Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
So you dont want to play in open, thats fine. Is there something that will change your way? Not now, maybe in 2 months where you are rich and willing to move from a truck to something with more firepower and shoot around?
What is your next target after getting the money (enough to not care about it for a while)?

Got the money to not care. Heading back from the near rim now, then there's the far rim. Circumnavigation. Near rim to far rim around the top of the galaxy and back round the bottom. Same again E-W instead of N-S (as it were). Head into the black and refuse to come back until I've seen 100 undiscovered ELWs. Put my tag on 1000 black holes. Tag every star in a nebula.

Will I ever want to test my reflexes against someone who's keen on PvP? Nope. I have neither the time nor the motivation to practise until I'm good enough.
 
I am sorry but the "not so secret white knights of the forum" have voted (membership of 1) unanimously and I am now empowered to release the following information, this has been top secret right up until they mentioned the xbox version (which was a while back) and only a few thousand people know about it so far, you may wish to sit down, its pretty horrific reading, in fact I suggest a brandy or two first.

When the game is released on the Xbox (yay loads more players in open), my understanding is that you might not ever meet them, I honestly hope you do but the last thing I read was it wouldn't happen and I genuinely hope they change their minds on that (not FD).

Now that is where I would focus my attention if I wanted a lot more people in open, wont be for ~ 6 months but hey I have been waiting for stuff in the game for longer already, petition MS, that's the way forward. Best of luck old chap.

Nah i`m actually not a fan of consoles and specially not a fan of consoleros and PC gamers share the same server/world/whatever. Specially in a game like this where HOTAS give people the needed advantage while flying over a controller or keyboard&mouse. Split it just like in many other games. Playing FPS on a controller is just wrong - sure you can do it, but the feeling is wrong. Just like playing racing games on a keyboard etc.
So i dont count consoleros to my audience - its good for the game, FD can get some extra money and it will keep the game alive and in development for longer. But throwing consoleros and PC gamers into the same world may be really bad for console players. Thats just my opinion, but i hope it will be a different universe for them. But if they come to our world, we will treat them just like anyone else - give us your cargo or we take it :p
 
I would be pretty surprised is the XBOX user were on the same servers as us. We a peer to peer and they wouldn't be able to be a part of that. They may be hosted on XBOX Liver servers...
 
As I understand it they will be on our server, but in there own instance. So they will be right there with us like a new mode. We just won't be able to see them.
 
I would be pretty surprised is the XBOX user were on the same servers as us. We a peer to peer and they wouldn't be able to be a part of that. They may be hosted on XBOX Liver servers...

Consoles are getting more and more like pc's and although im not a software dev, I cant imagine itd be too difficult to code some sort of packet translation for console data on the server side.

Edit: and the fact that you plug consoles straight into your home router ( or use WiFI) means thier already using standard tcp/ip protocols.
 
Last edited:
Consoles are getting more and more like pc's and although im not a software dev, I cant imagine itd be too difficult to code some sort of packet translation for console data on the server side.

Edit: and the fact that you plug consoles straight into your home router ( or use WiFI) means thier already using standard tcp/ip protocols.

Absolutely very possible and not to difficult. Me personally I never understood the thing with Mac's. I had a friend that loaded up a windows emulation software on his MAC, then loaded ED in the emulation software. He's been playing ED since early beta. I think his Mac runs the game better than my PC does. lol. He actually has all the versions of windows form 2000 on. Apparently you can do this with a PC too, run all the windows versions I mean.
 
Last edited:
As I understand it they will be on our server, but in there own instance. So they will be right there with us like a new mode. We just won't be able to see them.

This is my understanding as well. FD are sticking to 1 background sim for everyone - so XB users will share and influence our data.
So people who moan about modes now, hold on tight, they are about to double up with XB solo, XB private and XB open all on one sim (If they follow the same as PC/Mac grouping layouts of course)
 
As Yaffle is the OP, I think he gets some sort award - there will be a red carpet event, speeches, bubbly.
Robert gets a long service medal, other mods all get watches for supporting roles.

Then Yaffle gets to open the second installment of this gripping drama ;)

Wow that's cool what sort of award, I mean an OBE would be a bit much, but he did have a great idea, his contribution to forum tidiness & this new way to avoid duplication is revolutionary, it does deserve recognition, where do you draw the line though with awards?

Now Robert, not just long service, add good conduct with laurels, many a time he saved me a post & put it better than I could (with citations, I like those facts are good!).

All the other mods get counselling. Maybe psychotherapy (no that's not a moon near lave that only exists in open) if they have served more than a week. A watch would be a cruel & unusual reward, it would show how many minutes they have left before they have to be a mod again, sorry Jockey the watch is just wrong, I mean which mod upset you that bad, seriously? before that outrageous suggestion I tended to agree with you but that was a step too far. ;)
 
Last edited:
Yeah, ain't that the truth! I've picked-up a craving for booze, which is dangerous for an abstainer such as myself! <grins wryly>

You really should drink booze, you don't know how much fun you are missing not drinking booze, everyone drinks booze.

You should at least try booze some of the time, its not as bad as you think!, I like it so you must, just because some of your friends had bad experiences with booze doesn't mean you will too, booze is the default option, soft drinks are easy mode.

When I play drunk I am in proper hardcore mode, all the sober people are taking the easy mode, how can I compete against them if they play in sober mode, they make so many more credits than I do and that's why this game will never reach its full potential. ;)
 
Nah i`m actually not a fan of consoles and specially not a fan of consoleros and PC gamers share the same server/world/whatever. Specially in a game like this where HOTAS give people the needed advantage while flying over a controller or keyboard&mouse. Split it just like in many other games. Playing FPS on a controller is just wrong - sure you can do it, but the feeling is wrong. Just like playing racing games on a keyboard etc.
So i dont count consoleros to my audience - its good for the game, FD can get some extra money and it will keep the game alive and in development for longer. But throwing consoleros and PC gamers into the same world may be really bad for console players. Thats just my opinion, but i hope it will be a different universe for them. But if they come to our world, we will treat them just like anyone else - give us your cargo or we take it :p

Ok now I am lost, you want more people in open but only if they play on a PC, do you include Mac's too, are they allowed?, I guess "consoleros" is your newest prejudice.

So you don't "count consoleros to my audience", my lord, I am so happy FD are making they game they want to play rather than the one you thought you bought.

You shout so loud for new targets then exclude them, I am lost for words.
 
As I understand it they will be on our server, but in there own instance. So they will be right there with us like a new mode. We just won't be able to see them.

That was my understanding, they work on the same background as all of us but we will not see them.

Three "modes" as we have them, separated by policy rather than technology.
 
That was my understanding, they work on the same background as all of us but we will not see them.

Three "modes" as we have them, separated by policy rather than technology.

Great so we will have another mode to affect the galaxy out of our control... Play your way*

*It is irrelevant who you way is as you will affect nothing...


- - - Updated - - -

Ok now I am lost, you want more people in open but only if they play on a PC, do you include Mac's too, are they allowed?, I guess "consoleros" is your newest prejudice.

So you don't "count consoleros to my audience", my lord, I am so happy FD are making they game they want to play rather than the one you thought you bought.

You shout so loud for new targets then exclude them, I am lost for words.

Isn't hey just talking about the disadvantage the XBOX player would have by using a game controller in a FPS?? I'n not sure this is a FPS per see and the controller would do a pretty good job maybe.
 
I played many games, most of them with PvP enabled by default (serverside) or by design. I got used to the crowd that loves PvP or at least knows how to deal with it.
Same with WoW, PvP & PvE servers were similar, but both types had enough population to support any playstyle that was possible ingame. You always had enough people for anything. Nightraids with 25 people? Sure. Open PvP in the middle of nowhere just for the sake of it? Sure. City raids - yeah why not.
And there was a reason to split the community into PvE, PvP and the RP-PvE/PvP. It made sense and nobody complained. There we payed to switch the server, here you can just relog.

Looking at how open world PvP evolved in WoW is actually very interesting.

At first there was no instanced PvP. You wanted to fight, you went somewhere in the world and started attacking other players. Southshore became infamous as a permanent hotspot in most PvP realms, and even some PvE ones. Server transfers weren't available (except when Blizzard itself opened free transfers between specific realm pairs to reduce the population of overloaded realms). The original choice of PvP or PvE was, thus, all but unchangeable, which led to players that didn't quite want to be in PvP servers being stuck there. It was my case.

Then, somewhere down the line, Blizzard decided that this kind of unorganized PvP was doing more harm than good, preventing players from doing anything else in the more active zones for long stretches of time. The fact PvPers did choose to make a middle level zone their battlefield, of course, served to further force Blizzard's hand; it meant that the players that should be playing in those zones were powerless to even take part in the fight, and leveling back then was such a mess that skipping one zone was far more troublesome than now. So, Blizzard removed all rewards for open world PvP and opened instanced battlegrounds, and in a short time open world PvP decreased immensely, with most players going into the instanced battlegrounds as they chased the rewards. Blizzard itself decided that they had gone too far in removing PvP from the open world, but attempting to fix it would take time.

(For reference, at the time I was playing daily in one of the most active PvP realms. I was attacked perhaps once a week, unless I went looking for trouble. I think I was attacked only twice as I did the full Alliance version of the Barrens quests.)

Paid character transfers were introduced in the downtime before the first expansion, though there was a cooldown limiting how often they could be done and players couldn't change faction or move between PvP and PvE realms. Burning Crusade also included an attempt to bring back open world PvP: conflict areas in many of the maps, each with a different set of rules, with bonuses to the faction that controlled the objective and rewards the players that won that battle. Thus started WoW's huge issue with faction imbalance; the players of the weaker faction typically wanted to win, not to fight, so players started — first as a trickle, then a torrent — to transfer to servers were their faction was already winning, rather than try to rally and fight back. Ever wondered how servers like Illidan, Mal'Ganis, Sargeras, and Kel'Thuzad — to quote only those among the ten largest PvP realms — became so imbalanced the larger faction has over 10x more players than the smaller one? They weren't like that at first.

An interesting moment was the Zombie Invasion event that happened as Burning Crusade drew to a close. For a week it allowed players to turn into zombies and attack every non-zombie player, including those of their own faction. Many players simply loved that event, but what seemed to be an equally large number utterly hated it; the forums were taken by both praise and complaints, the moderators were working overtime to try to bring the forums back into a semblance of order, and even some devs were pressed into helping calm down the players that disliked the event. In an unprecedented move, Blizzard even revealed when the event would end ahead of time to allay the concerns of the complaining players and offered game time refunds to players that demanded it. To this day they keep the information of how exactly the player base reacted locked, though the fact none of the three expansion launch events since came even close to allowing that much mayhem seems to indicate things didn't end particularly well for Blizzard.

Wrath of the Lich King showed how grave the imbalance issues were. It introduced Wintergrasp, a conflict zone in the middle of the new continent, with bigger rewards than ever to the controlling faction. The issue is that, in imbalanced realms — which, by then, were most of them — one faction completely dominated Wintergrasp; in one of the realms I played, one that wasn't even too imbalanced (about 3 horde players for every 2 alliance ones at the time), the leading faction won roughly 95% of the fights, and that wasn't an exception as far as realms go. Players of the smaller faction, in most imbalanced realms, started to not even show up to the fight, and the realms further moved towards having just one noteworthy faction. Open world PvP, even in the single zone constructed for PvP, died to the point I was using Wintergrasp as my regular fishing spot, and was attacked perhaps once per month.

There were another two blows to open world PvP during Wrath of the Lich King. The first is that the restrictions on paid character transfers were relaxed, with players now able to transfer between PvP and PvE realms. The second was the introduction of the Looking for Dungeon tool, which allowed players to just queue for dungeons, being teleported there when the tool assembled a group for them; with it, players were able to just get to the minimum level for the first instanced dungeon — which can be done without ever setting foot outside the zones where PvP is restricted — and from then on just stay in the safety of a city jumping from dungeon to dungeon. This way, players that intended to play in PvP realms became able to reach max level without risking a PvP encounter even once, be it because they leveled only by doing instanced content, or because they leveled in a PvE realm and then transferred to a PvP one.

After that I don't have much first hand experience with the subject anymore; I left with Cataclysm (over the removal of the portals, of all things; I can't stand how boring travel is in WoW) and, while I attempted to come back in Mists of Pandaria, finding out just how much I hate daily quests sent me packing again (they truly plagued that expansion). Though from reading the forums and specialized press, it seems like Blizzard's efforts to balance the realms and bring back open world PvP were mostly a failure, with both PvPers and PvE players complaining about each such attempt, and world PvP remaining mostly inexistent in most realms.

Also noteworthy is how the rewards for winning (and consolation prizes for losing) always distorted the instanced battlegrounds; when most people in the fight are there due to the reward, rather than playing for the fun of it, strange things happen. It started, innocently enough, with players completely ignoring the objectives of the map to just make a big brawl in the middle; with the rewards for killing another player, this was more effective in getting rewards than trying to win, and after a while more organized groups started to just line out each side in turn to be slaughtered without fighting back, guaranteeing the largest possible number of kills per minute. When Blizzard reduced the rewards for kills, players started to simply go capture the objectives, not fighting even if they bumped into each other by accident. When winning rewarded far more than losing, players in the side that started to lose would simply start leaving the match, turning what should have been a ten minutes fight into a minute long brawl; when Blizzard increased the rewards for losing, trying to make players remain in the fight to the end, groups started to be organized to just lose as many matches as they could, as fast as they could, gaining rewards for little to no effort. For something that seems simple, WoW's battlegrounds had more than their fair share of issues.

So my point in the end is - we need more people in open, that would help and create more interaction.
I cant force anyone to buy this game, but i can ask people to join the open mode and actually enjoy it. Nobody has to follow, but why people try to stop anyone who wants it?
Open mode is not the bloody world with psychos, murders and pirates everywhere, nice people also play there and you would not believe me - they enjoy it.

I don't have anything against players trying for themselves game modes that allow non-consensual PvP, but I truly think you are deluding yourself if you believe most players that do try will enjoy it and remain; my own experience, plus what little reliable info about that I could find, points to the "silent majority" in most games being far more averse to unwanted player interaction than the forum denizens.

What I am completely against is offering any kind of extra reward or incentive to bring players into a mode where PvP can happen. That just makes players that would rather not subject themselves to PvP play in a way they don't enjoy, a way that speeds up how quickly they will burn out, for the rewards, and IMHO is very damaging for the game in the long run.

BTW, the arguments about PvP not being that common and open needing a bonus to be on an equal footing are at odds. If PvP is as rare as you indicate, then any efficiency loss in open is smaller than the statistical error, and no bonus is needed; if a bonus is needed, then it means that players are attacked enough to impact their performance, which means it's enough to completely change the experience and make the mode unenjoyable to those that don't want to constantly fight other players.
 
This is my understanding as well. FD are sticking to 1 background sim for everyone - so XB users will share and influence our data.
So people who moan about modes now, hold on tight, they are about to double up with XB solo, XB private and XB open all on one sim (If they follow the same as PC/Mac grouping layouts of course)

Sorry, I have never been very good at keeping secrets, recent one's I am ok with, but if it was in the newsletter weeks ago I struggle a little, pfft FD and their secret newsletters.

Hope I didn't rock the boat too much, I like to keep a low profile round here ;), has anyone mentioned the playstation version yet if it happens, I guess they better stay away from us PC players lol, consolewhatumacallits.

I was 51 posts behind you jockey, closing in on the position of shame, please reply to this at least 3 times, jeez I didn't even have a wall of facts to post, to be fair though you did have to post them several times as the same people kept missing them, I find that strange, all those facts took up the whole page and I have a pretty big screen, if they cant read it with all the big font & colours I doubt they could find a conda in a barrel lol.
 
My supposition on the problem with a consensual full-time pvp private group, is that everyone would sign up to be the pitcher and then moan there were no catchers? :/

It's the old issue with sheep and wolves. Ever since the sheep discovered they have options, that they don't need to be prey to the wolves unless they choose to, no game has been able to replicate the same environment, with PvP and PvE players living in the same space and enough targets to keep the trigger-happy PvPers content, that Ultima Online had. The ones that come the closest do so by having much higher penalties for attacking unwilling players than UO had.

Of course, UO only managed that, even if for a short while, because there was no option for the players; you wanted to play a MMO, you played UO. And it's continued existence was threatened for a good while due to it; as the devs found out, the burn out rate of the "sheep", in an environment like that, is ridiculously high.
 
Ok now I am lost, you want more people in open but only if they play on a PC, do you include Mac's too, are they allowed?, I guess "consoleros" is your newest prejudice.

So you don't "count consoleros to my audience", my lord, I am so happy FD are making they game they want to play rather than the one you thought you bought.

You shout so loud for new targets then exclude them, I am lost for words.

Well you didnt understand it. I said that console players will have a disadvantage infight compared to PC and Mac users (who can use HOTAS). This may be irrelevant for PvE in the current state, because its easy. But for PvP every advantage counts. Eve small improvements on the hardware can give you the needed last bit of optimization to win more often than you lose. And here is not a small disadvantage, it a huge one. So far i know there is no way to slap HOTAS or Flightsticks to the XBone. Even the keyboard&mouse-devices (yeah there are some) have huge problems like delay and stability.
Try to play a racing game with a keyboard against a skilled driver with wheel, gearshift etc. You will lose 9 out of 10 times.

I want to play with people who can at least use the same hardware, that is suited for the type of game we play here.

And so far it looks like they will be separated from PC&Mac universe, so it doesnt matter.

P.S. i lied, there are flightsticks for the Xbox, at least the 360 had some like the Cyborg FLY 9. Cant find anything for the Xbone, so people will stick with the gamepads.

@DarkWalker

Yeah i know the history. I was playing WoW on german servers mostly. It was pretty much the same, but open PvP in classic was the best expirience. Yeah it was not balanced at all, we had no dedicated PvP gear, nothing. But we had fun, and oneshotting lowbies was not part of the fun. We did just because we saw someone running around and he was hostile.
It was pretty new back then for most people and it required some skill to survive in the open field.

Yeah people were toxic, salty and p*ssed about the open PvP in the area, but that was a part of the game and many people enjoyed it.

Other, completly PvP oriented games manage to survive and grow no matter what. Better balanced and the "sheep" part is removed completly - people who buy such games - they know it will be hard, bloody and fair (most of the time). But play them for a while and it gets boring so fast.. Same maps, same metagame, you just repeat it day after day. This is why some people actually want a different style of game, but they want to keep up the usual combat level and get the needed adrenaline by fighting someone who is better than NPCs (and most people who play ED are better than NPCs, honestly - i`m afraid of a T9 that can ram me to death, not of the elite conda next to him).

And so far i got - PvP is pretty rare. And some people go into solo after just 1-2 bad fights, not after 2-3 months when they are bored.

P.S. look a bit more at korean MMOs. Grindheavy, but the PvP is always present and works pretty fine. Sure, the mentality is different and if you beat someone there he will do anything to become better - thats how korean player took over so many competitive games and pushed any other region out of the top. I love the mentality and would like to see it often here. Love and live to fight ingame :)
 
Last edited:
Nah i`m actually not a fan of consoles and specially not a fan of consoleros and PC gamers share the same server/world/whatever. Specially in a game like this where HOTAS give people the needed advantage while flying over a controller or keyboard&mouse. Split it just like in many other games. Playing FPS on a controller is just wrong - sure you can do it, but the feeling is wrong. Just like playing racing games on a keyboard etc.

The whole "PC master race of gaming" crap is something that really hacks me off. Look Mr Cryon, game controllers have not been designed by engineers to be difficult for the human hand to operate. Quite the contrary, they've been developed over the years to allow more precision and ease of use so that there is less processing between human and game, and allowing the human greater interaction.

Skyrim, Dragon Age: Inquisition, Borderlands 2, etc all had PC controller support because PC gamers wanted it. Elite too. That isn't to say that keyboard and mouse or joysticks are worse or inadequate, but it's purely a matter of personal preference.

I don't have anything against players trying for themselves game modes that allow non-consensual PvP, but I truly think you are deluding yourself if you believe most players that do try will enjoy it and remain; my own experience, plus what little reliable info about that I could find, points to the "silent majority" in most games being far more averse to unwanted player interaction than the forum denizens.

I totally agree.

Did you see the response from the Assassins Creed playerbase that the next AC game (Assassins Creed: Syndicate) won't feature multiplayer? I believe the phrase "music to my ears" was used a great deal.

What a lot of multiplayer folks, and game developers, fail to realize is that there are a LOT of introverts out there in the world. Not nutcases or friendless outcasts living in dark basements. Ordinary, friendly, well-balanced people who enjoy the same things as everyone else (games, movies, music) but who nevertheless don't enjoy being shoved into the company of people they don't know or aren't friends with.

Their nature tends to make more quiet and less inclined to be as outspoken as the extrovert, hence they're less likely to come along to this forum and complain about PvP.

A lot of them are playing Elite. This game, the isolation of space, the rushing about with trades, fighting in zones as a mercenary, quiet mining or (best of all for a lot of them) exploring deep space on your own, in other words the "lone wolf" aspect is exactly the sort of thing that has an appeal to this demographic.

Force them to join some big social dance party in space and watch as they all go elsewhere.
 
If ED had sold 250.000 copies, and "open play" was the only game mode, this thread wouldn't exist.

The game sold over 500.000 copies (so far), and roughly half of the ED players play in open play ?

Voila, 600+ pages and counting...funny how that works out.

Yes, i DO understand, this thread is about many other aspects than that, but from a pure "open play population" point of view, i struggle to see a problem.
 
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom