Online play but no PvP

[ATARI.]

^^^ This

Exactly why I don't want to have my experience tarnished by an aggressive minority. The majority of us here have been waiting a generation for this game to arrive and relive their original journey of discovery through the universe.

I don't want my six year old son to watch on thinking about muggings knowing they are most likely to come from real people. I want him to appreciate the scale and complexities of the universe and the thoughts and efforts involved in improving oneself within the game.

If I die to a NPC then it'll be my fault, down to making a risky judgement in journeying to an unstable world or jumping into the unknown as an explorer. If I'm ferrying Food to a stable but hungry world and I get ganked by some l33t dude just for the hell of it, it's not how I remember Elite and not how I want to invest my little spare time.

Unfortunately leaning towards single player...

It sounds like SP is more for you to be honest. I'm an original BBC/Amiga player too, but to have human interaction in Elite is what dreams are made of personally.

I don't want Elite 1, I want Elite Dangerous.

Having someone attack you/be aggressive whatever is, for me, much more realistic than a SP experience could ever offer. And like others have said, you can always disappear to remote areas where you're very unlikely to meet anyone.

 

[Cosmo Bozo]

The only thing i don't like about solo online is that pvpers will just farm in solo online safely and when they get enough resources they will jump in the multiplayer part and go full pvp.
And after a month or two the multiplayer part will just be used for pvp, my idea is if you get resources in the solo online universe you can't carry them over to the multiplayer and only the character can jump in btw, keeping the muliplayer universe alive.

I'd like to think that single player will not necessarily be the safe option.
plenty of crap real pilots out there, and I hope the AI is challenging.
And besides you can probably farm in safe sytems easily enough with all players on if that's what you want to do, they will have police and stuff to contend with in the safer systems

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

The problem with this is that 99.9% of these are likely to be empty shells, meaning no ships to attack, not stations to buy and sell from and no missions other than simple exploration. That sounds like a lonely, empty galaxy in solo play.

Nothing out there except Void Creatures* and Thargoids

* to be confirmed by FD.

 

[CaptGrumpyPants]

Why so much aggression? You're not exactly selling the positive aspects of a PvP universe to those who see it exactly as you're posting.

PvAll has a lot offer in terms of tension and intensity, and has a load of potential for emergent gameplay within the extra dynamics it brings to the universe. The only downside is the relative minority of tedious internet tough guys who give it such a bad name and drive players away from it.

I don't really agree with him, but I don't blame him for sounding hostile...

I had a speech all worked out but I'll spare you all

Suffice it to say that when you change things to make the largest number happy, things get worse for everyone. In the USA the average IQ has dropped 15 points in the last decade alone and the schools are worse than, get this, Slovakia, even. All to make everyone feel equal.

 

[ATARI.]

We'll be giving them medals soon!

 

[Enjou]

Aside from the obvious of playing Solo Online or in a Private Group as others have suggested, if you still want to be in the All Players Group but want a night where you're not likely to be bothered by other players I think there is a rather obvious means of achieving that - keep track of the news feeds.

Think about it. Human civilization in Elite is largely congregated around a 250 light year bubble. That may not sound like much, but given they are going for an accurate galaxy that means that there are 260,000 stars in that area. While many are not going to be inhabited, I don't anticipate having multiple players hanging out in most of the inhabited ones at a given time. This is where the news feeds come in - they let players know about events. As such, the systems that are most crowded are going to be the ones around those with active and upcoming events as those will be the ones with the greatest opportunities for making cash and for PvP. Since the people seeking PvP will largely congregate to those areas, just stay away from them and you'll have a higher chance of not getting attacked by another player.

 

[CaptGrumpyPants]

Exactly why I don't want to have my experience tarnished by an aggressive minority. The majority of us here have been waiting a generation for this game to arrive and relive their original journey of discovery through the universe.

Unfortunately leaning towards single player...

Great! Enjoy single player but be sure not to ask for changes to MP from what the developer wants, please.

I don't appreciate those that want to nerf everything to 'protect themselves or their children' because, in the end, they cause serious damage to any system they touch with this nonsense. You can't protect people from each other and you cannot protect people fro themselves-- that doesn't stop tons of people from trying to force governments and corporations to try, though-- and the governments and corporations are way to happy to do that (helps them tremendously).

When I was growing up, you could still, believe it or not, make a gun shape with your fingers and yell, "bang! BANG!" while playing with your friends. Now, thanks to those who want everyone to be safe, all the time, kids are being suspended and written up for 'terroristic threats' for playing the same games kids have played (and will still try to play) since people played games.

Please, if you want to protect your 6 year old son, cut off your internet and cable and home school him. Don't bring him into MY world and expect MY world to change to accommodate you.

 

[jbkb]

No its not. This was discussed at length and ruled out.

Not sure that's the case unless there was something after the following -

So we're going to be weighing up very carefully the pros and cons of mechanics with this point foremost in our minds. For what it's worth, my take at the moment is that if in the end it starts coming down to further splits in the user base versus losing the interest of chunks of the potential player base, I'll favour splitting.

To sum up, thanks again for all the support! Nothing is set in stone on this issue, but you've given us a whole load of additional information to chew over, which is greatly appreciated!

http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6521

:S

 

[OillyRag]

Why so much aggression? You're not exactly selling the positive aspects of a PvP universe to those who see it exactly as you're posting.

PvAll has a lot offer in terms of tension and intensity, and has a load of potential for emergent gameplay within the extra dynamics it brings to the universe. The only downside is the relative minority of tedious internet tough guys who give it such a bad name and drive players away from it.

^ ^
Totally agree,

In the real world the aggressive minority get marginalized and ostracized, and for good reason. aren't we creating a community here? is it going to be an inclusive positive experience? if not, then in the end sadly Elite D will go the way of the dodo IMO.
Anyway this subject has been done to death and i think the rather elegant solution of blocking people that frontier has come up with will work well, so it's a bit of a moot point.

Cheers.

 

[CaptGrumpyPants]

Aside from the obvious of playing Solo Online or in a Private Group as others have suggested, if you still want to be in the All Players Group but want a night where you're not likely to be bothered by other players I think there is a rather obvious means of achieving that - keep track of the news feeds.

Think about it. Human civilization in Elite is largely congregated around a 250 light year bubble. That may not sound like much, but given they are going for an accurate galaxy that means that there are 260,000 stars in that area. While many are not going to be inhabited, I don't anticipate having multiple players hanging out in most of the inhabited ones at a given time. This is where the news feeds come in - they let players know about events. As such, the systems that are most crowded are going to be the ones around those with active and upcoming events as those will be the ones with the greatest opportunities for making cash and for PvP. Since the people seeking PvP will largely congregate to those areas, just stay away from them and you'll have a higher chance of not getting attacked by another player.

You make sense. I like that. I know this game ain't real life, but it is a fantasy of a 'real universe'. In that universe, you should apply the same common sense you would here or there's not much point in having this great big fantasy world. In the USA's old west, you stayed in the 'civilized' areas or you took a risk. That was life in a dangerous place-- that's what ELITE DANGEROUS is. I certainly don't go walking about alone at night in East Flatbush, Brooklyn and I'd expect to apply that same wisdom to playing online in this, quite obviously, DANGEROUS universe.

In short, stay in policed areas and you'll be almost completely safe from attack. Criminals will not be able to stay very long in these areas or the close by systems as they will be actively hunted and policed.

 

[CaptGrumpyPants]

aren't we creating a community here? is it going to be an inclusive positive experience? if not, then in the end sadly Elite D will go the way of the dodo IMO.......moot point.

Cheers.

Maybe. But first and foremost we are building a simulated and dangerous place to live and play. Once we start trying to force everyone to be positive and inclusive then there's not much left to it. Where's the fun in PLAYING if you can't PLAY? Kinda like telling me I can play freeze tag, but only if I can't touch the other players, laugh or yell, "I won!"...

 

[CaptGrumpyPants]

We'll be giving them medals soon!

No one would ever do anything that silly, would they?

 

[ATARI.]

No one would ever do anything that silly, would they?

Oh, wait - they're called Achievements these days

 

[Gibbonici]

I don't really agree with him, but I don't blame him for sounding hostile...

I had a speech all worked out but I'll spare you all

Suffice it to say that when you change things to make the largest number happy, things get worse for everyone. In the USA the average IQ has dropped 15 points in the last decade alone and the schools are worse than, get this, Slovakia, even. All to make everyone feel equal.

The only reason people want to avoid PvAll is because of the perceived hostility that goes with it, and which is exemplified by From Hell's post. His attitude just confirms every reason those people have for steering clear of it.

It irritates me because having played a lot of open world, PvP-enabled games over the decades, I know that there can be a lot more to them than gobby PKers kidding themselves that they are alpha. There's a load of opportunities for emergent gameplay in a PvP-enabled environment, as players figure out how to handle the dynamics either in groups or alone. There's a lot to be had from it, but the aggressive minority (and it is a minority, if a very loud one) just put people off.

Catering for different play styles has got nothing to do with "political correctness" or whatever, it's just giving people a chance to enjoy a game the way they want. And in this case, that goes for PvPers just as much as PvEers.

The ironic thing is that getting angry about PvEers being catered for is exactly the same as PvEers getting angry about PvPers being catered for. It's same sense of I-want entitlements that rants like that one claim to despise.


TL;DR - If we want more people to dip their toe in the PvAll game, getting angry about them ain't gonna do it.

 

[Caribou]

The only reason people want to avoid PvAll is because of the perceived hostility that goes with it, and which is exemplified by From Hell's post. His attitude just confirms every reason those people have for steering clear of it.

FromHell has been a vocal proponent of a certain type of game and is pretty sure that it isn't going to be what he wants. I am at the other end of the spectrum (like the OP in actual fact) and I am sure I am not getting what I want, I had my hissy fit a while back but FromHell is still working out his frustrations I suspect. He surfaces every now and then.

Anyway I'd just let it wash over you - he (FromHell) can make some very well reasoned points as well. But they are all on a theme.

 

[Caribou]

Catering for different play styles has got nothing to do with "political correctness" or whatever, it's just giving people a chance to enjoy a game the way they want. And in this case, that goes for PvPers just as much as PvEers.

And +1 for the other bits

 

[CaptGrumpyPants]

The ironic thing is that getting angry about PvEers being catered for is exactly the same as PvEers getting angry about PvPers being catered for. It's same sense of I-want entitlements that rants like that rants like that one claim to despise.


TL;DR - If we want more people to dip their toe in the PvAll game, getting angry about them ain't gonna do it.

The REALLY ironic thing is that the masses call for changes to games that haven't even been made yet so that they play like and have features from other games they've already played AND, get this, been griefed in....

That is what is getting my goat and probably FromHells, as well... How about this novel approach (worked back in the 80s)? Let the developers build the games and we buy and play them. If we don't like them, we don't play them. But we are not developers and really don't know how to build a fun game; proof being that we just keep feeding them features from other games we wish were better to begin with

 

[Memnoch]

I've seen several posters here mention the word "farm". In the context of this game, and how farming is going to somehow give the "farmer" an advantage over those that don't, what exactly do you think they will be farming that would achieve this?

Kills?
Credits?
Equipment?

I'm not seeing any advantage of playing in Solo Online for a few months then enter PvP with some perceived edge over other players. Whatever they are doing, would that not be possible in full online mode?

 

[Gibbonici]

The REALLY ironic thing is that the masses call for changes to games that haven't even been made yet so that they play like and have features from other games they've already played AND, get this, been griefed in....

That is what is getting my goat and probably FromHells, as well... How about this novel approach (worked back in the 80s)? Let the developers build the games and we buy and play them. If we don't like them, we don't play them. But we are not developers and really don't know how to build a fun game; proof being that we just keep feeding them features from other games we wish were better to begin with

I'm pretty much with you on all that, but this thread is about people choosing to play SP rather than the multiplayer game. I don't think anyone is demanding a PvP-free multiplayer experience even if they might regret there not being one. The only person who's gone off on one about the way the game is being developed isn't a PvEer.

I'd love it if everyone gave the All Players Group a chance, but PvP has such a bad reputation that it overshadows all the other opportunities and experiences that the APG will offer. It's a shame because there seem to be enough systems in place (ignore lists, NPC police, rep penalties for PKing, etc) to stop griefing and such getting as bad as in other games.

Anyway, it's not that important in the grand scheme of things. Everything we're speculating on now and getting worried or excited about will be inconsequential once the game comes out and we're all gadding about the galaxy doing whatever it is we're in it to do.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

I'm not seeing any advantage of playing in Solo Online for a few months then enter PvP with some perceived edge over other players. Whatever they are doing, would that not be possible in full online mode?

If only that was the case.

Those players may not last 5 seconds in PvP combat against experienced human opponents if all they've done in the previous month is play solo.

The more likely scenario is a PvPer living primarily in the All-group preying on traders, while using his own trader character to trade solo - hiding away from other PvPers - in his own little solo group and using it to finance his PvP character. Using the proceeds to pay off bounties and benefactors, to supply it with top end equipment and ships. Is that fair? Possibly because we can all do it I suppose. I guess we choose to follow suit, or stick to our principles.

But anyway its still open to debate whether solo play will be easier than the All group to gather resources or exploit lucrative trade routes in. Some think the npc's could be so badass in solo play that they make up for the lack of human intelligent opponents that adapt on the fly in MP. Lets wait and see!