Station Ramming. FD, is there going to be any viable counter?

[Straylight0]

Ramming needs to be dealt with urgently, as it is being used as a weapon without repercussions. It’s like it being fine to kill someone with a baseball bat, but not to shoot them!

How about...


If you ram someone clean more than once within 3 minutes and do more than 10% damage to them each time, it’s an assault. If you destroy someone clean by ramming them and doing more than 20% damage, or damaging them by more than 30% total in the last 3 minutes, it counts as a murder.


Yes,this could happen by accident, but that would be a risk of the game you had to guard against, similar to not being blown up because of pad loitering.


Perhaps this same system could be adapted for Friendly Fire?

 

[GluttonyFang]

Hi

While I cannot say station ramming is not part of the game because you can do it, so be it.

There needs to be some form of counter and I wonder if FD have any plans they would like to share?

Currently the only counter is to resort to..Yes.. Station ramming. Which is as sad, as the people that do it.

Cheers FD

Majinvash

Love you Maj, but it seems a little hard to fix.

Who was the rammer?
How do we determine that?

The person who had higher speed before collision is the rammer?
What if rammers stay stationary in front of the entrance and have you bump into him?
What degree of impact do we constitute to be ramming?
If it is too low, the slightest of love tab will get you killed.
If it is too high, then station ramming will simply be station sexual harassment (if we take the liberty to grant ships genders)
Report players?
How do we reconstruct the scene from server data?
Is video proof the only evidence?
Does FD really care? (Evidently not since there are still many hackers roaming proudly despite numerous video evidence submitted to FD against them)

Sorry, I lose faith easily. Just that FD is the recent subject I detached from.

 

[SMcA]

I, however, have rammed several

LOL Me too.
That is why I have a flat nose.

 

[Sotapeikko]

Stations projecting "bumber car" safety bubble shields on legally docking ships.
Could be tied to a speed limit so you could live dangerously if you want to.

 

[KiraNerys]

Problem here is determining what is a Ram and what is accidental. And who caused the collision.

I don't know the game specifics but I guess somewhere in the logs would be written that entity X dealt Y kinetic/ramming damage to entity Z

 

[EUS]

CMDR collision counter would pretty much point out who's ramming whom.
FD could implement game mechanics against those that in a no fire zone have abnormally high qty collisions/time period.

 

[jmp470]

Switch to solo when landing in lave/leesti/any busy station with ships round the letterbox, its less hassle and faster than 4 pips to shields and scanning the landing bay on approach you also jump any docking queue.

It completely nueters station griefers, if you are feeling mean switch back to open just to taunt them via comm from inside the station, then leave in solo and switch back to open to taunt them again before you jump.

That's an awesome idea!!!! It is the best way to make them mad.... I will do it when I get back to civilization... just to do it.... no other reason....

 

[Noddie]

I don't know the game specifics but I guess somewhere in the logs would be written that entity X dealt Y kinetic/ramming damage to entity Z

Or how about a system that continuously records the last 30 seconds of game time. If you're not happy about something you press a key combination and it's reported. If there are more than X number of reports about a given commander's behaviour, the logs are reviewed by Frontier staff who decide what to do about it.

Or - Seems simple to me. Count the number of collisions a commander has and penalise them accordingly.

Let's say you start with a score of 30. Every collision takes a point off you. The station will issue a small fine for every collision you have, and remove a point. As your points get lower the fines get bigger and - here is the nice part - the number of collisions you can have on any one visit goes down. If you reach that limit the station will fire on you. So if you have a bad day and are usually well-behaved you get a fine. If you're a pain in the neck you get shot up by the stations if you don't keep your nose clean.

You do get a small fine if a griefer rams you. But so do they, and they're on their way to a BIG fine.

OR - another option - players could (on a voluntary basis) "man" the station and analyse what's going on and shoot at griefers. IF reports come in of someone being a pain one of this group is notified and can check it out and decide what to do. Quite a lot of work to make up an interface, though.

 

[therealstubot]

First of all, station ramming is a poor name for this. I read several posts before understanding that this was referring to a player ramming another ship near or in a station. From the name, I assumed it was someone colliding with the station for profit. I would classify this as Station Misconduct, although that sounds like the station is doing naughty things. Perhaps Free Zone Ramming, or Free Zone Aggression. However it's named, I'm astounded at the creativity of people who have the sole intention of ruining someones day for their own amusement. There is no profit from ramming someone in a no-fire zone. Seemingly, in most cases, this is just a random act of aggression. Someone in the wrong place at the wrong time. This is precisely the reason I play in solo. I don't need the aggravation.

Two ships bump anywhere in the no fire zone... burn them both. Unless you can determine intention and assign guilt without error, it's the only way.

The griefee is dying regardless, he's not going to care one way or the other.
The greifer might build his ship to survive the smash, but if the policy is to destroy everyone involved, then that negates the appeal.

There might be a way for each ship to determine if a commander is steering toward another ship with a fatal velocity and if it impacts the ship, then it sefl destructs. Perhaps a warning or klaxon on each ship to warn of a ship on collision course or with a high probability of damage due to impact. Maybe shields could adjust to the point where the perceived impact would occur. Perhaps a new detection device, or even self-defense device, like a point defense device, that would be given exception in a no-fire zone.

N00bs will balk at this since their expertise at docking is not that good. There isn't a penalty for bumping your ship into the letterbox, thank goodness. But if I were the owner of the station, and someone was dragging their ship through my expensive letterbox, I'd want to make them pay for it, one way or another. AND if I were the owner of the station, and someone was abusing my customers for their own amusement, I would be .

The mind set should be that the station is neutral ground, and the use of deadly force is authorized to maintain that neutrality. The rules of Kanly must be met!

Jeff

 

[therealstubot]

OR - another option - players could (on a voluntary basis) "man" the station and analyse what's going on and shoot at griefers. IF reports come in of someone being a pain one of this group is notified and can check it out and decide what to do. Quite a lot of work to make up an interface, though.

And what do we do when the griefer volunteers for this duty? FD isn't going to pay someone to sit in how many thousands of space stations 24/7 and watch for someone being a deek. This may not affect game balance enough for FD to prioritize ANY solution. Eventually griefers will get tired and move on to another game, or another way to exploit and ruin someones day.

 

[Majinvash]

Maybe i should have explained what i meant a little more by counter.

Firstly I want to rule out Solo. As many of you will know from my posts, I don't think solo or group should exist.
Lets please not take this statement as anything than more giving back ground to the following statement.
Having to use Solo to avoid any form of danger is instantly a no go area for me and shouldn't be an option or needed.

Everything in this game has a counter ( Pretty much as far as I can think )
Weapons vs lasers.
Masslock vs Speed.
Strong weapons vs faster energy use/heat.
Heat vs Heat Sinks
Gimble vs Chaff
Etc
Etc

I am also not looking for the station to have to deal with it.
It would be sweet if it did.
However as has been stated; Classing an accidental bump with a deliberate ram, is going to be near impossible to sort.

But it needs something that we can act on. We the players, those who are being rammed.

I think the MOST simple way is that if you ram someone more than once or if you hit something and hull damage it, you instantly become Wanted.
I am assuming in the upcoming DB announcements on crime, that you will not be able to instantly pay off your bounty.
This would fix station ramming instantly.
A wanted Rammer could be targeted and shot, thats all it needs.
Any rammer would then have a very tricky time of staying around. Players and NPC can light them up and they would be prevented from re-docking.
It might have a few players getting accidentally Wanted but it makes for a simple solution in the long run.

Thats my view anyway.

Station rammers are funny as they bounce of my shields but to the smaller ship players, they are a nightmare that can continue with impunity.

Majinvash
A renowned Code Pirate.

 

[gordogomez]

Maybe i should have explained what i meant a little more by counter.

Firstly I want to rule out Solo. As many of you will know from my posts, I don't think solo or group should exist.
Lets please not take this statement as anything than more giving back ground to the following statement.
Having to use Solo to avoid any form of danger is instantly a no go area for me and shouldn't be an option or needed.

Everything in this game has a counter ( Pretty much as far as I can think )
Weapons vs lasers.
Masslock vs Speed.
Strong weapons vs faster energy use/heat.
Heat vs Heat Sinks
Gimble vs Chaff
Etc
Etc

I am also not looking for the station to have to deal with it.
It would be sweet if it did.
However as has been stated; Classing an accidental bump with a deliberate ram, is going to be near impossible to sort.

But it needs something that we can act on. We the players, those who are being rammed.

I think the MOST simple way is that if you ram someone more than once or if you hit something and hull damage it, you instantly become Wanted.
I am assuming in the upcoming DB announcements on crime, that you will not be able to instantly pay off your bounty.
This would fix station ramming instantly.
A wanted Rammer could be targeted and shot, thats all it needs.
Any rammer would then have a very tricky time of staying around. Players and NPC can light them up and they would be prevented from re-docking.
It might have a few players getting accidentally Wanted but it makes for a simple solution in the long run.

Thats my view anyway.

Station rammers are funny as they bounce of my shields but to the smaller ship players, they are a nightmare that can continue with impunity.

Majinvash
A renowned Code Pirate.

And what happens when a griefer in a sidewinder rams your anaconda?

 

[Majinvash]

And what happens when a griefer in a sidewinder rams your anaconda?

They die, I add more to my already huge bounty and remain wanted.

In all seriousness.

Making a ship wanted, isn't much of a grief.

Plus they would die, so wouldn't really get much chance to enjoy any of it for Lulz

 

[Astronut57]

Time allowed to dock and leave the station is too high. It takes far less time to dock than the time currently allowed and even less time to leave the station.
If the alloted time is reduced, the station rammers won't have time to wait around for their unsuspecting victims to enter the station.

 

[Stigbob]

That's an awesome idea!!!! It is the best way to make them mad.... I will do it when I get back to civilization... just to do it.... no other reason....

Yeah the only problem with it is that it becomes compulsive, I was doing circuits round busy systems for no other reason. Then I felt that I was (nearly) as sad as a griefer and stopped.

Having to use Solo to avoid any form of danger is instantly a no go area for me and shouldn't be an option or needed.

I get you're viewpoint you regard solo as "cowardice" and I respect that (without agreeing with it). But to clarify my viewpoint I'm not avoiding danger I routinely play in open, I'm not scared, I've engaged in jousting matches with rammers fun once boring now. I've hit on an easy, fast and amusing way to rob griefer's of the ability to grief. They want to spoil somebodies game for no in-game payoff, just that spoil someones game. So bypass them they no longer matter, or bypass them and tell them you're doing it because they'll feel robbed of the ability to grief.

Who knows it might annoy them enough to leave the no-fire zone and start shooting.

 

[Morbad]

The only thing needed is a reduction in docking time and a limit on how many times you can request permission in short order.

Ten minutes is stupidly long, and this could be knocked down to four minutes with essentially zero issue; leaving could be brought down to two minutes, even 90 seconds. Canceling and requesting permission again should also be removed. You should only be given permission if you have docked and launched, and even then, only two or three dockings should be allowed before a substantial cooldown.

Trespass timers could be shortened as well. The time we had before was a bit low, but 90 seconds is too long.

I think the MOST simple way is that if you ram someone more than once or if you hit something and hull damage it, you instantly become Wanted.

I was fighting against a pair of rammers in Leesti this morning, and was wanted, while within 7km of the station, for over an hour, with minimal consequences.

I had to leave once as the rammers tricked a bystander into attempting to scan me so the station could open fire, but aside from that close call I was not in any real danger from either the security forces, the station, or the multitude of CMDRs in the vicinity. The rammers did try to fire at me (which was the idea, I could not easily attack either of them with an great effect, so I had to rely on warning others and drawing the rammers away), but I was positioned as such that any concerted attack would likely strike the station.

 

[Majinvash]

Thats fair enough.

But IF you had been the griefer and the players affected decided to do something, together about it.

You would have had to leave or be destroyed.

Even a conda being hit by 4-5 players plus the same number of npc's cannot sit around for long.

ED is player driven, it should be player defended too.

 

[Dominico]

This is another one of those situations, like the multiple cargo drops to lag. Like the people exploiting other things i shant name that cant really be fixed without ruining the game for others.

Do they change the rules in a sport when some loser does something bad? Nope... what do they do?

People like this have huge issues. Firstly if it was ai they were ramming they wouldnt do it. They solely do it to cause grief. Simple fix. Reported playersconsistently doing this are banned. End of. Its stupid, and rather than setting low speeds. Putting kn a bounty (yeah that works) or etc, just ban. I don't see why its so complicated.

They add nothing. Have no intent to add anything to the game.

 

[Vasious]

Since it usually requires a Boost to do enough damage to destroy a ship, have a check so that if there is a collision in the NFZ of the Station and there is a collision causing the destruction of a ship, any ships that boosted are targeted and fired upon by the station.

 

[Jorlin]

regarding OP:
just because of your view of solo play... it's open play, deal with it.

just kidding... kind of.