Question about the multiplayer and solo online

Conjecture: As it stands I see no reason why a trader with a Panther Clipper full of luxury goods he's saved 3 weeks for even contemplate trying to run trade runs where real players can take his stuff when he can pop into a solo or private group and not have to worry. If people are honest with themselves, that's exactly what they'll do in the same scenario. Can't blame them.

I apologize if I am being dense but why do you consider playing Online solo safer than Online All Group? NPC's will be after your cargo quite more frequently than other players will as NPCs don't have anything real to lose and are programmed to do so for the sake of making the game interesting...:cool: These are not the MOBs that you are used to- they are already hunting you before you take a step in their direction
 
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It's part of the whole "self entitlement" ethos that has permeated the gaming communities in the last view years, every special snowflake requires their version of what is right. The missus and I have been on the Wildstar Beta for some time and even in a closed beta, the level of entitlement is breathtaking.

Everyone over 35 is standing and applauding....Everyone under are throwing things and cursing at their pets while foaming at the mouth and screaming, "It's not fair, it's not fair, it's NOT FAIR!!!!"
 
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I hardly think a band of pirates will be able to blockade an entire planet. Besides, the only real congregation points for refuelling will be space stations and other large-scale trading facilities that will usually have NPC protections to fight off piracy and illegal combateers.

Not to mention that if you obtain a fuel scoop, you will have the option to scoop from stars... Or you can purchase fuel from the next star system before the edge. Elite could only store enough fuel for one jump, but Frontier allowed you to carry as much fuel as your cargo hold could contain, and that was often enough for several maximum-range jumps for many ships.

There are unlikely to be any real choke-points.

Never underestimate a large group of determined and bloody minded players. My previous reference to Goonswarm was deliberate ;)

Again, I'm not saying any of this will happen, all I'm saying is if unexpected and damaging situations do arise out of abuse, then changes will be made. We'd all want that.
 
Well, there are class of players (usually teens) who seem to lack self-esteem (or have no one around them to say that's completely fine, you don't need to be extremely confident all the time. I blame parents). In result, they go online and harass people getting a temporary fake boost of it. I think no one would have problem with people just playing dirty pirtates and attacking people, still giving them fair chance to fight. But problem is this that people remember only worst things and in this case they remember all stupid griefers who have learned few exploits from Youtube videos and use them to endlessly harass people and show how "better" they are. I agree that it can heavily spoil experience. Now, I really hope that thanks to backers betas there will be little if any exploit left in the game (at least combat wise). If that so, griefers maybe will try to run down some people, but soon will give up - or will start to play properly.

The problem is that people continue to compare ED play to every other game they have played. And they base the likely-hood of being 'griefed' on those games.

Here are some things that make 'griefing' as in other games much less fun for the 'griefer':

  1. There are police in more civilized systems who will stomp you into the dirt for attacking another player OR NPC
  2. Everytime you attack a player or NPC you get a bounty placed on your head-- NPCs and players will be hunting you, now
  3. If they get the DEATH penalty right, even a moron will think very carefully before firing on anything
  4. This IS NOT any MMO or other MP game you've played before..It just doesn't work the way they do-- at all
:cool::cool::cool:
 
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There's that word again, "farm". I've seen it pop up a few times on a variety of threads and I have asked the poster to explain and never got a response, so please don't ignore this opportunity to set me, and the record, straight on the matter:

1. What exactly are they supposed to be "farming"?
2. What ever this might be, why is it assumed that it will be easier in SP than MP?
3. Which resources are you referring to?

<waits in anticipation of clarification>

Since every one is seeming ignoring you again I'll take a stab.

People believe players will build up resources in single player mode to build up their ship, weapons and credits... Then they will switch to MP and gank everyone (Remember I'm just the messenger :p )

SP will be easier than Real people becuase NPC's AI will never be as challenging as MP people opponents (Again I could care less what people do really)

They will definitely be building up their ships weapons and shields ect....

Anyway Have a nice day :)
 
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Aren't all these presumptions based on the ability to jump from single to multiplayer by pressing a button? I really don't think it'll work like that.
 
Aren't all these presumptions based on the ability to jump from single to multiplayer by pressing a button? I really don't think it'll work like that.

I believe it will be after docking, or while docked and not while out. So it won't allow you to fly to X and change when you see pirates, but when you do your flight to Riedquat with gemstones you switch to single player and then after docking and selling you switch back....
 
I apologize if I am being dense but why do you consider playing Online solo safer than Online All Group? NPC's will be after your cargo quite more frequently than other players will as NPCs don't have anything real to lose and are programmed to do so for the sake of making the game interesting...:cool: These are not the MOBs that you are used to- they are already hunting you before you take a step in their direction

I don't.

Its more to do with the physiological thing Atari mentioned earlier. Players would rather lose their stuff to an NPC than to another player. Its just human nature. Its got nothing to do with game mechanics really, more to do with player behavior.

I actually think it'll be harder in solo mode since devs have hinted at it in other posts. My concern was wanting to avoid a split playerbase of non-combat oriented playstyles (like trade) going solo to avoid combat oriented playstyles. The group mechanic opens the door to that, but like I mentioned earlier I believe FD will find the right balance once they observe players gaming habits throughout beta and gamma.
 
Never underestimate a large group of determined and bloody minded players. My previous reference to Goonswarm was deliberate ;)
Goonswarm play a game designed specifically to allow a large group of determined and bloody minded players to dominate like that though, that's the point of EvE.

Even in EvE, catching someone who knows what they're doing and doesn't want to be caught is still quite difficult. I imagine in Elite, it'll be orders of magnitude more, what with an actual working stealth system and freeform flight model... not to mention Imperial cruisers ready to stamp down on any uppity paramilitary group that gets too big for its boots.

I agree with you that some probably will try to game the system. I've stated before that I think group hopping cheapens the multilayer experience, and personally wouldn't be too sad if Frontier restricted it. I'd say the majority don't want that though, and the system as it stands does arguably have many upsides. It's not right that I impose my gameplay preferences on others... even if I do think they're being big girl's blouses about it!
 
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I don't.

Its more to do with the physiological thing Atari mentioned earlier. Players would rather lose their stuff to an NPC than to another player. Its just human nature. Its got nothing to do with game mechanics really, more to do with player behavior.

I actually think it'll be harder in solo mode since devs have hinted at it in other posts. My concern was wanting to avoid a split playerbase of non-combat oriented playstyles (like trade) going solo to avoid combat oriented playstyles. The group mechanic opens the door to that, but like I mentioned earlier I believe FD will find the right balance once they observe players gaming habits throughout beta and gamma.

In which case I agree with you. People are strange. I think (edit - I HOPE-) people will eventually realize that Online solo is just as hard and more boring and give up that route in favor of playing with others. One never knows. I do know that FD would rather split the player base than cater to play styles that run counter to their goals for the game and have said so a number of times. I gotta admire their resolve in that.
 
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Never underestimate a large group of determined and bloody minded players. My previous reference to Goonswarm was deliberate ;)

Again, I'm not saying any of this will happen, all I'm saying is if unexpected and damaging situations do arise out of abuse, then changes will be made. We'd all want that.

Granted, this is always going to be a concern, even for me, who has little intention (at least at first) of playing multiplayer at all.

One thing I also forgot to mention: The cartographical landscape of the Frontier universe is such that there can never be one star system that serves as a stopping-off point for access between inhabited worlds and uninhabited ones, or civilised and frontier worlds. There is always going to be a degree of choice on the edge of all those possibilities, and while you might be able to have a determined pirate griefer group blockade one space station, it's less likely they'll be able to do it to multiple stations in one system, to say nothing about attempting to do it across multiple stations across multiple star systems that all serve as refuelling points from one side to the other.

For example: Just taking a look at the Frontier First Encounters galaxy, I want to travel from Sol to Alioth in my Saker III Fighter. There is no one route to do so. I can jump via Tau Ceti through Eta Cassiopeia (the federal naval base at the time) and eventually to Alioth itself, or I can jump via Van Maanens, through Gateway, Soholia, and eventually to Alioth. Even in the Alioth system, there were a multitude of planets, each with many surface starports, as well as multiple orbital stations. Earth had three orbiting cities, the moon had another one, all in close proximity to each other, so there were options even then.

Even accounting for the fact that on initial release, you won't have the ability to land planetside, you'll still have a number of stations in any given system (with some exceptions such as Lave and so on).

Not to mention that ships are much harder to kill in Elite Dangerous. I remember just looking at a 1MW beam laser in an Eagle Long Range Fighter used to result in my being destroyed. It's not like that in the Alpha of E: D this time around. Sure you can be killed pretty quickly if you're unfortunate, or just plain bad at combat, but you can't be one-shot killed like you could in Frontier.

I guess the summary here is: It's going to be notoriously difficult to choke-point any route in Elite: Dangerous.

The problem is that people continue to compare ED play to every other game they have played. And they base the likely-hood of being 'griefed' on those games.

Here are some things that make 'griefing' as in other games much less fun for the 'griefer':

  1. There are police in more civilized systems who will stomp you into the dirt for attacking another player OR NPC
  2. Everytime you attack a player or NPC you get a bounty placed on your head-- NPCs and players will be hunting you, now
  3. If they get the DEATH penalty right, even a moron will think very carefully before firing on anything
  4. This IS NOT any MMO or other MP game you've played before..It just doesn't work the way they do-- at all
:cool::cool::cool:

I think that's it, really. NPC's in the original games weren't exactly sophisticated, but they weren't exactly easy to beat either. MMO's tend to have AI based enemies as cannon fodder... A means to allow players to "farm" to gain levels. Elite has always been about challenge, and having meat for the grinder defeats this purpose. There was never an element of farming in these games.

I never liked coming across pirates in Frontier or FFE, especially in the early part of the game when I had a weak-as-tinfoil ship like an Eagle, and they were a drag even when fighting in an Imperial Courier or an Asp Explorer equipped with shield generators, but they're part of the game, and are by no means "farm material".
 
This is only a question so don't jump down my throat...

So what about the item/ships/mineral prices between SP and MP?

Can I go to my SP game buy super cheap steel then go to a MP game and sell it at an inflated price and just keep repeating this for any items I like ? Thus not needing to do trading in MP and only using it as a place my pew pew ?

Thanks :)
 
In which case I agree with you. People are strange. I think (edit - I HOPE-) people will eventually realize that Online solo is just as hard and more boring and give up that route in favor of playing with others. One never knows. I do know that FD would rather split the player base than cater to play styles that run counter to their goals for the game and have said so a number of times. I gotta admire their resolve in that.

I'd bet there are patterns to NPC AI and I bet that people work them out. When that happens they will make strategies to beat the AI and then farming will commence.

Look at the vids people have posted from Alpha (I know they will plug the exploits) so far. People have finished the entire run of missions in less than a day - they will farm credits and kit out their ships offline where the progress is more predictable.
 
In which case I agree with you. People are strange. I think people will eventually realize that Online solo is just as hard and more boring and give up that route in favor of playing with others. One never knows. I do know that FD would rather split the player base than cater to play styles that run counter to their goals for the game and have said so a number of times. I gotta admire their resolve in that.

I think a lot of people have been scarred by their experiences in other online games so are naturally cautious when it comes to multiplayer Elite. There a loads of posts on these forums with people categorically stating they'll never play in a gameworld with other people. I find that sad but fully understand where they're coming from.

Personally I've never been into PvP in the games I played in the past but understood that its the uncertainty of being among other real players that gives an edge to a game - something I just can't get in single player mode no matter how tough the NPC's are.

The solo-trader thing doesn't really effect me truth be told as I plan to be an explorer in ED, in the All group. And I would hate to be in an All group that is massively populated by pirates and bounty hunters. I'd want to see prospectors, travelers, fellow explorers, adventurers, and traders on my journeys too - real people you can converse with. So hopefully these untested game mechanics FD are piloting will give everyone what they want to some extent.
 
This is only a question so don't jump down my throat...

So what about the item/ships/mineral prices between SP and MP?

Can I go to my SP game buy super cheap steel then go to a MP game and sell it at an inflated price and just keep repeating this for any items I like ? Thus not needing to do trading in MP and only using it as a place my pew pew ?

Thanks :)

No, it will be the same price (because Online Solo) or it will be offline completely and can't be switched over.
 
This is only a question so don't jump down my throat...

So what about the item/ships/mineral prices between SP and MP?

Can I go to my SP game buy super cheap steel then go to a MP game and sell it at an inflated price and just keep repeating this for any items I like ? Thus not needing to do trading in MP and only using it as a place my pew pew ?

Thanks :)

No. They are not separate worlds. The solo game you're in is identical to the all group. All the mechanic does is make it so a solo player can't be instanced with real players. All his encounters will be NPCs.

That's it in a nutshell.

We all play in the same galaxy.
 
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