Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Jockey79]

I've already mentioned the griefing that goes on in Open. Hopefully the 1.3 will solve a lot of that.

Oh, you'd better go swat up on the old thread - the Open folks around here are adamant that no griefing goes on in Open, they'll string you up for saying that it does

 

[NeilF]

Is it really different? Your group of players are unlikely ever to meet the Xbox or PS4 players (as crossplay is uncommon between PC and consoles) but the same BGS, CGs and Power Plays are being affected by all players in whatever mode on whichever platform.

It's utterly different. In Online play, if I am trying to get goods to station X, which is being blockaded by another Power, I stand to be "greeted" by any enemy CMDR in my instance.

Players over in other countries almost certainly won't fit into this "instance" but undoubtably some CMDRs (elsewhere) will.

The exact same rule will almost certainly apply to any XBone/PS4 players...

But the crux of the matter is, choose SOLO, problem solved. Instant immunity from any CMDRs getting in your way!

If results are all that matter (rather than fun) that would suggest that it has become less of a game to some and more of a "task".

Consider community goals that have already come and gone - Did we not see huge numbers of CMDRs putting some considerable effort into applying their time/effort into meeting those goals?

I'm fairly certain, if for example a Powerplay goal is trading related, a huge swathe of CMDRs will almost certainly be in Solo. Why? Because it's their preference, or because it's safer?

Answer honestly now? And you don't see this as a bit of an issue or a shame?

 

[SteveLaw]

Or, they get bored with Solo and leave the game. People aren't always logical.

Perhaps, or perhaps they won't feel like they are losing out at all and actually play more. People aren't always the same.

 

[DarkWalker]

While the introduction of PowerPlay will give meaning to player interactions, I expect that increased interaction will lead to both more positive and more negative interactions rather than just more positive ones as you suggest. It comes down to what exactly is meant by "positive" in the context of player interaction, I suppose.

Very. Interactions that some players here, such as all those that enjoy the PvP pirate play and the players that enjoy setting up or trying to run a PvP blockade, see as positive for both sides, I see as negative instead. Or, at least, I see them as negative if they are either forced or strongly encouraged (through greater rewards, for example).

And what if they don't balance each other out? What if one side has more solo than the other? They have the better chance still no?

With open you can use proper offense and defense to counter it.

Which is exactly what many of us don't want. Using offense and defense to counter it means forcing everyone taking part into engaging in PvP. It means one player getting to dictate how others play.

Some players greatly enjoy that, I get it; but for other players, players that the game has been specifically advertised to due to its guarantee that we have absolute control over who we meet, that forced PvP is an immense drawback, perhaps large enough to simply make the game not worth playing.

Losing out on fun interaction.

Fun is subjective. For me, losing the forced PvP means that the game immediately becomes far more fun and engaging.

 

[NeilF]

All of this leads to the need to have Elite NPCs. Because then the "it's safer" consideration would be removed from the equation.

True, but we're basically nigh on six months or a year in (depending on what's you're counting), and I think we can all agree Solo is (currently) far far safer than Online? Powerplay will be here in a couple of weeks, so what's going to be different?

So I'll be extremely surprised if we don't see countless CMDRs duck into Solo primarily because it makes them simply safer/more effective. This in itself is not a bad thing, but when it's supposedly for tasks tied up with community outcomes it seems frankly like a mechanic gone somewhat awry? Don't play in the community, as you can have a greater effect in the community...

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Which is exactly what many of us don't want. Using offense and defense to counter it means forcing everyone taking part into engaging in PvP. It means one player getting to dictate how others play.

Some players greatly enjoy that, I get it; but for other players, players that the game has been specifically advertised to due to its guarantee that we have absolute control over who we meet, that forced PvP is an immense drawback, perhaps large enough to simply make the game not worth playing.
.

And I'm fine with there being no pvp for some. Not everyone needs to play open. I just don't like solo being the path of no resistance, not even least resistance. Absolutely none.

I'd support tougher npcs and npc blockades or pirates in hotspot systems. For example, lave is dangerous in open yet nothing in solo. The same for community goals.

You'd still not have any pvp to deal with, but it would be a hotspot/ temporary anarchy. Even tho npcs will never be close to as deadly as a player, it would still be resistance and someone trying to stop the goal.

 

[Aimeryan]

Are you trying to infer that those playing Solo / Private groups should not be allowed to because other players "know what's good for them"? We have all been told to "play the game how you want to" - that does not mean "play the game how other players want you to".

It's a game - people play games to have fun (i.e. their kind of fun). If it stops being fun they will probably stop playing.

No, I am inferring that as long as there are two options, one being cake the other being sprouts, the vast majority of people will choose cake. Long-term satisfaction be damned.

I am suggesting that Powerplay Solo and Open be separate, so that those that can not resist the allure of easy Solo don't have an impact on the Powerplay of Open - I am not saying take the options away. The alternative is that Powerplay will be largely decided by Solo players and Open will carry on being the place for griefing.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Sigh... why do people keep on trying to tell others they don't even know that they know better what they like and not?

No I would not find Open more Fun, thank you. You don't know better who I am then I do, how anybody can think that he knows better what some stranger on the Internet likes and not is so silly I can't even understand it.

Sure, maybe it is easier because theres no PvP for me (which only counts in a very small number of areas tough), but difficult is not the problem here, its that I don't like PvP and other people interrupting me when I'm playing (includes everything, even some nice guy dropping 500t Palladium in front of me and saying "here, a gif for you").

And even if "I want it more easy" is the reason for some to go into solo... so what? Really, I don't get it, some person somwhere on the World you don't know has it easier then you playing the same Game, whats the deal? I really don't get it, whats the deal with wanting to control so much the experience other people you don't know have with the Game? Is it some sort of Videogame-God-Complex?

 

[Aimeryan]

Sigh... why do people keep on trying to tell others they don't even know that they know better what they like and not?

No I would not find Open more Fun, thank you. You don't know better who I am then I do, how anybody can think that he knows better what some stranger on the Internet likes and not is so silly I can't even understand it.

Sure, maybe it is easier because theres no PvP for me (which only counts in a very small number of areas tough), but difficult is not the problem here, its that I don't like PvP and other people interrupting me when I'm playing (includes everything, even some nice guy dropping 500t Palladium in front of me and saying "here, a gif for you").

And even if "I want it more easy" is the reason for some to go into solo... so what? Really, I don't get it, some person somwhere on the World you don't know has it easier then you playing the same Game, whats the deal? I really don't get it, whats the deal with wanting to control so much the experience other people you don't know have with the Game? Is it some sort of Videogame-God-Complex?

Is this directed at me? It doesn't really match, but you didn't have a quote attached and it is after my post.

 

[NeilF]

I do wonder though .... now there are a couple of hot spots with community goals. And of course they're buzzing with lots of CMDRs (all sulking) With Powerplay, there will be many more. So CMDRs will be more spread out, which will make Open less of a pickle and may cause less people to opt for Solo when they see Open is doable.

You have to also take into account that for less skilled pilots (yours truly) being shot down on a regular basis does tend to get a little weary after a while. So it's all fun and games for the skilled aces amongst us, but maybe not so for the slow and elderly (again ... yours truly). I'll be honest, against CMDRs who've been shooting at things since day 1 I stand little chance of beating them. And I haven't got the drive to spend the time to get my skills up to par to be able to go toe to toe.

So for me, check if Powerplay goal in Open is doable (which means only occasionally getting my behind handed to me). If it is, I will play in Open. If it isn't ... am I supposed to be a good little lemming and fly into certain death again and again?

edit: Another thing that irritates me as voiced by Aimeryan: "those that can not resist the allure of easy Solo" strongly implies it's a decision made out of laziness or greed.

I see it as a bit of a two edge sword... As I've posted elsewhere if you consider just trying to go to a conflict zone to fight other commanders, how hard it is at the moment! I've tried and it's very hard to ever find a CMDR in a combat zone... Back in Alpha/Beta when there was Eranin, you were fairly assured of turning up there and being able to enjoy some PvP fighting.

I'm hoping PP brings back this aspect of the game. ie: Two competing powers are both charged with going to a conflict zone and destroying as many enemy vessels as possible. Hopefully you'll then be more assured of turning up this combat zone and actually finding CMDRs there.

HOWEVER, this of course then brings into play my major concern. Why even go to the zone in Online, when you can undoubtably score more for your Power in Solo?

 

[Aimeryan]

edit: Another thing that irritates me as voiced by Aimeryan: "those that can not resist the allure of easy Solo" strongly implies it's a decision made out of laziness or greed.

There will be many that it is not, and that is awesome, but there will be many that it is. Personally, I'm happy to wait and see how this plays out. If Open ends up being empty with all the Powerplay happening in Solo, well maybe then something will change. Or not; we haven't had the developers say whether a strong Open is important or not.

HOWEVER, this of course then brings into play my major concern. Why even go to the zone in Online, when you can undoubtably score more for your Power in Solo?

Yup. Maybe they really do prefer Solo, and that is why everyone is going there to do Powerplay.

 

[FuzzySpider]

No, I am inferring that as long as there are two options, one being cake the other being sprouts, the vast majority of people will choose cake. Long-term satisfaction be damned.

What "long-term satisfaction" are you talking about here? This is a game, to be played and enjoyed while you are doing it.

Your overall contribution to the Elite Dangerous universe will contribute nothing to your mortgage for example.

 

[Aimeryan]

What "long-term satisfaction" are you talking about here? This is a game, to be played and enjoyed while you are doing it.

Your overall contribution to the Elite Dangerous universe will contribute nothing to your mortgage for example.

The same kind you lose out on by cheating. By taking the easy option you miss out on the challenge.

 

[NeilF]

Yup. Maybe they really do prefer Solo, and that is why they are going there to do Powerplay.

Possibly... But I'd suggest many players looking at a Powerplay goal will simply choose Solo to be safer and more ultimately more effective towards it. Which as I've said before feels odd... Tuck yourself away from the community to have more effect on the community?

Are you suggesting Traders trying to get to a station blockaded by another Power won't be tempted to choose Solo instead of Online to:-
a) Get more CR for themselves.
b) Get their Power more results.

 

[Aimeryan]

Possibly... But I'd suggest many players looking at a Powerplay goal will simply choose Solo to be safer and more ultimately more effective towards it. Which as I've said before feels odd... Tuck yourself away from the community to have more effect on the community?

Are you suggesting Traders trying to get to a station blockaded by another Power won't be tempted to choose Solo instead of Online to:-
a) Get more CR for themselves.
b) Get their Power more results.

Note the rolleyes emote (its sarcasm!).

 

[NeilF]

Note the rolleyes emote (its sarcasm!).

Oops! Soz

Can you imagine in my proposed example... The CMDRs of this Power performing the blockage are going to all lengths to do a good job... Taking it in shifts to ensure a constant blockade is maintained with a massive force of CMDRs.... Meanwhile a virtual tunnel leading underneath them is crammed with CMDRs from the other Power happily going to and fro trading completely unseen

 

[Aimeryan]

Oops! Soz

Can you imagine in my proposed example... The CMDRs of this Power performing the blockage are going to all lengths to do a good job... Taking it in shifts to ensure a constant blockade is maintained with a massive force of CMDRs.... Meanwhile a virtual tunnel leading underneath them is crammed with CMDRs from the other Power happily going to and fro trading completely unseen

It would make it all seem a bit pointless, yeah.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Oops! Soz

Can you imagine in my proposed example... The CMDRs of this Power performing the blockage are going to all lengths to do a good job... Taking it in shifts to ensure a constant blockade is maintained with a massive force of CMDRs.... Meanwhile a virtual tunnel leading underneath them is crammed with CMDRs from the other Power happily going to and fro trading completely unseen

But don't you see, it's fair because you might have people doing it for your side. I mean, maybe, possibly, who knows.

 

[Arioch]

Can you imagine in my proposed example... The CMDRs of this Power performing the blockage are going to all lengths to do a good job... Taking it in shifts to ensure a constant blockade is maintained with a massive force of CMDRs.... Meanwhile a virtual tunnel leading underneath them is crammed with CMDRs from the other Power happily going to and fro trading completely unseen

You do realise how Peer-to-Peer networking actually works? Any one not in your instance is in that big invisible tunnel. Good luck trying to blockade anything

 

[NeilF]

You do realise how Peer-to-Peer networking actually works? Any one not in your instance is in that big invisible tunnel. Good luck trying to blockade anything

I do...

Do you understand the two fundamental differences in the supposed scenario:-
1) Playing Online and risking being interdicted by any CMDR in your instance.
2) Playing Solo and never being interdicted ever by any CMDR.

Can you see how one is clearly (currently) advantageous if you're interesting in results. Powerplay I would suggest is primarily about "results"! If you're doing something for a Power and want your time/effort to count for as much as it can, almost certainly you'll be better of in Solo I would suggest... How is that ideal for what is suppose effecting the community?



So my somewhat exagerated example stands really. It's entirely possible one Power's CMDRs could blockade a station as much as they like, not see a single CMDR from the other Power, and then at the end of the time period see they failed to prevent the desired goods reaching the location.

Now of course my example is somewhat rediculous as not all CMDRs would go into Solo, and we don't even know if my proposed blockade scenario (or anything like it) will feature in PP. But the crux of the problem stands IMHO. In short I suspect a lot of aspects of Powerplay will reward CMDRs who duck into Solo, which seems contrary to ideal.