Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

Jorlin · May 15, 2015

atak2 said:
To summarise my feelings on how Elite's development should continue with regards to Open Vs Solo Vs Group:

Solo/Group O <-- O --> O Open

Separate background simulation and Commander saves.

View attachment 36546

Failing that make Open as productive a mode as Solo/Group during CG's and Powerplay operations through incentives; or put RNG advanced npc's (i.e. generally more difficult than normal npc's but potential to generate an easy npc) in each mode to simulate what is happening with each player in each mode.

let me think about it...

no.

Snakebite · May 15, 2015

DarkWalker said:
As I said before, it's fundamentally different, for me at least. To the point I don't get how someone can even think the two equivalent.

A NPC is just a bit of code, with no sentience, no actual choice in how it behaves, and so on; getting angry at an NPC would be like getting angry at the wall because you punched it and hurt your hand.

A player, though, is a real, living, thinking person, one that has full control over his actions and can choose to behave in game in whichever way he wants. If a player ruins my day, it's because that player either decided to do that intentionally, or else knew that his actions could potentially have that effect but choose to do them regardless.

Or perhaps he just decided to play the game as a 'baddie' and was carrying on in that role in a perfectly plausible manner. The Game calls for pirates, its a legitimate mode of gameplay, get over it.

Jorlin · May 15, 2015

Snakebite said:
Or perhaps he just decided to play the game as a 'baddie' and was carrying on in that role in a perfectly contextual manner. The Game calls for pirates, get over it.

sure, it does!
but it doesn't call for players being victims... get over it.

Snakebite · May 15, 2015

Jorlin said:
sure, it does!
but it doesn't call for players being victims... get over it.

Of course it does, pirates prey on traders, its a perfectly legitimate mode of gameplay.

If player A is a trader and player B is a pirate then its pefectly reasonable and within the spirit of the game for player B to attack player A. Thats fundamentally what its all about.

atak2 · May 15, 2015

Jorlin said:
let me think about it...

no.

Good thing I was putting this proposal to FD.

Mercy Killing · May 15, 2015

Still a circular argument, I see.

To everyone in favor of "incentivizing" open play by adding a bonus to CG's in open play....the only reaction that will garner is my not participating in community goals any more. Why should I get less rewards/contributions for playing a mode that favors my personal skill level?

*note*

I am in a (mostly) A-specced Vulture. An Elite rated NPC in a sidewinder will send me packing. I play solo because I'm an aging gamer. There is literally NO WAY I can compete with younger, faster players. So...I do what I can to compete. Which is.....wait for it.....PLAY IN SOLO. At least there I can contribute to a community goal. Oh, and my contributions should be in no way, shape or form any lesser than yours.

Edit:

Snakebite said:
Of course it does, pirates prey on traders, its a perfectly legitimate mode of gameplay.

If player A is a trader and player B is a pirate then its pefectly reasonable and within the spirit of the game for player B to attack player A. Thats fundamentally what its all about.

Then how about you taking your turn at getting blown to smithereens for no good reason, hmm?

I'm betting your reply will be "Because I don't find it fun."

So what makes it fun for your(the general use, to imply ANY "pirate"...not singling you out.)victims, hmm?

Jorlin · May 15, 2015

Snakebite said:
Of course it does, pirates prey on traders, its a perfectly legitimate mode of gameplay.

you can't expect people to play the "victim" role.
why should they do it? how could they enjoy it?
even with removing every other mode than open you wouldn't get more traders into your game. they would just adapt and do something else. why is this so hard to understand?

Snakebite · May 15, 2015

Mercy Killing said:
Still a circular argument, I see.

To everyone in favor of "incentivizing" open play by adding a bonus to CG's in open play....the only reaction that will garner is my not participating in community goals any more. Why should I get less rewards/contributions for playing a mode that favors my personal skill level?

*note*

I am in a (mostly) A-specced Vulture. An Elite rated NPC in a sidewinder will send me packing. I play solo because I'm an aging gamer. There is literally NO WAY I can compete with younger, faster players. So...I do what I can to compete. Which is.....wait for it.....PLAY IN SOLO. At least there I can contribute to a community goal. Oh, and my contributions should be in no way, shape or form any lesser than yours.

This thread has already descended into several seperate 'conversations' and they need separating into seperate threads to hold any meaning

CATPAIN KIRK · May 15, 2015

Some of the issues are related to one problem - the completely inept AI.

Taking down the average CZ master Clipper takes me under ten seconds in an FDL, taking down a human CMDR might actually result in a loss (yes - I'm bad at combat).

An NPC Elite Anaconda should be an "oh crap" moment, yet currently is "Yay - 200k free credits for taking 3-4 pot shots at am imbeciles power plant".

I've been playing since early August 2014, yet haven't been killed by NPCs one single time. I don't keep track of PvP fights - lost most of them even against inferior ships, but let's just say I lost every single one of them for the arguments sake.

The discrepancy between NPCs and humans is ridiculous atm.

Jorlin · May 15, 2015

atak2 said:
Good thing I was putting this proposal to FD.

good thing i don't care about your opinion or intentions

Distance · May 15, 2015

Jorlin said:
you can't expect people to play the "victim" role.
why should they do it? how could they enjoy it?
even with removing every other mode than open you wouldn't get more traders into your game. they would just adapt and do something else. why is this so hard to understand?

Player C is the bounty hunter and the food chain is complete

I used to love being pirated when I was trading, it really got the blood pumping.

Jordan Cobalt · May 15, 2015

Mercy Killing said:
To everyone in favor of "incentivizing" open play by adding a bonus to CG's in open play....the only reaction that will garner is my not participating in community goals any more. Why should I get less rewards/contributions for playing a mode that favors my personal skill level?

Funny because that's how I feel now.

Jorlin · May 15, 2015

Jordan Cobalt said:
Funny because that's how I feel now.

still doesn't answer why there could be a chance of establishing a lower end of the foodchain.

Edit: ooops... wrong quote.

was directed at Distance

atak2 · May 15, 2015

Jordan Cobalt said:
Funny because that's how I feel now.

Exactly.

Jordan Cobalt · May 15, 2015

Distance said:
Player C is the bounty hunter and the food chain is complete

I used to love being pirated when I was trading, it really got the blood pumping.

Or a trader could grow some teeth and play both. Trade ships are a lost cause, but a multirole ship can pack a punch and still carry a lot of cargo.

Snakebite · May 15, 2015

Distance said:
Player C is the bounty hunter and the food chain is complete

I used to love being pirated when I was trading, it really got the blood pumping.

When I played as a trader it was only the constant threat of being pirated that made the game in any way exiting, the only difference between an NPC pirate and a 'human' one is that the NPC's in any game soon become predictable and boring, that is why multiplayer games are so much more fun, the 'enemy' can adapt his tactics where an NPC just does the same thing over and over. A human attacker (or target) is a much more exhilarating and richer experience due to the uncertainty and variation of there behavior.

Jorlin · May 15, 2015

Jordan Cobalt said:
Or a trader could grow some teeth and play both. Trade ships are a lost cause, but a multirole ship can pack a punch and still carry a lot of cargo.

This still doesn't answer why anyone should trade.
They can go BH... or exploring.
Or they could go terrorist and chase away the few remaining traders...

Mercy Killing · May 15, 2015

Jordan Cobalt said:
Or a trader could grow some teeth and play both. Trade ships are a lost cause, but a multirole ship can pack a punch and still carry a lot of cargo.

Or said trader could simply move to group/solo(which is still a perfectly valid way to play) and have their contributions still count as much as if they were in open.

Seriously, the only reason I can find that you(the broad you, meaning all proponents of banishing/lessening solo play) are against this is because it gives you fewer defenseless targets to shoot at.

atak2 · May 15, 2015

I would like to acknowledge that all modes should be equal in how they influence CG's, Powerplay, general missions and credit gain regardless of mode.

At the moment I think they favour Solo/Group which is why I advocate changes to Open to bring Open in balance with the other modes.

In the future it is conceivable that Solo or Group may fall behind in how they affect goals compared to Open and if that situation came up I would argue for whatever buff Solo or Group needed to keep the modes equal.

Mercy Killing · May 15, 2015

Snakebite said:
When I played as a trader it was only the constant threat of being pirated that made the game in any way exiting, the only difference between an NPC pirate and a 'human' one is that the NPC's in any game soon become predictable and boring, that is why multiplayer games are so much more fun, the 'enemy' can adapt his tactics where an NPC just does the same thing over and over. A human attacker (or target) is a much more exhilarating and richer experience due to the uncertainty and variation of there behavior.

Jordan Cobalt said:
Funny because that's how I feel now.

Distance said:
Player C is the bounty hunter and the food chain is complete

I used to love being pirated when I was trading, it really got the blood pumping.

atak2 said:
I would like to acknowledge that all modes should be equal in how they influence CG's, Powerplay, general missions and credit gain regardless of mode.

At the moment I think they favour Solo/Group which is why I advocate changes to Open to bring Open in balance with the other modes.

In the future it is conceivable that Solo or Group may fall behind in how they affect goals compared to Open and if that situation came up I would argue for whatever buff Solo or Group needed to keep the modes equal.

See that large, bold part? Just because you think something does not make it an actual fact.

I love it how nobody actually adressed my issue of invalidating my game play because I'm not as skilled as I once was...but still paid for a game I like, therefore my play should be just as valid as theirs.

Avoidance?

[video=youtube;OnL_4QCODEU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnL_4QCODEU[/video]