One of the main reasons I'm a defector

I was excited at first, as there was a serious lack of space-sim in my life, and I liked Chris Roberts games back in the day. Dropped everything when I seen Elite getting kickstarted though as those were my faves.

SC project seems to be getting more bloated by the month, with so much money and stretch goals to cover now, I hope it's doesn't drag the game down
 
They could end up being buried by feature creep. I hope they don't end up wasting massive amounts of money throwing at problems of their own making, and I also hope they realise they don't have to spend all that money before their release date. Get core, working product out the door and then build on that.
 
I've backed both games. I don't see any reason to 'defect' to one side or the other. Both games are trying to accomplish similar things by bringing Space Sims back into the mainstream and both are being made by veterans of the industry. I have great hopes for both of them.

As for people being scary, that's just the way the internet is. People will act in all sorts of strange ways when they have anonymity. Some worship what's going on with Star Citizen, others tear the game and its developers apart for every little thing that they perceive as 'wrong' or 'late'. The best thing to do is to ignore them and wait for the game. I don't think Elite: Dangerous would be any different if the shoe was on the other foot. Crazy people are just crazy. Keep calm and carry on, as they say. :)
 
IMHO they have swallowed way more than they can handle, ED is doing it RIGHT..focus on the CORE GAMEPLAY (Dogfighting) and handle the other stuff after thats solid. It es me off when I see them accepting all the fanboys features that have nothing to do with the core game and its gonna bite them in the ass big time.


They could end up being buried by feature creep. I hope they don't end up wasting massive amounts of money throwing at problems of their own making, and I also hope they realise they don't have to spend all that money before their release date. Get core, working product out the door and then build on that.
 
To Heck with the lamp. We want a... Shrubbery!

Mobius, might we have a decorative shrubbery to mark the occasion?

You know, I bet somewhere in the procedurally generated Elite Galaxy, there's a procedurally generated planet, procedurally named Ni. You could make quite a killing selling shrubberies there...;-)
 
IMHO they have swallowed way more than they can handle, ED is doing it RIGHT..focus on the CORE GAMEPLAY (Dogfighting) and handle the other stuff after thats solid. It es me off when I see them accepting all the fanboys features that have nothing to do with the core game and its gonna bite them in the ass big time.

Yeah, as a professional software engineer myself, this is why I didn't back SC. Braben understands how ambitious a project like this is and is taking a solid, rational approach to it. Roberts gives me no such confidence. A vague, sprawling feature set to be implemented as a series of tightly bound "modules" in a single dev cycle spanning nearly four years? Not that I wish anything ill on the project, but I'll believe it when I see it. They've set themselves up for a train wreck which has probably already started.
 
I tend to go back to something Cathy said ages ago:

Hmm, had a look at the SC website and not surprised the game already feels very male.


I'm not quite sure what she means, but I think I agree.

I may be wrong but I get the impression that, despite all the dynamic economy, exploration, socialising, trading and deep simulation...etc... it's all going to turn into one big competitive deathmatch and they might as well have just made the dogfighting bit. Maybe that's what she means...

That said I have backed it, and I reckon the single player campaign alone will be worth my 20 odd quid.
 
I really hope that CR/SC doesn't end up falling into the "Duke Nukem Forever" trap, constantly trying to keep his product at the leading edge of the market, afraid to release something that will not match up to the expectations of a perceived budget and further being pressured by the successes of a perceived rival product.

Unfortunately I think you might be on to something here. I doubt SC will end up as the next Duke Nukem but I think you have a point about the fear of failing to meet expectations.

The problem with a hype based campaign is that you are then required to live up to that hype. Fostering a cult like atmosphere among your "followers" might be great for getting the cash flowing in like a river but if he doesn't deliver, by his own mouth, "The Best Damn Space Sim Ever" the fallout will be apocalyptic. To make matters worse the definition of BDSSE is unique to every single one of the "followers". How exactly does one deliver that?

Now you might scoff at me and say "No one expects the BDSSE literally..." but I assure you there are many in the SC community that are quite literally expecting an exquisite and viable alternative to reality to be presented to them come 01-01-2015, and they tend to be the most vocal and active in the community :S

I think CIG needs to exercise a little Expectation Management, but they don't, and they won't, as it is counter to the marketing methods they have chosen to employ. Even on the odd occasion that they do, the recent delay announcement for instance, the immediate response in the community is for those aforementioned "vocal and active" to spit out "Don't Panic" threads all over the shop in a somewhat desperate attempt to allay their own subconscious fears.

Speaking of fear, it is palpable over there as evidenced by the reaction to anyone making even the slightest comment that isn't singing the lord's praises. I am not talking outright SC/CIG bashing and trolling either, I am talking general raising of issues and concerns. They are immediately set upon en masse by the zealots of the faith, especially if those concerns are with CIGs methods. Even CIG staff get in on the act... It's all a bit revolting really...

Hence jumping ship rather than just backing out of the community and supporting both games. I am just not interested in supporting a company that fosters this kind of behaviour and shamelessly manipulates it's adoring fan base.

I do apologise for all the religious cult parallels as I do not seek to insult anyone with religious beliefs, it's just the most apt parallel I can make and hope you can understand that.

tl;dr:
I do not want CIG to fail, but I also see them setting themselves up for failure. I hope SC succeeds for the sake of the fans that have pledged money for it. I just wish CIG would be a little more responsible in how they go about doing their business as they are in a position to hurt a lot of people. Until that happens I have chosen to withdraw my support.
 
I may be wrong but I get the impression that, despite all the dynamic economy, exploration, socialising, trading and deep simulation...etc... it's all going to turn into one big competitive deathmatch and they might as well have just made the dogfighting bit.
That is my impression of it and I am staying well clear until after release or evidence to the contrary. I don't hang out on their forums and have only visited their website maybe a half dozen times so that view may be entirely inaccurate but based on heresay that is my impression.
 
Hell, all of this makes me remember when John Romero's Daikatana was trying to keep up with Id's Quake 2.

I anyway hope all the best for both developers.


PS: yeah I'm that old.
 
That is my impression of it and I am staying well clear until after release or evidence to the contrary. I don't hang out on their forums and have only visited their website maybe a half dozen times so that view may be entirely inaccurate but based on heresay that is my impression.

That's the impression, but Roberts' vision is truly all that. I expect delays as testing out those modules will actually take longer than combat's (same applies to ED, imo), but it will be launched one day.
 
The problem with a hype based campaign is that you are then required to live up to that hype. Fostering a cult like atmosphere among your "followers" might be great for getting the cash flowing in like a river but if he doesn't deliver, by his own mouth, "The Best Damn Space Sim Ever" the fallout will be apocalyptic. To make matters worse the definition of BDSSE is unique to every single one of the "followers". How exactly does one deliver that?

Very interesting analysis and if expectation is not quickly checked it can easily lead to a kind of development death spiral where promises and deliveries move further and further apart.

The difference with Braben I feel is that he has lived and breathed the harsh world of development for the past 30 years where the publishers don't buy these kind of fan friendly promises - they want deliveries. And if you don't deliver they will hammer you financially.

This stands Braben in very good stead from a business and community perspective. He will always think big but he will also think within the confines of what can be delivered. A very valuable mix.
 
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danjo

Banned
It's funny, given how close SC is to Elite in general terms (space game genre etc), it doesn't excite me in the slightest - and I bought WC 3 and 4 back in the day and regard them with fond memories.

I guess it's the backstory and the 'sandbox first' approach that appeals.

Cheers,

Drew.

why do people think space sim began with WC,... this was just roberts copying elite...
he's lived off the back off copying elite the whole time; and the younger generation have no clue.

Elite was THE original sandbox space sim game.. IT all started here; sandbox wasnt even a term, no-one knew at the time what to classify the game as.
 
Hell, all of this makes me remember when John Romero's Daikatana was trying to keep up with Id's Quake 2.

I anyway hope all the best for both developers.


PS: yeah I'm that old.

Well, I was starting to think no one else remembered that (or was "experienced enough" to remember that).

For those that are not familiar with the story, John Romero was one of the most renowned programmers/lead designers at iD - at a time that ID was THE FPS software house - and left to create the grandest FPS ever, Daikatana. Well, didn't really happen, and 44 million usd got burned to create a rather lackluster game that had been hyped.

For several reasons I do not think that SC will become a Daikatana, but some of the issues that affected Daikatana - namely underestimating the impact of having to create company / working team - may affect SC. When planning a game it is easy to ignore the impact of little very time consuming mundane things such as payroll, taxes, contracting, hiring...

Not saying that Chris Roberts is not up to the task - hell, if he half the manager/CEO as he is a salesman he is more than up for the job. Just it is quite more comfortable and effective to already have a working company to base yourself, even if you need to upscale it a bit, than to create one from the scratch.
 
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why do people think space sim began with WC,... this was just roberts copying elite...
he's lived off the back off copying elite the whole time; and the younger generation have no clue.

Elite was THE original sandbox space sim game.. IT all started here; sandbox wasnt even a term, no-one knew at the time what to classify the game as.

This is mostly due to Elite being a British franchise and most of the marketing for it being focused on Europe (it was originally released for the BBC Micro, after all). Most American gamers have never heard of it. To us, WC was the first space game to have a major impact.
 
I think if I was in CR's situation I would stop making stretch goals.

We have been lucky in that respect. I think ED has set to task better than SC possibly helped by marketing at least stopping at kick start end. Marketing seems still very central to SC. At some point you just have to stop taking on new ideas and just go for it.

In that respect I really like the layouts of what is going to happen with universe hyperspace etc... It is detailed and coherent. I actually don't feel I could add anything constructive.

Sure I could give them ideas - but ideas really aren't what they need. Consistent implementation is where a lot of the magic happens and no end of consultation helps with that.
 
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