No money for insurance -> basically delete your game

[TriumphANT]

I get my insurance notifications by opening screen 4, I get fuel level info from looking the gauge, and I get bounty info by knowing what I've done in game and the transactions screen, anything along these lines would be really irritating (IMO) and would have to be an optional thing : Also anybody likely to fly without rebuy would probably turn the warning off, so it would be a waste of dev time.

Heh, probably not QUITE like that! Notifications don't have to be very intrusive, but they are important. I was only giving examples, but I'd love to see the game feeding the pilot much more information about what's happening in real time in a centralised, consistent way to do with ALL updates and warnings. Clever notifications design is something that Volition Inc., Microsoft Gaming Studios and especially Firaxis have done immensely well. ED is at the end of the day a simulation rather than "just a game", so that has to be taken into account, but we already have a ship computer that notifies us of stuff, so why not hone that so that it's clever and consistent, rather than stuff overlaid in the wrong bits of the screen, or hidden in different panels? Sure, have toggles for things. I'd love for the Landing Gear warning to be disabled, as I usually deploy the landing gear around about the time the message is triggered. Oh, and THAT's broken too. You get three separate notifications about the Landing Gear deployment, and only one of them (voice) tells you when it's actually safe to land. Simple, clever and consistent really is missing...

 

[OillyRag]

Hi,

Instant death.

And now I have to start over with the ing Sidewinder and the bit credits I got left _again_ to grind 200 hours _a_g_a_i_n_?!

I do like to see the daily insurance thread.
The world turns, the alarm goes off, oh look the daily insurance thread, all's well with the world

 

[TriumphANT]

Oh, I didn't realise I'd gone so far off topic. Sorry... I agree with the posts mid-thread that having some proportional rebuy/refund if you cannot afford the excess would be more realistic. For example, I'm flying a 16MCr Vulture and I only have 150,000Cr in the bank. I crash'n'burn, and the rebuy is 800,000Cr. Ooops. I only have 150KCr + 600KCr loan. So the insurance company won't give me a new ship, but they'll dump me in a Sidewinder with 40% of my ship cost as a "salvage remuneration" I've got my original 150,000Cr plus about 6.4MCr in salvage costs.

It would also be trivial for ED to add in a no claims and "frequent claims" system to encourage safer flying. Let's say the rebuy starts at 5%. If you go for one week or 16 hours of flight time (whatever's shorter) without incident it drops by 0.5% down to a maximum of 2.5%. If you make a claim it increases by 1% each time up to a maximum of 10%, and a minimum of 5%.
So I fly for two weeks safely and crash. My rebuy is 4%, and my no claims is reset to 5%. I crash a couple of days later and pay 5% rebuy, and my next claim will be 6%. 3 weeks after that, it's down to 4.5%. And so on.

Simple algorithms like this are the backbone of both real life systems and other games. Doing the same with the criminal system (scoring every crime, adding 'em up, setting a rating from "Mostly Clean" up to "Dangerous Fugitive" based on this, and having "cooldown" periods and ways of reducing the crime score with missions or payments) would give us something much beefier than "OMG, FF, 200Cr bounty".

 

[Stigbob]

Heh, probably not QUITE like that! Notifications don't have to be very intrusive, but they are important. I was only giving examples, but I'd love to see the game feeding the pilot much more information about what's happening in real time in a centralised, consistent way to do with ALL updates and warnings. Clever notifications design is something that Volition Inc., Microsoft Gaming Studios and especially Firaxis have done immensely well. ED is at the end of the day a simulation rather than "just a game", so that has to be taken into account, but we already have a ship computer that notifies us of stuff, so why not hone that so that it's clever and consistent, rather than stuff overlaid in the wrong bits of the screen, or hidden in different panels? Sure, have toggles for things. I'd love for the Landing Gear warning to be disabled, as I usually deploy the landing gear around about the time the message is triggered. Oh, and THAT's broken too. You get three separate notifications about the Landing Gear deployment, and only one of them (voice) tells you when it's actually safe to land. Simple, clever and consistent really is missing...

That makes sense, I'd quite like an indicator light that shows me exactly when my weapons are fully retracted to assist in running away more efficiently. We already have the option to disable specific voice warnings in options so it should be simple to add extra's for pretty much anything (he says with no coding/dev knowledge whatsoever).

The biggest issue I can see with it is people turning it off (which I would do) and round and round we go.

 

[Axelsson]

Oh, I didn't realise I'd gone so far off topic. Sorry... I agree with the posts mid-thread that having some proportional rebuy/refund if you cannot afford the excess would be more realistic. For example, I'm flying a 16MCr Vulture and I only have 150,000Cr in the bank. I crash'n'burn, and the rebuy is 800,000Cr. Ooops. I only have 150KCr + 600KCr loan. So the insurance company won't give me a new ship, but they'll dump me in a Sidewinder with 40% of my ship cost as a "salvage remuneration" I've got my original 150,000Cr plus about 6.4MCr in salvage costs.

It would also be trivial for ED to add in a no claims and "frequent claims" system to encourage safer flying. Let's say the rebuy starts at 5%. If you go for one week or 16 hours of flight time (whatever's shorter) without incident it drops by 0.5% down to a maximum of 2.5%. If you make a claim it increases by 1% each time up to a maximum of 10%, and a minimum of 5%.
So I fly for two weeks safely and crash. My rebuy is 4%, and my no claims is reset to 5%. I crash a couple of days later and pay 5% rebuy, and my next claim will be 6%. 3 weeks after that, it's down to 4.5%. And so on.

Simple algorithms like this are the backbone of both real life systems and other games. Doing the same with the criminal system (scoring every crime, adding 'em up, setting a rating from "Mostly Clean" up to "Dangerous Fugitive" based on this, and having "cooldown" periods and ways of reducing the crime score with missions or payments) would give us something much beefier than "OMG, FF, 200Cr bounty".

This I like. Would really like it that we always just got a lump of money thou. Paying 5% and get a clone of your ship is way to easy and does not encourage safe flying. I also think there should be a max number of claims per period. No insurance company in the world would accept your business after 20 crashed ships in one week.

 

[LKx]

Hi,

Even though I'm mildy mad, I'll try to explain the point (I'm sure this is posted every week, at least).
To start from the beginning:
Actually I do like and love hardcore games, I do like games that make me think, that make me want to get better, that have a very steep learning curve.
I don't have a problem with dying, or dying often, or dying every damn time in a damn game, till you learn how to develop yourself.
But what the actual is this? Never did the game explain to me, that if I don't have enough money for my insurance and the 600,000 loan are not enough, my progress of hundreds of hours is gone forever.
Details might bore you, but in 200 hours and 30.000.000 credits later, it was the first time ever I got into this situation. In this ressource point with these many asteroids, I got a lag and my Clipper crashed into the big damn stone.
Instant death.
And now I have to start over with the ing Sidewinder and the bit credits I got left _again_ to grind 200 hours _a_g_a_i_n_?!
Isn't there any better solution for this?
Frontier, don't you got any alternative, instead of basically deleting everything the player has ever achieved?
Couldn't there be a hardcore mode or at least a big damn warning sign at the beginning?

... and there are who are bored beacuse the game is too carebear!!! ;P

(btw, never invest everything in one ship and fly it without insurance... i'll always keep my kitted cobra somewhere... just in case...)

 

[ninja]

i keep saying this .... no insurance ... don't fly ....

 

[clinton]

As the manual says insurance is pre-paid. It's the excess you have to pay on ship destruction.

This is exactly like all real life insurance. car insurance has for example a £200 excess. The only difference is in real life you have time to pay the excess it does not have to be paid at the moment you make the claim.

Exactly. In real life you can pay the excess by selling the car. The same should happen in Elite Dangerous. If you're short the excess is paid by selling the ship. You get what's left over put in your bank account. You'll be back with a Sidewinder but at least you'll have some money in the bank.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

No insurance company in the world would accept your business after 20 crashed ships in one week.

I totally agree with this, however I would also add however that when fighting for the military we should at least have the option of taking one of their (generally lower specced - possibly linked to faction standing) ships into combat.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Exactly. In real life you can pay the excess by selling the car. The same should happen in Elite Dangerous. If you're short the excess is paid by selling the ship. You get what's left over put in your bank account. You'll be back with a Sidewinder but at least you'll have some money in the bank.

Your ship exploded. In space. What exactly do you think you're gonna get for it?

 

[SteveLaw]

Your ship exploded. In space. What exactly do you think you're gonna get for it?

It's a pretty good point.

 

[ToniB]

Again you're missing the part where real life insurance requires us to pay a regular premium.

the insurance is paid with buying the ship already. people dont get it: you already ONLY PAY 5% OF THE SHIP VALUE!!!! Rest is covered by INSURANCE ALREADY.

5% !!! how much more carebear can this game get? oh ... with 1.3 you will get enough loan to crash your ship dozen times on purpose prbly... (other then purposly destroying your ship you cant get killed in elite anyway...)

 

[dayrth]

I would agree if 95% of deaths weren't bug/lag related...

95% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

 

[SteveLaw]

95% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Source?

 

[dayrth]

...unless you are activity trying to die or you blatantly don't care about dying it is insanely hard to die...

I tend to take risks, it can be fun, (not with docking though Insomia ). Consequently I get blasted to bits now and then. I have taken risks without insurance and paid the price. I knew what those risks were before I took them. Not knowing, (when it's in the manual, all over the forums, CLEARLY displayed in your cockpit as you play) seems to me to be your fault, not the games.

Dying often or even loosing your ship is not a problem. Moaning about it afterwards is the problem.

 

[Thasarion]

i keep saying this .... no insurance ... don't fly ....

Unless you have a good spare ship you can use to get cash fast. I would be OK losing my 20,000,000 vulture because I have a T-7 and a very good trade route, so I could get it back and equipped much faster than if I had to restart completely.

 

[Krow]

An expensive error indeed, but luckily a mistake you only make once.
You played that long and did not wonder what the Rebuy insurance cost was about? Or at least what happens when you die?

Walk it off and suit up Commander.

Hope to see you back in there soon.

 

[Kalisperas]

I feel for the OP. While I agree that dying in an MMO-style game should have some consequence, I've never seen another game where the potential penalty is even remotely on par with ED. The time commitment involved in acquiring the bigger ships really is on par (if not greater) than level-capping a character in most MMOs, and I can't imagine anyone being OK with having their level 100 WoW character respawn at level 1 after dying in a raid, just because they didn't have enough gold to cover repairs. Sure, your rep is still intact, but no more playing with your friends until you replay hundreds of hours of leveling and gearing up!

On another note, heavy death penalties strike me as counterintuitive in a game which heavily features combat and encourages risk-taking and PvP. In a big ship, even if you have the re-buy money, a single death could set you back hours of gameplay. I have yet to die without re-buy money, but if I ever did, I'd pretty much never take a risk again, assuming I even bothered to ever launch the game again. Is it really better to encourage players away from risks in a video game?

 

[puca]

Except the penalty is very light, 5% of total cost, you just need a money cushion. I teach undergrads at a university, and these constant complaints about insurance remind me of my students complaining that they didn't know what date the test was, and how very unfair it is that they missed the test, even though the date is clearly spelled out in the syllabus.

Maybe ED is good preparation for university . Read your syllabus.

 

[Arithon]

"It hurts when I slap myself in the face"

You know the answer.

You knew the possible outcome if you ignored the requirement of keeping back your rebuy cost and did it anyway. "I got away with it last time" doesn't make this time, or the next time a dead certainty. You gambled and lost. The game holds no responsibility for you ignoring the warnings. Adding more "signs" i.e. more warnings for you to see and also ignore would achieve nothing. You have only yourself to blame.

Learn the lesson. Start again. Second time up the ladder is faster and you'll be back in a Clipper in no time. Just keep an eye on the rebuy from now on.

The only time to fly uninsured is in the free SideWinder (which is also free to replace). That's where most players learned the first lesson of rebuy. It's also useful to keep on hand for Demolition Derby!