example use a VR-seat inside the carrier (tactically spoken it should be near the accommodations) to take control over turrets and fighters.
That would also allow outside-combat gameplay for crewmembers.
A carrier needs to be able to supply themselves from nearby stations through small cargo ships.
Those can be player remote-controlled ships aswell.
Carrier wants to jump while supply ship is still active? Captain gets a warning message. If ignored, the supply ship will be left behind and the controls will be cut-off. (why even bother to avoid that programmingwise?)
Another problem that might occur is how to launch a fighter off a rapidly moving carrier.
I believe the answer is simpler than it first appears:
Simply launch a fighter like a projectile.
If it moves fast enough out of the carrier it can't collide with the carrier's hull.
I imagine it to work like a monorail would:
The figher is trapped in a force field that keeps it in the middle of the ramp as it accelerates.
But how do you land a fighter afterwards?
If the carrier is at least halfway maneuverable enough to be fun to play, a figher would more likely crash into the carrier, than land on it.
There is multiple ways to solve this:
A) you can't land until the carrier is brought to a full stop and extends landing pads that get the fighter back into the carrier.
B) you use the force-field rail technology to catch incoming fighters like with a net, then guide it back into the ship.
I'd prefer A.
Money.
A carrier should of course be expensive and a normal player may not be able to purchase one all by themselves without extreme effort.
That adds another topic to the whole story: Guilds
I'd have another couple thousand ideas for how to implement guilds into Elite
angerous but let's keep it short for now:
Players form guilds, guilds make more cash than single players, that cash can be spent for a capital ship or what ever else, depending on their priorities and playstyle.
If the capital ship steers slowly, it can't drive against smaller ships when turning, but at the same time nerfing its maneuverability and speed makes it boring to use.
There needs to be a middle way.
I'd like to recommend taking a look at Star Trek Starfleet Command for getting an idea of how a pilot/captain should be able to control their capital ship:
It's not so much about their actual speed, but much more about how many things you get to do while maneuvering.
Take AC Black Flag as another reference.
Of course that game is far away from space combat but you're also controlling a vehicle that is slow at maneuvering, yet enjoyable to play.
The Point is that maneuvering becomes less of the actual action and more of a tactical choice.
You have to anticipate the movements of your opponent and choose how to maneuver, to keep your ship in an ideal firing position relative to its target.
You make tactical choices beyond that by deciding wether to use the broad side of your ship for high dps, or to use disruptor weaponry at the front of your ship.
Aside from maneuvering you'll also order fighter drones to attack specific targets as well as manage the energy output of your ship to keep the shields up, guns firing and engines running like you do with smaller ships, just maybe more in-depth.
And with fighter drones I meant remote controlled ships.
That is necessary to protect a carrier while nobody is online.
If only the pilot is online they still need to be able to defend themselves against ships with comparable firepower.
Therefore a carrier should be able to remote-control its fighters through AI as well as through other players.
Why even stuff a human into a tiny ship while you're in the middle of a large scale battle?
It would be far more effective if the pilot stood inside the carrier and remote-controlled the fighter.
If an enemy ship specifically targets player controlled fighters, they won't get to ruin their day entirely, the fighter pilot will be able to switch to another fighter.
A player crewmember would for example use a VR-seat inside the carrier (tactically spoken it should be near the accommodations) to take control over turrets and fighters.
That would also allow outside-combat gameplay for crewmembers.
A carrier needs to be able to supply themselves from nearby stations through small cargo ships.
Those can be player remote-controlled ships aswell.
Carrier wants to jump while supply ship is still active? Captain gets a warning message. If ignored, the supply ship will be left behind and the controls will be cut-off. (why even bother to avoid that programmingwise?)
Another problem that might occur is how to launch a fighter off a rapidly moving carrier.
I believe the answer is simpler than it first appears:
Simply launch a fighter like a projectile.
If it moves fast enough out of the carrier it can't collide with the carrier's hull.
I imagine it to work like a monorail would:
The figher is trapped in a force field that keeps it in the middle of the ramp as it accelerates.
But how do you land a fighter afterwards?
If the carrier is at least halfway maneuverable enough to be fun to play, a figher would more likely crash into the carrier, than land on it.
There is multiple ways to solve this:
A) you can't land until the carrier is brought to a full stop and extends landing pads that get the fighter back into the carrier.
B) you use the force-field rail technology to catch incoming fighters like with a net, then guide it back into the ship.
I'd prefer A.
Money.
A carrier should of course be expensive and a normal player may not be able to purchase one all by themselves without extreme effort.
That adds another topic to the whole story: Guilds
I'd have another couple thousand ideas for how to implement guilds into Elite
angerous but let's keep it short for now:Players form guilds, guilds make more cash than single players, that cash can be spent for a capital ship or what ever else, depending on their priorities and playstyle.
Would be fun if you could dock with a cap ship and go on a multiplayer mission. So when it arrives at its mission destination & deploys its fighters you and the other online players fight an enemy squadron.
Great, executive control and you sneaked guilds in - two topics done to death already.
Of course it's been discussed alot.
Capital ship battles are what turns "nice" space combat into "awesome UB3R epic" space combat.
But what about the ideas I posted?
Any comments or constructive critique on that?
Source ?