Buff the Traders

[Han Brannigan]

Only thing I could really complain about is the fact that a python has more cargo capacity than a type 7. Considering the type 7 is almost as long (81.6L vs 87.9L), about as wide (56.1W vs 58.1W) but 7 meters higher (25.4H vs 18.0H) and box shaped vs the python's wedge shape it's a little silly. And don't bring up the price argument, I'm talking basic logic here:

This + as it stands right now the best trader ( Conda ) is not a trader at all. Another fix ( at least for the latter part ) would be a ship comparable to the Conda in price but with a bigger space ( Panther Clipper ).
In my mind ideally Traders are the best for trading bulk goods ( which should take a bigger place in trading then it does now imo ) and multiroles to trade the expensive stuff ( ideally protected by fighters or/and in convois ). That is my ideal. To reach it Piracy (NPC that is) should be more prevalent my ideas on that are found in thise thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=144707&highlight=. On the other hand traders of cheap bulk stuff should be better of with pure trading ships.
Don't get me wrong when I write I'd like it means literally I would like it to be not a PC form of I need, I demand ore somesuch.

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Oh geez. You really think stopping at a station and refueling is efficient? As opposed to... I don't know, not doing that?

And, 2 hours from ASP to Clipper huh? OK. You just get the Baron rank, how? And you get a pretty crappola trading ship until you kit it up.

Give me a break here.

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I read them. They just don't make much sense.

Your reading comprehension seriously sucks as can be witnessed by your statement towards what Eagle Eye wrote. Anyway you have been added to my ignore list.

 

[Xananan]

I suppose this is a reasonable argument, but we have no idea how these ships are structured. They have different manufacturers and are meant for different purposes.

To say that the T7 isn't as efficiently built as a Python is correct, but that means Lakon makes crappola ships. (don't talk about the ASP, Lakon stole the design.)

This is supposed to be fun. Enjoy it and work around the idiosyncrasies.

Considering the Type 7 has, at the very least, a similar volume to the Python (if not a good bit larger considering the measurements, as I've stated above), yet can carry about 60t less, that is a little hard to work around in my head, I'll have to be honest.

 

[Han Brannigan]

Fine as they are. It's very easy to talk about buffing small shops and forgetting the huge cost difference bet them and larger ones

True - but its m,ore about the feeling you get then a real balance issue. Also at a certain point money is not the issue anymore.

 

[cpy]

I wish i could have 3x T9 as my escort, so you could own more than 1 ship and rest of them are NPC driven. Make your own squad.
How does profit sharing works in wings? I never played ED with anyone in the wing.

 

[Petersen]

It is all about internal compartments and ship sizes. T7 is a relatively small box, and looks smaller than a Python, so how on earth it can should be able to carry 350-400t or cargo? That's impossible.
Anaconda can carry that much cargo as it has so many internal compartments. T9 is about 25% unbalanced here but it is again all about internal compartments.

Then ships need to have advantages for their role. Like ships designed for cargo-hauling can fit cargo racks one class higher than the class of the internal compartment. Ships designed for exploration should have lower scan times and higher jump ranges. Something like that.

The OP has a point, there's little reason to invest in a cargo ship when you could buy a multi-role ship that can do the same job just as well, then refit itself to perform a totally different role.

 

[JughedJones]

This + as it stands right now the best trader ( Conda ) is not a trader at all. Another fix ( at least for the latter part ) would be a ship comparable to the Conda in price but with a bigger space ( Panther Clipper ).
In my mind ideally Traders are the best for trading bulk goods ( which should take a bigger place in trading then it does now imo ) and multiroles to trade the expensive stuff ( ideally protected by fighters or/and in convois ). That is my ideal. To reach it Piracy (NPC that is) should be more prevalent my ideas on that are found in thise thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=144707&highlight=. On the other hand traders of cheap bulk stuff should be better of with pure trading ships.
Don't get me wrong when I write I'd like it means literally I would like it to be not a PC form of I need, I demand ore somesuch.

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Your reading comprehension seriously sucks as can be witnessed by your statement towards what Eagle Eye wrote. Anyway you have been added to my ignore list.

Alright. You guys enjoy tilting at windmills. I suppose the Clipper's fuel tank makes it a great trading ship.

2 hours from ASP to Clipper is totally reasonable. As is 4 hours from Python to Anaconda.

I don't know why I'm debating game mechanics with power levelers such as yourselves.

 

[Han Brannigan]

I wish i could have 3x T9 as my escort, so you could own more than 1 ship and rest of them are NPC driven. Make your own squad.
How does profit sharing works in wings? I never played ED with anyone in the wing.

You get 5% of the earnings of your wing mate if I am correct ( as this is not paid by your wing mate but by the 'bank' I do not really think the implementation is very immersive )

 

[cpy]

You get 5% of the earnings of your wing mate if I am correct ( as this is not paid by your wing mate but by the 'bank' I do not really think the implementation is very immersive )

Game should be fun first, realistic later? 5% of whole cargo you sell or just pure profit? 5% from pure profit is not enough to even cover old fuel cost lol.

 

[Pendra]

Even if it is only on profit, a T9 trade wing will earn you insane amount of extra wing money. Not to mention the wing trade exploit.

 

[Han Brannigan]

Game should be fun first, realistic later? 5% of whole cargo you sell or just pure profit? 5% from pure profit is not enough to even cover old fuel cost lol.

5% of profit ( still makes sense bc it is not meant being used with NPC wingmates ( you can't even get those atm ) but when teaming up with other PCs ).

 

[Xananan]

It is all about internal compartments and ship sizes. T7 is a relatively small box, and looks smaller than a Python, so how on earth it can should be able to carry 350-400t or cargo? That's impossible.
Anaconda can carry that much cargo as it has so many internal compartments. T9 is about 25% unbalanced here but it is again all about internal compartments.

Yeah no kidding it's about internals, that's not up to debate here.

Just logically the T7 has more volume than the Python, it doesn't make sense. Even if you ignore the T7's enitre aft engine bay and only take what seems to be the bulky cargo part, it's about as voluminous as a full Python. Yet the python gets 60t more cargo space?



If anything the T7 needs another Class 6 internal to at least bring it up to the same kind of cargo space as the python, let's be honest.

 

[Han Brannigan]

Game should be fun first, realistic later?

More realism = more immersion = more fun. Thats how it works for me. Elite is already dumbed down enough what with its undangerous AI Pilots.

 

[tdshooter]

The T9 doesnt carry about as much as a conda it carries alot more also seems like you didnt take pricing into account the conda costs about the same as 2 T9's would

 

[Han Brannigan]

The T9 doesnt carry about as much as a conda it carries alot more

No. This is plain wrong. 10% is not a lot more

also seems like you didnt take pricing into account the conda costs about the same as 2 T9's would

And? Can you pilot two T9s at the same time?

 

[TheLoneTrucker]

Only thing I could really complain about is the fact that a python has more cargo capacity than a type 7. Considering the type 7 is almost as long (81.6L vs 87.9L), about as wide (56.1W vs 58.1W) but 7 meters higher (25.4H vs 18.0H) and box shaped vs the python's wedge shape it's a little silly. And don't bring up the price argument, I'm talking basic logic here:

View attachment 37670

Another thing that's a bit annoying is the absence of a potential Type 8 to fill the huge gap between the 17M cr Type 7 and the 73M cr Type 9. One would think theres a market there for Lakon. I can almost understand making the trading grind to the conda take as long as it does makes sense in a way, but logically this oversight is a bit odd.

I do agree with upping the jump ranges of trading ships by giving them a tier higher FSD's, that would at least make the T9 managable. The fact that it gets the same class FSD as the 600 tons lighter Anaconda is a little more than ridiculous and pretty much makes it obsolete. The ~50t extra amounts to about 75k cr decent one way haul, but considering the fact you have to make approximately 1-2 extra jumps VS the conda, 13LY vs 20, not to mention the snails pace of the T9 (130-200 m/s vs the conda with 180-240, and both are running class 7 thrusters with an optimal weight of 1620t, the conda gets a bigger bonus) and the fact that the T9 behaves about as well as a brick on ice.


As it stands, as many of you may know, the conda is just the better trading ship when it comes down to it.
It's faster, more manouverable, jumps further, has about 3-5 times the shield strengh on a class 4 shield vs a 5 class on the T9 and only carries about 50 tons less if you want a shield with your T9 (which you really, really do).

You can't compare hauling cargo in ED to real life. It gives me a headache every time I try, considering I'm a trucker IRL. There are things done in ED that don't make any sense when it comes to freight. I just accept it and truck on.

 

[Pendra]

Hey, care to compare it for me? I'm no truck driver and I can only imagine what it is like. I'm pretty interested to see a real comparison talking out of real experience.
You can do it in PM, if you wish.

 

[TheLoneTrucker]

Yeah no kidding it's about internals, that's not up to debate here.

Just logically the T7 has more volume than the Python, it doesn't make sense. Even if you ignore the T7's enitre aft engine bay and only take what seems to be the bulky cargo part, it's about as voluminous as a full Python. Yet the python gets 60t more cargo space?

View attachment 37673

If anything the T7 needs another Class 6 internal to at least bring it up to the same kind of cargo space as the python, let's be honest.

I hate making up reasons for ED but perhaps it boils down to structural integrity and the fact that the Python has a stronger space frame than the T7. So while the T7 has all that space. It doesn't have the frame strength to handle the same amount of tonnage that the python can handle.

You wouldn't stick a 100 ton steel plate on a trailer only rated for 50 tons even though a 100 ton steel plate might fit on a trailer only rated for 50 tons. Bad things would happen.

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Hey, care to compare it for me? I'm no truck driver and I can only imagine what it is like. I'm pretty interested to see a real comparison talking out of real experience.
You can do it in PM, if you wish.

Simply put, Players are looking at the size of the vehicle and not taking into consideration what the vehicle is actually rated for. If you want more information, please be more specific.

 

[Han Brannigan]

I hate making up reasons for ED but perhaps it boils down to structural integrity and the fact that the Python has a stronger space frame than the T7. So while the T7 has all that space. It doesn't have the frame strength to handle the same amount of tonnage that the python can handle.

You wouldn't stick a 100 ton steel plate on a trailer only rated for 50 tons even though a 100 ton steel plate might fit on a trailer only rated for 50 tons. Bad things would happen.

Then why make it so big in the first place? Unfortunately all things have the same mass per unit off used space as it is now otherwise the T7 should be able to transport a whole lot more Tea trhen the Python while the latter might be able to carry more Gold. Maybe they want to change that in the future and then thats all that has to be said about that.

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Hey, care to compare it for me? I'm no truck driver and I can only imagine what it is like. I'm pretty interested to see a real comparison talking out of real experience.
You can do it in PM, if you wish.

I second that request.

 

[Ancipital]

It is all about internal compartments and ship sizes. T7 is a relatively small box, and looks smaller than a Python, so how on earth it can should be able to carry 350-400t or cargo? That's impossible.
Anaconda can carry that much cargo as it has so many internal compartments. T9 is about 25% unbalanced here but it is again all about internal compartments.

I think a lot of people mostly feel like the T9 needs a bit more jump range- the cargo capacity isn't terrible for such an expensive pure-play cargo hulk.

You can't compare hauling cargo in ED to real life. It gives me a headache every time I try, considering I'm a trucker IRL. There are things done in ED that don't make any sense when it comes to freight. I just accept it and truck on.

Yeah, in reality, you always honk the horn before engaging the Friendship Drive, amirite?

 

[TheLoneTrucker]

Yeah, in reality, you always honk the horn before engaging the Friendship Drive, amirite?

Sure, I also honk a few times before i back up.

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I second that request.

I say trucking in real life doesn't compare to trucking in ED and two of you need an explanation? All i can say is, lol.

Sorry I'm in the states but since you want reading material, here you go. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trucking_industry_in_the_United_States