No money for insurance -> basically delete your game

[rootsrat]

Hi,

Even though I'm mildy mad, I'll try to explain the point (I'm sure this is posted every week, at least).
To start from the beginning:
Actually I do like and love hardcore games, I do like games that make me think, that make me want to get better, that have a very steep learning curve.
I don't have a problem with dying, or dying often, or dying every damn time in a damn game, till you learn how to develop yourself.
But what the actual is this? Never did the game explain to me, that if I don't have enough money for my insurance and the 600,000 loan are not enough, my progress of hundreds of hours is gone forever.
Details might bore you, but in 200 hours and 30.000.000 credits later, it was the first time ever I got into this situation. In this ressource point with these many asteroids, I got a lag and my Clipper crashed into the big damn stone.
Instant death.
And now I have to start over with the ing Sidewinder and the bit credits I got left _again_ to grind 200 hours _a_g_a_i_n_?!
Isn't there any better solution for this?
Frontier, don't you got any alternative, instead of basically deleting everything the player has ever achieved?
Couldn't there be a hardcore mode or at least a big damn warning sign at the beginning?

Doesn't the tutorial cover it? Genuine question, I've never done them since the Premium Beta, and there were less than there are now... Anyway if it was an accidental death due to server lag/game bug ticket it and explain what's happened. Frontier will investigate and hopefully return your assets (they do that sometimes I believe).

 

[Jockey79]

A couple of things that I might agree would enhance this aspect.

1.) Create a banking menu, provide the option for an escrow account (even better with the option to auto-debit a percentage of your income to a configurable amount) to put away money for insurance with a little warning when your insurance exceeds your escrow. You could also put some loan options on there too for quicker pay-off.

I like this, because it isn't hand-holding, just a tool that would likely exist in any reality. It isn't fully automatic, you have to set it up and use it and you'll be in danger while you are putting away money.

2.) Since the insurance in this game isn't actually like real insurance (paying after the crash) it could be changed slightly. The insurance payment becomes a copay and insurance itself becomes embedded in the price of the ship. So if you don't have the co-pay, you don't get your ship back, but you get in credits the value minus insurance. A royal pain as you have to go buy your ship stuff up again and won't get it to the same place right away, but you aren't dead for lack of a few thousand credits.

This makes a little more sense, but takes away a lot of risk, which I think takes away some fun. But then, I'm the guy who will buy a throw-away eagle and keep it for those times my credits run low so that I'm never running in an uninsured ship. So there really isn't risk except for people like this guy who just didn't realize the consequences.

3.) Put a grace period on the insurance. Slap them in a PoS (maybe an eagle with no shields, minimal hold, one laser) as a loaner and give them a time-limit to get the money and make the insurance claim. This would provide more advantage to having multiple ships as you can take the loaner to wherever your other ship is to help you make the money.

These options provided, I don't want to see death become meaningless. I've slammed a hauler-cobra full of high-value cargo into a space station and lost a ton of credits. I didn't get caught by the insurance, but I pretty well undid an entire night of trading. It sucked when it happened, but it was my own fault for taking a lot of risk by docking at ridiculous speeds to cut down the round trip time and make more money. And I had plenty of fun getting the money back the next day. Again though, not really an insurance problem, so I'm ok with adding in some better handling of that aspect and maybe focusing on other aspects on death (maybe requiring some damages paid depending on what you run into, etc..)

I like the "Banking Menu" idea, I'd set 10% of all my earnings to go to one side for emergencies.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

I like the "Banking Menu" idea, I'd set 10% of all my earnings to go to one side for emergencies.

I do this in an excel. I have all my ship sell values, current bounty credits, cash, all ship insurance values as well as a ton of other data like rare trade routes and things. One cell that shows current cash minus highest insurance to show what I can safely spend.

Although yeah, could be an idea for certain people.

 

[talshiarr]

I've ever been in a no money for insurance situation, but I'd love to see them implement something like an "accident forgiveness" clause. If you don't lose your ship for an extended period of time...50 hours of in-game play, perhaps...then they'd waive the cost. Don't start it that way, make it an earned reward. They could balance that by increasing the cost for every death by a percentage point so that reckless players dying a lot get penalized more. Cap it at like 10-15%, and then lower it as time goes by back down to the base insurance.

 

[Roghib]

It truly sucks to lose all your progress...that being said friend..Take a week or two break...it won't seem quite so bad after some time has wore off....this certainly has to be one of the highest reasons for rage quitting...but alas it is what it is... If nothing else I guarantee in the next two weeks at least one more of these posts will appear and you will have company...again Commander...sorry for your loss.

 

[Vasious]

2.) Since the insurance in this game isn't actually like real insurance (paying after the crash) it could be changed slightly. The insurance payment becomes a copay and insurance itself becomes embedded in the price of the ship. So if you don't have the co-pay, you don't get your ship back, but you get in credits the value minus insurance. A royal pain as you have to go buy your ship stuff up again and won't get it to the same place right away, but you aren't dead for lack of a few thousand credits.

This makes a little more sense, but takes away a lot of risk, which I think takes away some fun. But then, I'm the guy who will buy a throw-away eagle and keep it for those times my credits run low so that I'm never running in an uninsured ship. So there really isn't risk except for people like this guy who just didn't realize the consequences.

You're paying the excess on ship loss, the premium is paid as part of the hull cost when you buy the ship.
The excess is just a % of the total loss as most commercial insurance is.
It would be nice to have an option to take an indemnity payment to get some of the value of the ship back if you cannot afford the full replacement cost but I would imagine that would result in the same threads as this as they would still end up in a Sidewinder and money > 1000 credits as this chap has but it is still a Sidewinder.
As to making a cash payment to the claimant and having them replace the modules, depends on the connections the insurance company has.
As it is the Pilots Federation, they are likely to have the business connection to be able to replace your ships at parts at cost plus rather than retail so will make sense for them to do that and keep the savings themselves, rather than cashing out the full retail replacement cost to the pilot and go hop to it.


The Bank idea is a good one though, as if we set it to take a % of our earning we wont notice and have a happy surprise at insurance time.

To the OP
Learn to Love the Sidewinder

 

[Angorak]

I've ever been in a no money for insurance situation, but I'd love to see them implement something like an "accident forgiveness" clause. If you don't lose your ship for an extended period of time...50 hours of in-game play, perhaps...then they'd waive the cost. Don't start it that way, make it an earned reward. They could balance that by increasing the cost for every death by a percentage point so that reckless players dying a lot get penalized more. Cap it at like 10-15%, and then lower it as time goes by back down to the base insurance.

Why should there be some sort of grace period or "accident forgiveness?. If you buy a ship and see the rebuy cost is more than your current funds then it's nobody's fault but your own if you decide to push the LAUNCH button and wind up frakking your ship up.
People who jump the gun and buy a ship and mods with full knowledge that they don't have the scratch to replace it get everything they deserve. Life is hard...life in space can be much harder and end in horrible ways.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

I think it is fair to say that FD (as well as everyone else on the forum) are pretty astonished at quite how many people manage to do this. Despite everything. So the OP will probably not be delighted to hear that they are changing the rules yet again (already done it once) to make it even harder to get yourself in this position. In 1.3, so quite soon.

 

[Darth Ender]

If you lose your ship without insurance money it should jump to a cut scene where Flo laughs hysterically at you as you seemingly attempt to file your claim, then she back hands you (this is all in first person view) and you fall backwards out of her office. She then slams the door in front of you and you cry like a little baby in front of it as people walk by you and shake their head. Then it fades to the sidewinder purchase screen.

 

[PotatoOverdose]

I don't have enough money for my insurance and the 600,000 loan are not enough, my progress of hundreds of hours is gone forever.

"All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again"

No one forced you to fly without insurance. It's the only costly mistake you can make in this game, and the only way you make that mistake is through greed or ignorance of one of the most basic mechanics of the game. If you get to a clipper without figuring out how respawn works in this game, that's on you.

 

[DangerousLarry]

One thing i'll give you: They absolutely have to give you at least one big ass warning sign as you first login where the whole screen has the simple text: "WARNING!! IF YOU DO NOT HAVE X(5% OF SHIP COST) AMOUNT OF CREDIT TO REBUY YOUR SHIP AFTER DESTRUCTION YOU WILL LOSE IT AND RECEIVE NOTHING." It's just that simple.

The other thing.... How could you play 200 hours and not realise this? How come you don't have backup ships or other ships in stock? Like serious, in a clipper and you don't have a fitted Viper/Cobra or Vulture or a freighter? You're kind of missing out in pidgeon holing yourself to one ship and at a huge disadvantage.

I've got a fully kitted Viper and a fully kitted T6 with 5million in the bank. If I lose either one I can buy them back easily. Even if I don't have the money to buy them back I could farm in either ship to work towards what I lost so it wouldn't/shouldn't be that big a deal... If you're in a clipper but have a T7 you wouldn't really be missing much(Okay you would but at least you wouldn't be back at the beginning).

So, yeah... most of this is on you but I do think they need to have one massive message when you start the game warning you of this.

 

[Skyfire]

The manual explains insurance and loans and bankruptcy.

Yeah, but that assumes people actually RTFM! Not very likely, really ....

 

[mossfoot]

This is also why I don't trade in ships when getting a new one - I save up to get a new one from scratch. I lose it and can't replace it, I still got the rest of my collection to fall back on

 

[Silent_Star]

We need a big ass warning because we are dumb and stupid?

 

[mossfoot]

We need a big ass warning because we are dumb and stupid?

Caution: coffee is hot.

 

[PsychoFish]

People who don't get this are the reason there are warnings like: "Don't put your hamster in the microwave." - "Don't use hairdryer while under the shower." or similar in this world.

 

[Beardless]

Flying without insurance should be illegal? And fined if your found to be uninsured.

Problem solved, crystal clear and no more whiners.

 

[Silent_Star]

Humanity can't do basic maths anymore, this makes me a very sad girl

 

[Minoo Minou]

The manual explains insurance and loans and bankruptcy.

However, moving forward, in addition to never flying without insurance money, you can also take the path of not selling your ship when you buy a new ship. Having your assets sunk into several ships (instead of just one that you intend to sell) does mean you'll be waiting a little longer between buying new ships, but you'll always have unassailably safe assets should disaster strike.

Plus, only a monster would callously trade in the loyal ship that routinely saved his life and built him his fortune

Words of wisdom

 

[Brieus]

This is also why I don't trade in ships when getting a new one - I save up to get a new one from scratch. I lose it and can't replace it, I still got the rest of my collection to fall back on

I've got my starter Sidewinder, a Type 6, and a mostly grade A Cobra.