Discover the genealogy of duval (infographic)

[aymerix]

Hello,

I've create a card for the duval's Genealogy WIP. I haven't found all the names. If you have information I would be happy to complete my work. I am also busy making cards for game characters is an example (in french, sorry) : http://www.galnet.fr/personnages/denton-patreus/ WIP : http://www.galnet.fr/personnages
Thank you for your comments
EDIT : update the tree : Create Hector Duval, add Crazy Harry surname.

View attachment 36415

 

[Petersen]

Huh. I don't see Petraeus there at all. Or Torval. Or Kahina (forget her last name). Wierd. I thought they all had 'legitimate' claims to the throne. </sarcasm>

 

[aymerix]

Thank you for reply

Patreus is the Aisling's "boyfriend" no ? But Torval isn't a Duval ? She's married with a member of this family ? Thank you for your help. This is a WIP, I try to finish it for the power play
This card concern only the Duval Familiy.

 

[Petersen]

Wait, I think you misunderstood. I was making a dig at people who think those senators have a claim on the throne. I did forget about the Petraeus/Aisling 'ship', but they're not married. Are they even really 'dating', or were they just seen together and the TMZ of the 3300s decided to claim they're "an item"? I really have a hard time believing there's much to Petraeus/Aisling, their ideologies seem wildly different.

Harold was disinherited by his father, so he's out of the running (Emperor's word is law and all that). Arissa is a direct descendant of the Emperor. Aisling is only his grand daughter. Even if Harold's being disinherited didn't extend to her as a result (since he's her father), Arissa is a direct descendant, and should so get priority.

Anyone else isn't a Duval by blood, so has no place sitting on the Duval throne.

The thread a page or two back about the Imperial succession (with a poll) has a write-up in the OP with a Duval family tree that goes back a generation or two more, you might find it useful.

 

[CMDR Beltane]

Cool, nice piece work Aymerix. Didn't even know a Harold Duval exist.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

According to FFE era sources, there's also Hector Duval, CEO of Gutamaya and fourth in line in the imperial succession.

From the text describing Gutamaya:

Gutamaya Corporation:
An Imperial Corporation, Gutamaya's main interests are in mining and ship manufacture. They make the Eagle Mk 3, and the 'Imperial' series of ships. It has been suggested that one of the reasons why corporation get so many contracts to build ships for the Imperial Navy is that Prince Hector Duval, fourth in line for the Imperial Throne, is CEO of the company.

Doesn't clearly state the kind of relationship unfortunately, but makes me wonder who the other two in line before him are and what became of them (assuming Harald wasn't disinherited by that time and was first in line). Anyway - it suggests there were at least 3 more male Duvals in line before the bunch of illegitimate women, lunatics and parvenus we're dealing with now.

 

[Petersen]

Doesn't clearly state the kind of relationship unfortunately, but makes me wonder who the other two in line before him are and what became of them (assuming Harald wasn't disinherited by that time and was first in line). Anyway - it suggests there were at least 3 more male Duvals in line before the bunch of illegitimate women, lunatics and parvenus we're dealing with now.

Oooooooooh. That's very interesting. I'd guess he's a cousin or something? Also, old sources might just be being ignored. =-\ I hate ret-conning, but it seems to be an ever-increasingly common practice to "write better stories".

 

[aymerix]

According to FFE era sources, there's also Hector Duval, CEO of Gutamaya and fourth in line in the imperial succession.

From the text describing Gutamaya:




Doesn't clearly state the kind of relationship unfortunately, but makes me wonder who the other two in line before him are and what became of them (assuming Harald wasn't disinherited by that time and was first in line). Anyway - it suggests there were at least 3 more male Duvals in line before the bunch of illegitimate women, lunatics and parvenus we're dealing with now.

very interesting. I'll look and add it without direct connexion on the current scheme. I'll creat a new card on my website for Hector. H is an important letter for the first names of the family apparently
Thank you all for your comments and support. This tool is for everyone whether it is useful.

 

[aymerix]

Another question: in the AMA, Braben talk about Harry Duval playable in the the Power Play. Any information about this character ? Harry = Harold ?

 

[Iori]

Another question: in the AMA, Braben talk about Harry Duval playable in the the Power Play. Any information about this character ?

He was declared mad and disinherited by the emperor. He'll probably be supporting his daughter for the throne in Power Play.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

Oooooooooh. That's very interesting. I'd guess he's a cousin or something? Also, old sources might just be being ignored. =-\ I hate ret-conning, but it seems to be an ever-increasingly common practice to "write better stories".

I guess they'll just ignore it since they seem to be dead set to leave as with a bunch of complete rejects. This is what a proper Duval candidate should look and act like - and what do we get? Patreus - a non-Duval upstart in league with a brain damaged bimbo.

As for "write better stories": given the typical galnet post, I'd expect something along the lines of "All three male Duval Heirs in line before the current contenders were like totally eaten by killer tomatoes whilst dancing the funky chicken in capitals hanger." if they bothered to explain what happened.

 

[Commander Starcloak]

Harold was disinherited by his father, so he's out of the running (Emperor's word is law and all that). Arissa is a direct descendant of the Emperor. Aisling is only his grand daughter. Even if Harold's being disinherited didn't extend to her as a result (since he's her father), Arissa is a direct descendant, and should so get priority.

It actually doesn't work like that. By primogeniture laws if, say, the eldest son of the monarch died before his father, but himself had a child - that child would have a better priority than the monarch's younger children. So unless Hengist disinherited not just Harold but all of Harold's heirs too, then Aisling's claim is still stronger than Arissa's.

I guess they'll just ignore it since they seem to be dead set to leave as with a bunch of complete rejects. This is what a proper Duval candidate should look and act like - and what do we get? Patreus - a non-Duval upstart in league with a brain damaged bimbo.

So where's the evidence that Aisling is brain-damaged? Official material?

 

[Poseidal]

The Lorens are a distant offshoot of the Duvals. I wouldn't be shocked if the Torvals were too.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

It actually doesn't work like that. By primogeniture laws if, say, the eldest son of the monarch died before his father, but himself had a child - that child would have a better priority than the monarch's younger children. So unless Hengist disinherited not just Harold but all of Harold's heirs too, then Aisling's claim is still stronger than Arissa's.

So what do we know?

His [Hensons's] dream of Empire was fulfilled when he announced that the leadership of the colony and any affiliated systems would be passed down from father to son. With that mandate were the seeds lain for the purging of female descendants from the Duval line forever. Indeed, genetic measures began only two decades later to ensure that no female would be heir to the empire.

Source

So we can assume the Empire's succession laws are agnatic primogeniture (however it doesn't say it has to be the oldest son). That would make Hara/old heir, however he was disinherited and it would exclude Arissa and Aisling (or Torval and Loren, although both have officially denied aiming for the thone themselves so far).

Law is seen and enforced very differently in the Empire. Senators are responsible for enforcing the Emperor's laws, but the Senators themselves are above the law. They can order executions, and can even kill people themselves, though sometimes (rarely) they may be held to account for their actions by the Emperor.

Source

We can safely assume that Hengist disinheriting Harald overrides any succession laws.
Hengist intended to marry Arissas mother before falling into a coma, so apparently it was his wish to see her position strenghtened, yet couldn't finish his plans. With Arissa being female, that still wouldn't make her heir unless the emperor actively overrides succession law again.

Apparently, being illegitimate is an issue, however both, Arissa and Aisling are illegitimate. Obviously, Aisling can't be legitimised because her mother died from a drug overdose and her father can be considered dead as far as succession goes.

Taken together, there is no legitimate heir among the descendents of Hengist, in which case agnatic seniority would apply and the throne would go to the two unknown male Duvals in line after Harald or - if they died - to Hector Duval.

So where's the evidence that Aisling is brain-damaged? Official material?

Ayn Galnet post containing Aisling quotes - about as official as it gets.

 

[Iori]

So where's the evidence that Aisling is brain-damaged? Official material?

She is an anti-slavery activist. Can't get much more brain-damaged than that.

 

[Commander Starcloak]

So what do we know?

Source

So we can assume the Empire's succession laws are agnatic primogeniture (however it doesn't say it has to be the oldest son). That would make Hara/old heir, however he was disinherited and it would exclude Arissa and Aisling (or Torval and Loren, although both have officially denied aiming for the thone themselves so far).

Source

We can safely assume that Hengist disinheriting Harald overrides any succession laws.
Hengist intended to marry Arissas mother before falling into a coma, so apparently it was his wish to see her position strenghtened, yet couldn't finish his plans. With Arissa being female, that still wouldn't make her heir unless the emperor actively overrides succession law again.

Apparently, being illegitimate is an issue, however both, Arissa and Aisling are illegitimate. Obviously, Aisling can't be legitimised because her mother died from a drug overdose and her father can be considered dead as far as succession goes.

Taken together, there is no legitimate heir among the descendents of Hengist, in which case agnatic seniority would apply and the throne would go to the two unknown male Duvals in line after Harald or - if they died - to Hector Duval.

The source is historical however, and thus far in Elite: Dangerous it has not been clarified whether or not agnatic primogeniture is still in place. The official Elite: Dangerous wiki doesn't even mention the agnatic primogeniture of the past, so is it even still in place by 3301? Let's say, for argument's sake, that it is, and, also, that Hengist cutting Harold out means that Harold can make absolutely no claim whatsoever. Then, indeed, it should pass to any younger sons of the Emperor. Failing their existence (or existence of children of theirs), we would then look to the Emperor's brothers and their male offspring - all would have a better claim than either Aisling or Arissa. What makes it difficult is that again, thus far, no mention has been made of any uncles or cousins lying in wait in the current royal family. You would have thought that if they existed, they would have stepped in to make their claim by now, and that the devs would've drawn attention to them by now. Therefore, it seems extremely likely that either agnatic primogeniture was indeed abandoned some time ago (in which case, females having as strong a claim as males, Aisling would have a better claim than Arissa - at least unless Hengist had managed to make it down the aisle, in which case, Arissa being legitimate, she would have the better claim over Aisling), OR, agnatic primogeniture is still in place - but there are simply no male heirs to be found. If that were the case, then we have to ask are there any rules in place regarding succession in the case of no male heirs? Is there a clause somewhere that says female heirs are to be turned ot if no male Duvals exist? Or, if not... we must conclude that basically the Duvals are *%&!ed and the next ruler can legitimately be absolutely anyone. Unless they can dig up some super-distant male cousin from somewhere.

Of course, Iori and Kirk's comments on Aisling's mental capacity are entirely speculative - and I say that as someone who suspects she may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer - but if it turns out she's a genius, I'm willing to reverse my opinion of her, even pledge to her. Too early to know what games everyone is playing yet. I guess we'll have to wait for Powerplay before anyone really tips their hand.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

Then, indeed, it should pass to any younger sons of the Emperor. Failing their existence (or existence of children of theirs), we would then look to the Emperor's brothers and their male offspring - all would have a better claim than either Aisling or Arissa. What makes it difficult is that again, thus far, no mention has been made of any uncles or cousins lying in wait in the current royal family. You would have thought that if they existed, they would have stepped in to make their claim by now, and that the devs would've drawn attention to them by now.

Of course - As I mentioned earlier I seriously doubt we'll ever hear anything of Hector and the two male Duvals in line before any of the current contenders. (Not sure how canonic Hectors claim is - it's mentioned on Jades, which used to be reliable).

It has been mentioned that Hengist Duval didn't undergo genetic modification, which would include increased life expentancy as well as countermeasures against female offspring. However this doesn't mean he'd accept female offspring as heirs (although his preference for Arissa implies he did).

Anyway - I'm pretty certain FD wont introduce an old male conservative charismatic Duval in line with the agnatic seniority laws because they think it's too obvious and therefore imbalanced. I wouldn't say that - the Trolling is strong in this game (which is a good thing).

Hell - even I might end up supporting Aisling to witness the Empires destruction and defect to the Alliance to pick on the Empires bones simply because FD don't offer a single acceptable heir.

We'll see

 

[Goose4291]

Not as fancy looking, but I put one together a few months back for Unofficial GALNET. Hope this helps.

The reason I've regularly banged on about Arissa having the strongest claim for weeks now is that when she first stepped onto the scene, it was to the following GALNET post

Arissa Lavigny is the Daughter of the Emperor
Arissa Lavigny, the outspoken courtier and the daughter of historic socialite Prince Aristide Lavigny (famously eaten by his own pet Linglang when Arissa was very young) has declared that the Prince was not her father.
She claimed that she is in fact the illegitimate daughter of Emperor Hengist. She spent many of her early years around the Imperial Court. Her father and mother were close friends of the Emperor, and perhaps now we know why. Her mother is still seen in court from time to time.
The information was conveyed in a press release and our requests for an interview with Arissa have so far been declined.
This would put her claim to the throne ahead of Aisling Duval's, but her parents being unmarried still means her claim is not solid. Palace officials could not be drawn to comment, but the fact that the Palace has not issued a denial is significant.

What can we divine from this, (assuming the article is itself 100% steeped in Frontiers lore as it stands, seen as they published it)?

That Arissa Lavigny-Duval has the strongest legitimate claim at present regardless of marriage between the Emperor and her mother (it clearly says she has the stronger claim over Aisling, and as Aisling at that stage had the strongest claim due to Harold's disinheritence).

We can quote Agnatic Primogentiure, Gravelkind and Ultimogeniture till we're blue in the face, but the fact remains, we have to go with what we've been given in the lore of the universe.