I just said the price tag should be upgraded along with it's speed.
The Eagle needs MOAR SPEED!
- Thread starter Sentience
- Start date
I just said the price tag should be upgraded along with it's speed.
So you want a mini vulture .-.
Let me amend that. Obviously mass matters, but it matters less than it would with gravity. If your engine could provide more thrust to mass than the Eagle than your size would be worth it though. So in theory what if your engine was big enough to where it could provide enough thrust vs. mass than an Eagle, that would mean it could accelerate more quickly right?
Also, as long as nothing is slowing you down like drag or gravity in theory you should just keep speeding up as long as you are firing your rockets and you shouldn't slow down unless you applied force against that or you got hit by some gravity from a star or a planet or something.
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Wrong!
(well, sort of since gravity is such an issue)acceleration requires ever increasing power, since it's related to kinetic energy (1/2 mass x Velocity squared)
note that SQUARE, that there is the bugbear, and also, with kinetics, why speed (which relies on acceleration) is so catastrophic in damage, a 30mph car accident is usually of small risk, but at 90pmh you are going to be VERY lucky to walk away or even survive because the energy has gone up by a squared function
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(a car at 70 mph has the same kinetic energy as 1,400 x 7.62 mm machine gun bullets, I worked that out once to try and get it into young folks damn fool heads how dangerous cars are, sigh)
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In every day terms, it's why the horse power and design of cars able to go to 60, 100, 200, or 300mph jump up so enormously.
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No I just want an Eagle with more speed.
I loathe the weapons placement on the Viper. It also maneuvers like a hunk of Soviet pot metal from the early Cold War. It's a lead sled, and the main weapons can't be placed reliably on target when the adversary is 15 degrees above the nose.
Part of the reason this thread exists is that the Viper could be a *lot* better as a step up. I will leave the Vulture Ego Ship Argument alone, except to say that giving it a 9 maneuver with those huge mounts is a crime.
We need a P-51 or F-86 equivalent.
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Wrong!
acceleration requires ever increasing power, since it's related to kinetic energy (1/2 mass x Velocity squared)
note that SQUARE, that there is the bugbear, and also, with kinetics, why speed (which relies on acceleration) is so catastrophic in damage, a 30mph car accident is usually of small risk, but at 90pmh you are going to be VERY lucky to walk away or even survive because the energy has gone up by a squared function
~
(a car at 70 mph has the same kinetic energy as 1,400 x 7.62 mm machine gun bullets, I worked that out once to try and get it into young folks damn fool heads how dangerous cars are, sigh)
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In every day terms, it's why the horse power and design of cars able to go to 60, 100, 200, or 300mph jump up so enormously.
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In atmosphere, doubling the airspeed requires 8 times the power- a cube root curve (2V= E^3).
Then what ship would you replace the Eagle with? The most important function of the Eagle is to teach new pilots about getting new ships, how to outfit new ships, how to balance power/weapons/shields/heat/etc. The second most important function is to teach basic combat. You can outfit an Eagle pretty decently, head into a conflict zone, and start fighting and kill a few things. Chances are good you'll get destroyed of course, but then the Eagles third (but still extremely important) function comes in - it teaches new players about insurance, and what happens if they can't cover their losses. Being bumped back down to a Sidewinder from an Eagle is not catastrophic or disheartening.
Given that, you need a vehicle occupying the space the Eagle is sitting in at the moment. Why ask for the Eagle to be buffed? Why not ask for a new ship altogether?
I do miss the fun i had in my eagle hugging bigger ships bums and staying out of turret fire. Also the viper was fun, more like jousting at medieval tournaments. Fly past burn a lot of firepower. turn around and repeat before they've completed the turn.
Im now in a vulture which feels more like an eagle in terms of maneuverability but ill be honest i can go lazy and face tank a conda in that thing. Mind you its worth bomb so it had better be good to an extent.
Id like a new viper type ship with better point placement. Is it just me or do a lot of the 'fighter' class ships have horrific weapon places. Vipers mediums are annoying when you get the ship as you have to be above your target, and the only feedback ive ever had off the FDL is 'oh god the weapon placement' Eagle was good and i cant complain with the vulture is they're either side of you.
Im now in a vulture which feels more like an eagle in terms of maneuverability but ill be honest i can go lazy and face tank a conda in that thing. Mind you its worth bomb so it had better be good to an extent.
Id like a new viper type ship with better point placement. Is it just me or do a lot of the 'fighter' class ships have horrific weapon places. Vipers mediums are annoying when you get the ship as you have to be above your target, and the only feedback ive ever had off the FDL is 'oh god the weapon placement' Eagle was good and i cant complain with the vulture is they're either side of you.
You can give the Eagle all the speed you want but my Vulture of death will still vapourise it before its moved 3 feet!!
3 feet? I'll take that bet, I am confident I can boost to at least 4 (and an half) feet before I am slag :-D
*edit*
I don't know anything about cars so cannot really add to that discussion.
Giving the Eagle a great ability to change velocity to go with its turn rate would be a good solution, should it need it, I do not notice any issues when I fly my Eagle
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Spot on, if you're in a tight situation and you need to bug out quick, well right now you stand no chance...You could be a Grand-Master in piloting and that won't mean Jack. All the Eagle has is agility...guess what... SO DOES THE VULTURE! and more!
the Eagle needs more speed. Either more Boost or Top Speed, or both.I love the Eagle, it's probably my favourite ship...followed by the Viper.....it needs more speed.
I feel safe in a Viper, know why? Cause I can bug out quick sticks if things go bad.... the Eagle needs the same escape angle...Its bloody fragile....it needs this...agility alone won't save it.
Well, in real life, the bigger a vessel is, the faster it can go, because of mass to volume ratios.
Ok that's simplistic but it's basically the case.
larger craft can take huge engines and still leave enough room for useful stuff, and ocean going craft suffer less drag comparatively the bigger they get
example, take a cube ok useless as an oceanic vessel but easier to work with
1 metre cubed = 1 cubic metre, 6 square metres of surface space (6 faces each 1 metre x1 metre) = 1:6 ratio
2 metre cube = 8 cubic metres, 24 square metre surface = 1:3 ratio
3 metre cube = 27 cubic metres, 54 square metre surface = 1:2 ratio
etc
it does have one problem though, bigger an object or creature is, because of this ratio, harder it is to cool down, as it has less surface area to vent heat. but you can redirect heat as a power source, ie recycling. Energy can be used to cool!
with advanced tech, almost any waste energy, kinetic or thermal, could be used for power.
all this also means, big guns do a hell of a lot more damage as they scale up!
a 20 mm cannon will tear a man apart
a 200 mm howitzer will obliterate a house.
I understand your theory and maths. But how long does a 200mm Howitzer take to load over a 20mm cannon? Let's say this...I ride 650cc Suzuki bike, a small ship (Eagle) with good handling (agility) I can out accelerate any car not worth 100k. However, as cheaper, smaller cars (Vipers) go. They will begin to catch me as they move through their gears gaining momentum and speed.
I agree with an earlier statement in this thread. Give the Eagle a higher acceleration rate, but not a higher speed.
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Acceleration is rather unimportant since when you need to go as fast as possible, you use boost anyway. Now improved deceleration might be another thing, but I think the Eagle still needs more top+boost speed.
You replace it with nothing.
I went from a Sidewinder straight to the Viper. You can earn money fairly quickly in the beginning just by killing pirates at the Nav Beacon.
The Sidewinder is what a pilot uses to learn. It's what I learned in when killing pirates. After flying the Eagle, I feel a heck of a lot safer in the Sidewinder.
Sure you can outfit it to the teeth, but by the time you've done that you can just buy the Viper outright.
The Eagle's "space" isn't a necessary space. Sidewinder to Viper is just fine.
What they could do is lower the price to maybe 100k or so.
After that another ship would be needed to bridge the gap to the Vulture, because 150k to 4.5 million is a bit long.
Every other ship between the Viper and the Vulture isn't a dedicated combat ship and can't match what the Viper does for 150k.
Meanwhile the Eagle can be increased to around 80k. With increased speed it's more of a sidegrade then a downgrade from the Viper, but with the Viper's medium hardpoints it would be considered slightly worth more as it can attack larger targets easier.
With a pricepoint so close together between the current Eagle and Viper, they should share the same tier more or less.
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Speed or agility not both there are two styles to Combat Turn and Burn or Zoom and Boom Eagle is Turn and Burn Viper is Zoom and Boom To ask for Both speed and Agility in the Eagle is rather selfserving,Even if you upped the price what would you make the top speed of the Eagle? As fast as Viper
It can be as fast and as manoeverable as you want, but you aren't lasting long versus anything with a decent turret or a good pilot with big guns.
Nasty anarchy system:
Not half an hour ago, I made a pirate Viper run away from me in Orson The Eagle. Couldn't catch him.
Fifteen minutes ago, I ate a fully equipped pirate Sidewinder.
The Eagle *does* fill a role/slot.
But, two maxed pirate Adders hounded me to death. That medium hardpoint they both carried made the difference. The AI's are working better in flights. One ran, while the other tangled with me. Classic Kuban Shelf. I break off, both go after me. Huge beams on both. Try to boost out, got fried.
So, there is a need for a ship that can stand two opponents, that costs less than the Vulture. The Viper can't target/turn properly, and must run to gain separation before re-engaging (or jumping).
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Additional: The Cobra has better weapons above the nose, but must also run from multiple opponents. It's shields are inferior to the Viper. For pure combat, it's a Viper to Vulture jump. Not good for the single pilot.
Not half an hour ago, I made a pirate Viper run away from me in Orson The Eagle. Couldn't catch him.
Fifteen minutes ago, I ate a fully equipped pirate Sidewinder.
The Eagle *does* fill a role/slot.
But, two maxed pirate Adders hounded me to death. That medium hardpoint they both carried made the difference. The AI's are working better in flights. One ran, while the other tangled with me. Classic Kuban Shelf. I break off, both go after me. Huge beams on both. Try to boost out, got fried.
So, there is a need for a ship that can stand two opponents, that costs less than the Vulture. The Viper can't target/turn properly, and must run to gain separation before re-engaging (or jumping).
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Additional: The Cobra has better weapons above the nose, but must also run from multiple opponents. It's shields are inferior to the Viper. For pure combat, it's a Viper to Vulture jump. Not good for the single pilot.
The Eagle has some roles as it is. A main one is as trader escort: the Vulture or Viper just don't have the jumprange for it. It is also a perfect training ship for learning FA off, fixed weapons and such. Or as a sneaky 'stealth finisher' in a wing versus larger vessels: stay out of it all until its shield are down, and then move in from range with 3xdumfires for example. The Eagle is a seriously outdated design, but it is cheap and has some uses. Seems fine with me.