Opinion: Why Pirating pay may not need buffed.

[Han Brannigan]

This might be in the very distant future - but is it not one ogf FDs goals to make ships boardable? If so - imagine the profits from not just selling the cargo but the whole ship.
Edit: Morbord has beaten me to the spot I see.

But I do not think it has to be that complicated ( although I love his trick idea ). Take out the Engines. Board ship repair Engines ( remember: it also seems to be one of FDs goals to make ships repairable from the outside ).

 

[Farmboy]

Piracy against NPCs needs to work better - in terms of profit yes, but also in terms of being able to fulfil missions given by criminal factions. Go find 15 tons of stolen performance enhancers type missions just don't appeal to me. Go steal 15 tons of goods from <xxx> faction ships _whatever they are_ would work better. Or named piracy targets - a bit more like assassinations - where you have to find a specific target and steal cargo from them without killing them. If there are specific targets, their AI can be tweaked to be less suicidal than most NPC traders, and to actually jettison cargo in the right circumstances rather than just die uselessly.

I also agree that NPCs we can find and pirate should be more likely to be carrying goods in high demand and of high value in system. Yes the low-value high demand goods should also be being shipped, but I'm happy for that to happen in the background where I don't see it - gameplay over simulation accuracy for me in this case.

I can't play in Open - I shouldn't need to to be able to be a pirate though.

 

[Beardless]

I like the idea that you can join the pirate factions, increased payouts from high disp pirate factions when selling stolen goods, but modules should always be available to everyone, pirate or not, may be though certain modules can only be bought from certain factions if your disposition is high enough, however if pirates are going to have specialty modules like that there needs to be some for balance from the government factions. I don't think they should be something like access to all the normal modules but they behave differently, they should be specialty modules.

I did previously have this discussed on another thread, I played a game years ago called EV Nova and you had to buy licenses to carry different types of weapons, and certain licenses you couldn't buy without enough +rep/rank

It was an awesome system, and you earned access to certain modules / weapon types including "exotics" like alien weaponry.
ED could of gone to town on this and it would be epic but we only have very limited choice available and no specific military/exotic/faction modules that you earn the right to use. That would add content and progression and make you really feel part of the empire/federation, carrying those licenses.

And who lets civilians buy plasma accelerators?

 

[Beardless]

Unfortunately what we have is a very much a cold and uninspired system that doesn't add value or progression other than monetary to access better gear.

 

[Agarthan]

And who lets civilians buy plasma accelerators?

A free society. A free galaxy.

 

[Quineloe]

Unfortunately what we have is a very much a cold and uninspired system that doesn't add value or progression other than monetary to access better gear.

1.3 will give us the rep grind, as fondly remembered all the way back to EverQuest, Scars of Velious (12/2000)

seriously, we need a way to spend money that isn't related to ships and ship rebuy.

 

[Demiga]

Great post! Repped for sure.

As far as a buff to pirates though, with the PowerPlay coming into effect, I think there might be an "easy" solution for the buff. Looking at the problem, you cant just have a pirate steal goods and the value of those goods automatically go up from original. That would never make sense.

What about having the Pirate "Powers" - based out of dictatorship and Anarchy systems. The pirates will then sell their stolen goods at a black market within the power's influence. They will get the black market value (not much, I know) But they could then be paid extra for "Increasing the reputation/terror of [insert power name here]" - This would give them the money for the item, the rep for their power, and the money they are paid by the "organization." If they do it right, this could be the buff pirates/smugglers need right now.

I wonder if FDEV will implement a pirate power like that. I dont pirate at all, havent tried it yet, but I will someday! I would like to see (real) pirates get their own niche and bonuses as well as everyone else. Hopefully the powers take that into effect.

 

[Agarthan]

1.3 will give us the rep grind, as fondly remembered all the way back to EverQuest, Scars of Velious (12/2000)

seriously, we need a way to spend money that isn't related to ships and ship rebuy.

I was hoping we could build stations, set up our own mining or various operations depending on where you set up, hire merc wingman, may be buy a politican or two.

 

[Mephane]

1.3 will give us the rep grind, as fondly remembered all the way back to EverQuest, Scars of Velious (12/2000)

seriously, we need a way to spend money that isn't related to ships and ship rebuy.

Well, I believe the people who are sitting on piles of cash without anything to spend on are probably just a small minority. Most players are still saving up for, like, an Asp. Do not underestimate this, it has been in every MMO and MMO-ish game so far, whenever the devs collect real statistics about player wealth, it ends up as a bell curve with its peak near the lower end. And the forums always give a skewed picture because most of the active forum posters are also among the most active players, and therefore the biggest wealth. If you make a poll what someone's most expensive ship is, you may cut down the percentages on anything bigger than an Asp by a factor of 10, probably, to get a realistic estimate for the overall playerbase.

Therefore, no, I don't think we need any more money sinks.

 

[Jaeger]

Not everyone is a bounty hunter.

Yes they are, anyone can/must at some stage collect bounties or trade for that matter to progress. Not everyone is a morally bereft PvP pirate is the more accurate statement.

 

[TruffleSnout]

I would like to see the concept of privateering, where as an Upstanding Member of the Alliance I can pirate the stuffing out of a FedRat, and fly proudly into an Alliance station with the police saluting me on the way in.

 

[DeathFish]

Oh the possibilities are endless with a system like that in place.
Pirate outposts similar to the high tech systems sought after by blue collar traders.
harpoons
nav blockers that would place an escape vector before you could jump out into supercruise instead of just jumping to another system.
mass inhibitors
smuggler racks that would have a chance to block incoming cargo scans at the cost of cargo space.
manifest erasers turning stolen cargo into abandoned cargo.
stealth drives that would lower your supercruise signature at the cost of jump range.
a whole new game opens up after that.

What a great bunch of suggestions! Rep and all.

One way to make piracy more exciting would be to make sure that some of the "piracy" upgrades only available on smaller ship types, thereby creating a situation where using the top end ships to pirate would become far less attractive and levelling the playing field, so that there could be some really touch and go chases between traders and pirates where pure skill would play a large part.

It would also be fun to have an option to dump goods one ton at a time, thereby leaving the pirate with a tough choice between stopping and picking up the goodies floating in space, or gambling on pulling the ship he/she was chasing up (-:

And what about including the odd booby-trapped container? Scoop one of those and pow!

(-:

 

[Derath]

Well, I believe the people who are sitting on piles of cash without anything to spend on are probably just a small minority. Most players are still saving up for, like, an Asp. Do not underestimate this, it has been in every MMO and MMO-ish game so far, whenever the devs collect real statistics about player wealth, it ends up as a bell curve with its peak near the lower end. And the forums always give a skewed picture because most of the active forum posters are also among the most active players, and therefore the biggest wealth. If you make a poll what someone's most expensive ship is, you may cut down the percentages on anything bigger than an Asp by a factor of 10, probably, to get a realistic estimate for the overall playerbase.

Therefore, no, I don't think we need any more money sinks.

You say that but having increased things for the top to do doesn't detract from the bottom, and in its current incarnation everyone moves towards having too much money, it just depends if they are doing it fast or slowly. People who are happy selling tea to one day finally achieve an asp will still be able to do that with the addition of some more things to do with credits. I can't help but think they made this worse though by removing all the expenses other than insurance and increasing cash flow drastically its a bit short termist but if thats what people want w/e

 

[Demiga]

Oh the possibilities are endless with a system like that in place.
Pirate outposts similar to the high tech systems sought after by blue collar traders.
harpoons
nav blockers that would place an escape vector before you could jump out into supercruise instead of just jumping to another system.
mass inhibitors
smuggler racks that would have a chance to block incoming cargo scans at the cost of cargo space.
manifest erasers turning stolen cargo into abandoned cargo.
stealth drives that would lower your supercruise signature at the cost of jump range.
a whole new game opens up after that.

I love the idea's you have posted here. Repped.

Honestly, Cash sinks one and all, they all have a common theme. Whether or not people think that a certain "cash sink" is a good idea doesnt matter.

What we need is Options. Options for versatility. Options for creativity. Options for Uniqueness.

I believe that they are moving in the right direction by adding weapons/modules specific to certain powers. I want to see another player and wonder (sometimes in fear) as to what power he is associated with. I want to wonder if this CMDR has an affiliation with a faction that provides a module/weapon that will help/hurt me. When he deploys his hardpoints, I want to wonder if he has something I have never seen before....

What we want is more variations of CMDRs along with the actual content. Cash sinks dont have to be these giant affairs that take hundreds of millions to complete/build/acquire. They can be as simple as the ideas Troa has suggested.

Now, if FDev can just expand upon all of this...
It really makes this an exciting time for the game. They have opened the door to many new possibilities, lets just hope the fan base, in general, can continue to Hold that door open...

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Do you even pirate bro? I'll agree with you that piracy shouldn't/can't be the highest paying profession, it also shouldn't be the second lowest. Right now, with the exception of mining, piracy is the lowest paying profession. NPCs mostly carry crap cargo, nothing that is worth stealing, and with players it's too difficult to steal a decent amount(10-20% imo) of cargo from them. You pretty much have to hope the are feeling generous and want to drop 20 tons.

Piracy doesn't need a buff to profits, it needs a buff to effectiveness. Limpets and shooting the hatch are useless for big ships, scooping is a pain, and killing the drives just sends a targets hurling through space.

I'm all for the wait and see approach since we know drones will have a big impact to piracy. I still do thing it will need a buff to how much a pirate can effectively take from a trader. It will also need a buff to npc's cargo distribution to make npcs a viable target. Who knows, if all that gets fixed FD might be able to lower the stolen good resell value back down to 50% instead of 75%.

 

[Ydiss]

Yes they are, anyone can/must at some stage collect bounties or trade for that matter to progress. Not everyone is a morally bereft PvP pirate is the more accurate statement.

The "or trade" part of your reply immediately contradicts your argument

Increasing bounty rewards didn't result in everyone exclusively bounty hunting.

Increasing the viability of piracy won't result in everyone being a pirate. That was what the op was essentially saying.

My favourite pastime is combat. I wanted to fight more than trade but I used to have to trade to make serious cash. Now I can bounty hunt and make serious cash. I'm happier than I was before.

I can now exclusively fight to progress. Indeed, I did exactly that with my alt. It doesn't mean that is all I do, but that option is now open to me. Hence my happiness.

The same will apply for players who want to pirate if (or, rather, when) piracy is improved.

The ideal state for the game to be in is where any chosen career can be enjoyed as part of natural progression, without feeling it necessary to do something less desirable to progress just so they can do what they want.

And those aren't just my words. Hence me linking a video showing David Braben saying similar words.

 

[TruffleSnout]

need a buff to npc's cargo distribution to make npcs a viable target.

This is my single biggest beef with pirating. This needs to happen. If the system is a refinery, I should see more metals in NPC cargo, if the system is agri, more food, etc...

Right now, just hunting wss for illegal salvage is more profitable than actually interdicting NPCs.

 

[Jaeger]

The "or trade" part of your reply immediately contradicts your argument

If that's true then Frontier have failed in their attempt to reboot Elite, the space trading game. The very core and heart of it.

 

[Quineloe]

Do you even pirate bro? I'll agree with you that piracy shouldn't/can't be the highest paying profession, it also shouldn't be the lowest. Right now it is in a close tie with mining as to the lowest paying profession. NPCs mostly carry crap cargo, nothing that is worth stealing, and with players it's too difficult to steal a decent amount(10-20% imo) of cargo from them. You pretty much have to hope the are feeling generous and want to drop 20 tons.

Piracy doesn't need a buff to profits, it needs a buff to effectiveness. Limpets and shooting the hatch are useless for big ships, scooping is a pain, and killing the drives just sends a targets hurling through space.

I'm all for the wait and see approach since we know drones will have a big impact to piracy. I still do thing it will need a buff to how much a pirate can effectively take from a trader. It will also need a buff to npc's cargo distribution to make npcs a viable target. Who knows, if all that gets fixed FD might be able to lower the stolen good resell value back down to 50% instead of 75%.

Oh please, if done well, piracy is a lot better than mining. Easily four times as much.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Oh please, if done well, piracy is a lot better than mining. Easily four times as much.

You're right, I was thinking about piracy, pre 1.2. I wasn't counting the repair cost nerf and stolen goods buff. When I think of how low paying piracy is, I think of when i wasn't ever able to make a profit pirating in my clipper, not to how it is now. Piracy has come up from then but, not by enough imo.

Edited my post to correct that.