Station Ramming. FD, is there going to be any viable counter?

[Majinvash]

Hi

While I cannot say station ramming is not part of the game because you can do it, so be it.

There needs to be some form of counter and I wonder if FD have any plans they would like to share?

Currently the only counter is to resort to..Yes.. Station ramming. Which is as sad, as the people that do it.

Cheers FD

Majinvash

 

[Night Fury]

station taking hostile action against rammers that cause death should be the best approach, also buffing further the station's defenses

 

[Sugarat]

station taking hostile action against rammers that cause death should be the best approach, also buffing further the station's defenses

Problem here is determining what is a Ram and what is accidental. And who caused the collision.

 

[Remiel]

Gotta say, I've played a lot of Elite so far and I've yet to be rammed by a single station.

 

[Sugarat]

Gotta say, I've played a lot of Elite so far and I've yet to be rammed by a single station.

I, however, have rammed several

 

[TMC]

How about when any two ships collide for any reason at a station, both have to leave immediately and re-request landing permission or be destroyed. If someone is hanging out at the station to ram other players, they would probably be annoyed by having to keep leaving and coming back. Plus, after 2 or 3 times they would be blocked for a day or a few hours.

 

[Remiel]

I, however, have rammed several

Onionhead, not even once.

As an afterthought, I want to add...

Pics or it didn't happen.

 

[Sugarat]

Hi

While I cannot say station ramming is not part of the game because you can do it, so be it.

There needs to be some form of counter and I wonder if FD have any plans they would like to share?

Currently the only counter is to resort to..Yes.. Station ramming. Which is as sad, as the people that do it.

Cheers FD

Majinvash

To my mind the only workable solution is to make it a reportable offence, for that to work tho' you would of course have to know who rammed you.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

Problem here is determining what is a Ram and what is accidental. And who caused the collision.

This was discussed at length in the DDF (as were most things). I have forgotten the details, but we decided it was very difficult. So, a bit like combat logging, it is probably going to be too difficult to spot deliberate ramming from a single instance, though it may be possible to collect telemetry, and see how often individual pilots get involved in collisions. Then the rammers should be obvious.

However, at the moment, it does not really matter. Ramming seems to me to be a perfectly acceptable course of action: if the quickest and easiest way to kill an opponent is to ram him, them you should ram him. The issue is CMDRs using ramming to avoid consequences, since they are not guilty of murder from a ramming. At the moment, when consequences for murder are insignificant, it hardly matters. But if Michael's announcement tomorrow says what it should say (and what he should have said months ago), then it will become even more important. If significant consequences are added for murder, but ramming is not sorted out, then expect the griefers (yes, yes, I know) to all start to ram.

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To my mind the only workable solution is to make it a reportable offence, for that to work tho' you would of course have to know who rammed you.

Anything that relies on reporting is prone to abuse: people reporting you for the lols when you are completely innocent.

 

[Sugarat]

This was discussed at length in the DDF (as were most things). I have forgotten the details, but we decided it was very difficult. So, a bit like combat logging, it is probably going to be too difficult to spot deliberate ramming from a single instance, though it may be possible to collect telemetry, and see how often individual pilots get involved in collisions. Then the rammers should be obvious.

However, at the moment, it does not really matter. Ramming seems to me to be a perfectly acceptable course of action: if the quickest and easiest way to kill an opponent is to ram him, them you should ram him. The issue is CMDRs using ramming to avoid consequences, since they are not guilty of murder from a ramming. At the moment, when consequences for murder are insignificant, it hardly matters. But if Michael's announcement tomorrow says what it should say (and what he should have said months ago), then it will become even more important. If significant consequences are added for murder, but ramming is not sorted out, then expect the griefers (yes, yes, I know) to all start to ram.

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Anything that relies on reporting is prone to abuse: people reporting you for the lols when you are completely innocent.

Thread is specifically related to station ramming, of course ramming is a valid combat tactic. Also reports are generated with a time and date, so, as with telemetry, if a player is reported for multiple rams within a short time frame this could indicate the need for further investigation. Reports should never be taken as proof for any instance for the very reason you stated.

 

[Lord_Crazy]

We currently have a timer once we are in a station. Being involve in an incident (either accident, or ramming or being rammed) could progressively lower the time allowed in the station: if you were ramming to much time would fly and you would have to leave the premises before the station shoots at you.

 

[Crash1099]

I have had security forces ram me when they where trying to scan me.

 

[pluton]

Ramming a hostile ship during combat is OK, but the problem here is griefers who ram ships as they dock. There's no counter and there's no accountability.

For example, a Clipper hovers inside George Lucas station. B7 shields and 4*shield boosters. When an innocent player [1] approaches to dock, the Clipper boosts out and rams the player in the letterbox. Either the victim is destoyed (and the Clipper boasts "T6 down!" or whatever on local chat ), or the Clipper insults him ("You rammed me! Look where you're going!"). If anyone criticies him he calls them Crybabies and says "Frontier don't give a <redacted>". He continues doing this for several days. He stays inside the station no fire zone, so the station defends him.

The game doesn't recognize ramming as an offence, even repeated ramming by the same player, so the station takes no action, even though it's obvious to anyone watching. The victim can't take avoiding action, and probably doesn't even know the name of the CMDR who rammed him. No counter, no penalty, and no valid game reason for station ramming.

It should be possible for the game to take action. In a collision, allocate blame depending on relative velocity or momentum or combination of both. If the collison causes damage or significant shield loss, the CMDR at fault gets a warning and a small fine. A second offense within a time period and he gets a threat and a bigger fine, A third and he's banned from the station for 24 hours, Futher offenses at other stations get a ban more quickly.

It would be better if the game gave more information about cause of death. If a collision, then show the name of the other CMDR, so you can apologise or retaliate, as appropriate.

Until then, station ramming griefers should be reported so that Frontier knows about the problem. It's clearly an exploit. If you don't know their identity, ask on local chat. Or just listen and you'll probably hear the rammer talking about his exploits.

Always put 4 pips to shields when approaching or leaving a station.

[1] Although the OP is a noted CODE pirate.

 

[Stigbob]

Switch to solo when landing in lave/leesti/any busy station with ships round the letterbox, its less hassle and faster than 4 pips to shields and scanning the landing bay on approach you also jump any docking queue.

It completely nueters station griefers, if you are feeling mean switch back to open just to taunt them via comm from inside the station, then leave in solo and switch back to open to taunt them again before you jump.

 

[Sugarat]

Although the OP is a noted CODE pirate.

Don't see that this is any way relevant to the topic...

 

[ianw]

Gotta say, I've played a lot of Elite so far and I've yet to be rammed by a single station.

Try Gliese 868 - Bacon Port - big bar going through sticking out both sides.

Wasn't concentrating and it cost me a 6 mill rebuy!

 

[pluton]

Don't see that this is any way relevant to the topic...

That's why it's only a footnote.

 

[Apos]

There is already a viable counter to this.

It's called buying a federal dropship or type-9, going to said station and daring them to try and ram you.

 

[kirkkh]

Hi

While I cannot say station ramming is not part of the game because you can do it, so be it.

There needs to be some form of counter and I wonder if FD have any plans they would like to share?

Currently the only counter is to resort to..Yes.. Station ramming. Which is as sad, as the people that do it.

Cheers FD

Majinvash

In reality "space traffic controllers" would warn stray ships. Like flying off course at a military base, you'd be shot down.

And spaceships would have auto-correction for collisions, even BMW's have that.

....But it's a game. And reality is uber boring.

 

[Evil]

Drop into solo, undock and back into open, easy solution if you are afraid of people ramming you. Other than that, force an automatic speed limit within the station perimeter (but that makes docking boring and would suck big time), or remove ramming from the game (which would suck as well, no bumper cars please !).

The only way to get the information for high speed collisions is through observation, and then after which you get to the whole, my right of way situation. Tbh I dont think theres much that can be done for this.