No money for insurance -> basically delete your game

[Stigbob]

If you wanna buy cobra - you need novice in fight. You cant buy it without ~2-4 hours of combat.
If you wanna buy ASP - you need scout and novice.
If you wanna buy Anaconda - you need master, brooker and traiblazer.
It will stop "mostly harmless" condas, and situation like this one.

No don't change it killing mostly harmless pilots who are piloting really big ships is a fun part of the game, especially if you are in a much smaller ship.

When I first got a viper a mostly harmless CMDR in a python tried to kill me (unprovoked), when his alpha strike failed he had absolutely no idea what to do he spent his time sending abusive messages when he could have jumped really easily. Handing him his rebuy was my favorite game moment so far, and that's saying something because I really enjoy the game,

 

[deMangler]

Hi,

Even though I'm mildy mad, I'll try to explain the point (I'm sure this is posted every week, at least).
To start from the beginning:
Actually I do like and love hardcore games, I do like games that make me think, that make me want to get better, that have a very steep learning curve.
I don't have a problem with dying, or dying often, or dying every damn time in a damn game, till you learn how to develop yourself.
But what the actual is this? Never did the game explain to me, that if I don't have enough money for my insurance and the 600,000 loan are not enough, my progress of hundreds of hours is gone forever.
Details might bore you, but in 200 hours and 30.000.000 credits later, it was the first time ever I got into this situation. In this ressource point with these many asteroids, I got a lag and my Clipper crashed into the big damn stone.
Instant death.
And now I have to start over with the Sidewinder and the bit credits I got left _again_ to grind 200 hours _a_g_a_i_n_?!
Isn't there any better solution for this?
Frontier, don't you got any alternative, instead of basically deleting everything the player has ever achieved?
Couldn't there be a hardcore mode or at least a big damn warning sign at the beginning?

you are correct. at the moment there is no hardcore mode. basically you cannot die or lose your progress. the worst that can happen is that you run out of money. The only way to start again is to clear your save. There is a mode planned where you can die but it isn't happening soon apparently

 

[SteveLaw]

Insurance excess should come out of the sale price of the insured ship with the remainder returned in cash.

There is no sale price because there is no ship. It blew up, remember?

 

[Lann]

If you wanna buy cobra - you need novice in fight. You cant buy it without ~2-4 hours of combat.
If you wanna buy ASP - you need scout and novice.
If you wanna buy Anaconda - you need master, brooker and traiblazer.
It will stop "mostly harmless" condas, and situation like this one.

What is your problem with that? Let people play their own way.

I cant understand some of you who want force people to play a certain way...

 

[Gremlin]

What is your problem with that? Let people play their own way.

I cant understand some of you who want force people to play a certain way...

The "problem" with insurance and coverage is that even if you are covered - once - what happens the next time you're trying to earn the coverage the second/third time?

I was careless - crashed my fully loaded A class ASP into the side of a space station while carrying 90+ tones or rares.. (I was a bit cross) .. No problem, I was covered..
but for the next few hours I was kakking myself worrying that a single landing oopsy through the slot and I would be completely boned.

It takes a god-awfully long time to re-earn a 5M insurance cover.. the credit earning potential isn't scaling with ship costs at all.

This insurance thing is a pain in the bum, and takes all the joy out of flying.

I can only imagine the sweating involved in the rebuy of a tooled anaconda.

 

[ToniB]

but for the next few hours I was kakking myself worrying that a single landing oopsy through the slot and I would be completely boned.

actually i think it should be that way ALWAYS and from the very beginning.

Hope IronManMode comes sometime...

 

[mossfoot]

The "problem" with insurance and coverage is that even if you are covered - once - what happens the next time you're trying to earn the coverage the second/third time?

I was careless - crashed my fully loaded A class ASP into the side of a space station while carrying 90+ tones or rares.. (I was a bit cross) .. No problem, I was covered..
but for the next few hours I was kakking myself worrying that a single landing oopsy through the slot and I would be completely boned.

It takes a god-awfully long time to re-earn a 5M insurance cover.. the credit earning potential isn't scaling with ship costs at all.

This insurance thing is a pain in the bum, and takes all the joy out of flying.

I can only imagine the sweating involved in the rebuy of a tooled anaconda.

Funny how you're talking about one of the things about ED that I love. Take that away and you kill what little sense of risk the game already has. Hell, I even have to up the stakes with a self-imposed variation of Iron Man (see link below) just to help get that sweating and kakking you're trying to avoid.

Much of Elite is, let's face it, tension free. If you're exploring, or fighting normal NPCs, or trading, most of the time you're not in white knuckles situations. So for me, the sense of actually running the risk of serious consequences on those rare moments where a PC attacks me, or I am facing a superior NPC force I thought I was equipped for but wasn't... or getting lazy with my docking and putting every last ounce of effort into avoiding becoming wall pizza on the outer hull - those are the moments of fear and tension that make it all worthwhile.

 

[Chummy62]

You will not find much sympathy in the fourms. Unlike the streets in your neighborhood, this version of space is more like being just off the coast of Somolia. So much for civilization advancing. P.S. Watch out for Pirates as well. This game is every pilot for themselves.

 

[Stigbob]

You will not find much sympothy in the fourms. Unlike the streets in your neighborhood, this version of space is more like being just off the coast of Somolia. So much for civilization advancing. P.S. Watch out for Pirates as well. This game is every pilot for themselves.

The clue is in the name.

 

[Taimaru]

I really don't understand it. Insurance re-buy is one of the simplest game mechanics in ED. For some reason people are able to work out things like power management (available power must be more or equal to power usage) and yet the simple mechanic of "available credits must be more than the re-buy amount" if you want to keep you ship when you die somehow eludes people.

Ok, so some people don't read the manual (which talks about insurance re-buy), but aren't people curious about what all the screens and panels do in the ship? The first thing I did when I got into the cockpit for the first time was to look at each panel, the galaxy map, and the system map curious about what it all meant and how I would use it all.

The power management panel scared me at first whereas the first panel on the right which showed available credit and re-buy amount was straightforward and understandable. Ok, don't let my available credit amount go lower than the re-buy amount... got that!

And yet people want some convoluted insurance game mechanic to replace that? Strange...

It's a wonder we don't get threads like "No-one told me my ship would be destroyed if I selected the Self Destruct option %&$*!"

Think yourself lucky you get a manual. When I bought ED in beta it didn't come with a manual.

 

[Szyslak22]

The "problem" with insurance and coverage is that even if you are covered - once - what happens the next time you're trying to earn the coverage the second/third time?

If you're only flying with 1X re-buy, then you should be prepared to downgrade your ship until you have the insurance covered again. That might mean dropping down to the next smaller ship, but it's better than starting over.
That's also the basis for the argument that you should keep two ships. Strip one down and use the other one to earn enough money to get back on your feet. There is always a practical way to handle a known game mechanic. It just might not be what you want to do.

 

[Fyrd Judge]

Long time ago in a beta Galaxy far, far away many a young commanders experienced the same wreckless decisions. Most of them can only reminisce of those good old days where others would laugh at your misfortunes, but it was a lesson we all quickly learnt, "Pay the insurance".

 

[CMDR Beltane]

<snip>I can only imagine the sweating involved in the rebuy of a tooled anaconda.

Uhm.. right tool for the right job. Sure... in case you use a whole A rated Conda just cause u can for trade, it will take its time. But then again... why do you need a fully A rated Conda? My trade Conda e.g is arround 13 Mil rebuy, makes arround 20 in total if it was filled with palladium or slaves. Takes arround 3 - 4 hours to compensate the loss. Though i can see why you use an ASP, maybe you want at least to throw out the real expensive stuff that is not needed for the job you took it. Or, u take a T6 for trade stuff and a Vulture for combat, both with a way lower rebuy cost at similar or even better efficiency. Or... you do neither of the three and deal with the rebuy of 5 Million. Besides, to avoid a situation like yours i always recommend to have double rebuy + cargo in funds, just in case.

In the end, and though i am sorry for your loss - who is to blame? The Game (Insurance) or you grounding your, at least for this job, overequipped ASP to space dust over a simple failure that can happen to the best of us?

 

[Sapient6]

I really don't understand it. Insurance re-buy is one of the simplest game mechanics in ED. For some reason people are able to work out things like power management (available power must be more or equal to power usage) and yet the simple mechanic of "available credits must be more than the re-buy amount" if you want to keep you ship when you die somehow eludes people.

Ok, so some people don't read the manual (which talks about insurance re-buy), but aren't people curious about what all the screens and panels do in the ship? The first thing I did when I got into the cockpit for the first time was to look at each panel, the galaxy map, and the system map curious about what it all meant and how I would use it all.

I suspect it's a combination of not reading the manual and not reading the forums (I say "suspect" because I have not read the manual, so I have no idea how clear it is on this topic). If your first experience with losing your ship without the rebuy funds on hand happens while you are flying a cheap ship, then your experience will go something like this:

1. PANIC: have I just lost everything?
2. RELIEF: Oh, I can just get a loan to cover the cost!
3. HASTE AND INATTENTION: due to the panic above a newer player is likely to only skim the the information being presented on the rebuy sheet and click through as quickly as possible to get their ship back.

The end result of that experience is a player that now mistakenly believes there will always be a Loan available as a safety net should they recklessly space themselves without the rebuy credits on hand.

Which brings them here for the first time.

In my opinion the first time a pilot tries to launch without rebuy funds, in a ship where their current balance and max loan amount will not cover rebuy, a warning should come on screen that requires a long-held key to dismiss:

HEY :
If you destroy this ship at your current credit balance YOU WILL LOSE THIS SHIP. I hope you like Sidewinders.

 

[PrometheusDarko]

There are games with short tutorials at the beginning that teach you how to walk, how to attack, how to heal, how to save, and how to progress. Then, as you gain powers, it teaches you how to use those powers. Then it teaches you how to use those powers in new and interesting ways. Then it will guide you to a final boss to finish where you win over the princess, kill the dragon, and save the day as the hero.

Then there's Elite. Elite uses the tried and true method that's crafted both the apex predators and the dodos. It throws you into the world with just enough to get started and says: Survive.

You failed to survive. However! Unlike in real life, you get to learn from this fatal mistake. You get to get up, brush yourself off, keep all your reputation, your ranks, and your stats, and try again. I've done this. I've bought a brand new ship, with just enough credits to get a basic combat fit, then waded into battle knowing full well, one wrong turn, one boosting anaconda blocking my way, one stray plasma shot to the canopy and it was all over. It's a risk. And one I was willing to take. You too chose to take this risk, without realizing it. Such is evolution.

Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and prove you can learn from your mistakes. Be a better pilot for your troubles, and don't make that mistake again. The first rule of spaceships: Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. The second rule of spaceships: If you fly it, it's already lost. The third rule of spaceships: Make the other pilots lose their ship before you lose yours.

 

[p.opus]

If anything, I think the insurance is one of the things that take me out of the game the most because it makes no economic sense.

Why would a any pilots guild,
A. Gift you a ship with 1000 CR
B. Pay for 95% of your replacement cost of any ship you plaster against a space station, asteroid, or melt away under an vastly superior opponents guns.
C. Give you an interest free loan of up to 600,000 CR to buy back a ship which equates to a total ship value of 18 Million Dollars.
D. Require you to pay no premium whatsoever.

I do appreciate, however, it's simplicity and I ensure that I have no less than 3 times buyback value whenever I upgrade to a new ship or upgrade the equipment on my existing ship.

Just because you "can" buy a factory outfitted anaconda by selling everything you have, doesn't mean you should.

 

[CravenTHC]

If anything, I think the insurance is one of the things that take me out of the game the most because it makes no economic sense.

Why would a any pilots guild,
A. Gift you a ship with 1000 CR
B. Pay for 95% of your replacement cost of any ship you plaster against a space station, asteroid, or melt away under an vastly superior opponents guns.
C. Give you an interest free loan of up to 600,000 CR to buy back a ship which equates to a total ship value of 18 Million Dollars.
D. Require you to pay no premium whatsoever.

I do appreciate, however, it's simplicity and I ensure that I have no less than 3 times buyback value whenever I upgrade to a new ship or upgrade the equipment on my existing ship.

Just because you "can" buy a factory outfitted anaconda by selling everything you have, doesn't mean you should.

A. To increase their membership. Kinda like a bank that gives away a fake plant to new account holders.
B. They don't. It's already been stated that YOU pay for your insurance ahead of time when you purchase the ship. It is considered part of the stock cost.
C. Because member retention is important to them.
D. This one I agree with. You would think they need to make money too. Maybe there is another way they make money like some kind of standing deal with stations, or advertising profits.

There is one very important thing that I don't understand about insurance in this game though...

In the real world, if your car is totaled and you don't have the full amount to cover the cost of a brand new replacement vehicle then the insurance payout is given directly to you in the form of a check. Who gets that payout for your totaled ship? Maybe you do, I wouldn't know since I never fly without re-buy cost. It seems to me that if you sunk untold millions of credits into a ship that you should get that 95% payout in the form of credits if you can't quite afford to repurchase the brand new ship.

 

[CMDR Starschulz]

What happens when you drive without insurance in real life? your getting off lucky.

 

[sensai25]

Rule Humber #1 NEVER EVER FLY WITHOUT INSURANCE. Period

This is the only rule to know.



In diablo3 hardcore mode you die even with a lag you loose everything.
In Elite Dangerous : you have insurance mecanism to protect you. So be covered don't be impatient to buy new ships. Buy them but with enough credits to rebuy and have a full cargo buying capacity. => Clipper at 42m is safe.

 

[clinton]

In the real world, if your car is totaled and you don't have the full amount to cover the cost of a brand new replacement vehicle then the insurance payout is given directly to you in the form of a check.

Exactly. The excess is taken out of the cheque. Although in ED, I think the cheque should be the sale price, not the buy price of the ship, so crashing is not an exploit for avoiding a loss on sale. But this is the appropriate approach that the Devs should implement.