Not My Python

[Matt-t-b]

Hi All,

first time post post so please be gentle. Okay so after 200 hours and several CGs I finally got my Python today and kitted it out with a fairly standard package. I then went out to a couple of RES's and tried my hand seeing I was used to the Vulture. Blating masters, experts etc pythons and Annie's my confidence soared. So I thought you know what it multi role let's give it a mining laser and a bit more cargo ( stupidly dropping myself below my insurance rebuy ). Off to Styx to the promise of Palladium and Platinum from asteroids near the sun.

This is the point it went wrong no RES no asteroids so I thought I'd just explore the system. So between planets cue interdiction, not worried I submit knowing I can pretty much handle myself of here in the cold depths of space ( unless a swarm of Eagles and sidewinders hit me of course ( I mean 5 plus ) ). Hmmm am getting hit from 5k out and my shields are going down rapidly ok bit one sided start up frame shift drive. Ok frame shift drive very slow and am now getting damaged. Ok canopy now gone and sub 25% but finally in frame shift. Hang on hull integrity still decreasing and now ship destroyed!!!

Hmmm not enough credits to rebuy but hang on I could always go back to the Sidewinder!! Come on two bugs hitting me simultaneously:

1. Ship being hit from 5k out
2. Ship hull integrity failing whilst in frame shift whilst 725ls from nearest station.

obviouly the moral to this story is don't forget the rebuy. However this situation definantly sucks and yes have raised a support ticket. Rant over.

 

[Aleksej]

Firstly, slow initiation of the frame shift drive is caused by a mass-lock from another ship. The mass-lock's distance is 3km, which means that there were the ships within this range. I think that only several ships can mass-lock a Python and only 2 of them are faster, and these are FDL and Clipper. Anaconda and a Federal Dropship also mass-lock a Python but are slower. However, this is actually so if you have A6 thrusters, otherwise A-rated Anaconda might be able to catch up with a Python. Taking into account all these - you were hit from less than 3km, and naturally this is not a bug.

Secondly, if you are mass-locked your ship might build heat, which can go to very large levels, this is the cause of taking damage when you were in SC. Also if a Python was heated by mass-lock means that you have a pretty basic Python, i.e. not upgraded power plant. And naturally this was not a bug - your ship was destroyed by large heat levels.

Thirdly, your balance did not allow you to rebuy the ship. As from the previous points it is clear that you did not upgrade the Python for fighting if at all - you rushed to get it as soon as you could without taking into account the consequences of not upgrading it and not having enough balance to cover insurance.

Conclusion: it looks like these were all your own mistakes that led to such an outcome and this is nothing to do with bugs.

 

[Matt-t-b]

Firstly, slow initiation of the frame shift drive is caused by a mass-lock from another ship. The mass-lock's distance is 3km, which means that there were the ships within this range. I think that only several ships can mass-lock a Python and only 2 of them are faster, and these are FDL and Clipper. Anaconda and a Federal Dropship also mass-lock a Python but are slower. However, this is actually so if you have A6 thrusters, otherwise A-rated Anaconda might be able to catch up with a Python. Taking into account all these - you were hit from less than 3km, and naturally this is not a bug.

Secondly, if you are mass-locked your ship might build heat, which can go to very large levels, this is the cause of taking damage when you were in SC. Also if a Python was heated by mass-lock means that you have a pretty basic Python, i.e. not upgraded power plant. And naturally this was not a bug - your ship was destroyed by large heat levels.

Thirdly, your balance did not allow you to rebuy the ship. As from the previous points it is clear that you did not upgrade the Python for fighting if at all - you rushed to get it as soon as you could without taking into account the consequences of not upgrading it and not having enough balance to cover insurance.

Conclusion: it looks like these were all your own mistakes that led to such an outcome and this is nothing to do with bugs.

Thank you for your response however my ship wasn't frame locked as was able to enter frame drive. Opposing ship was a Python not anything bigger, and heat build up was not a factor.

My power plant is a B7 not a basic model as I followed the rule of the best I could afford. Hence no novice mistakes ( bar the not enough for insurance ).

I realised after posting this it should have been in a discussion rather than in support as it was a rant for being silly about the insurance not for the fact of the bugs which effected me. Please don't judge me as never playing elite before after 200 hrs I broke my milk teeth on the original and could probably fly circles round most elites commanders of this game ( not to blow my own trumpet ). If you wish to moderate then please do. If you wish to assume then don't.

For future info please read post.

attacked by python
frame shift activated but seemed to take an excessively long time to charge up
damage was being sustained in frame shift for no reason!!

Many thanks for your reply

 

[Aleksej]

Thank you for your response however my ship wasn't frame locked as was able to enter frame drive. Opposing ship was a Python not anything bigger, and heat build up was not a factor.

My power plant is a B7 not a basic model as I followed the rule of the best I could afford. Hence no novice mistakes ( bar the not enough for insurance ).

I realised after posting this it should have been in a discussion rather than in support as it was a rant for being silly about the insurance not for the fact of the bugs which effected me. Please don't judge me as never playing elite before after 200 hrs I broke my milk teeth on the original and could probably fly circles round most elites commanders of this game ( not to blow my own trumpet ). If you wish to moderate then please do. If you wish to assume then don't.

For future info please read post.

attacked by python
frame shift activated but seemed to take an excessively long time to charge up
damage was being sustained in frame shift for no reason!!

Many thanks for your reply

This:

frame shift activated but seemed to take an excessively long time to charge up

is caused by a mass-lock and one Python can mass-lock another Python and the mass factor in this case is 20, which is the second largest mass factor in the game currently (the largest one is inhibited by Anacondas only). The larger is the mass factor the longer it takes to charge your FSD. The longer it charges the more heat might build up.

Ok frame shift drive very slow and am now getting damaged. Ok canopy now gone and sub 25% but finally in frame shift. Hang on hull integrity still decreasing and now ship destroyed!!!

These is what might easily be caused by overheating. Especially, given the fact that you were flying away from the ship attacking you and it could not hit your canopy.

Can you explain how can this be interpreted?

my Python today and kitted it out with a fairly standard package

Standard package is usually the way it is equipped by default.

Then before blaming someone in not reading your post carefully - the word "Python" is mentioned twice in your OP. The first one to state that you have bought it, the second time that you did not have any issues with them. So how was it possible to assume that you were attacked by another Python?

damage was being sustained in frame shift for no reason!!

If you sustain damage in FSD it can only be caused by one factor - ship overheating.

My power plant is a B7 not a basic model as I followed the rule of the best I could afford. Hence no novice mistakes ( bar the not enough for insurance ).

Well, I'd say that you are totally wrong here, this was actually a novice mistake. Buying what you could afford left you without enough balance to cover the most important thing - the insurance.

Given the limited information that you have provided - the only thing that was possible to do is to assume. Moreover, I am pretty sure that all my assumptions were correct as explained above. Everything mentioned are the core game mechanics. You did not know that a Python can inhibit mass-lock on another Python, which significantly increases FSD initiation (you did not know this as well). You also thought that it is impossible to sustain damage is FSD, which is not true as explained above.

P.S. Moderators can participate in the discussions if they wish so.
P.P.S. Moving thread into discussions.

 

[Morbad]

Thank you for your response however my ship wasn't frame locked as was able to enter frame drive. Opposing ship was a Python not anything bigger, and heat build up was not a factor.

A Python can mass lock another Python, which means using frame shift to enter SC will take an order of magnitude longer.

Please don't judge me as never playing elite before after 200 hrs I broke my milk teeth on the original and could probably fly circles round most elites commanders of this game ( not to blow my own trumpet ).

Despite this self assessment, you seem completely unaware of several basic and relevant game mechanisms that I would have expected anyone able to afford a Python to have had experience with.

attacked by python

Which explains the damage you were taking.

frame shift activated but seemed to take an excessively long time to charge up

Explained by being within range of another Python.

damage was being sustained in frame shift for no reason!!

Probably latency, or heat.

 

[Ydiss]

What you describe explains exactly that you were mass disrupted by the npc python. Mass disruption is different to mass lock (some call them the same thing). If a ship of certain size is within 3km of yours, its mass inhibits your FSD, causing it to take much longer to charge. This causes a lot of heat build up. And given it was also shooting you, both these facts point to it being within 3km range.

Finally, it's well known that being interdicted drops both ships well within range of engagement (again, this is 3km). The way you describe it, you dropped into normal space and suddenly you're being shot at from "5km".

Given it's common knowledge that this last doesn't happen, it's common knowledge that mass disruption occurs within 3km and you say you're being shot, which is again known to only occur within 3km, all of the information you give us suggests something of what you say isn't accurate.

Now, you've said you're experienced, but this isn't supported further by your lack of knowledge as to what mass disruption is, and have then argued that the explanation given to you by an experienced player cannot be correct. And your description of events has inconsistencies.

I'd have a really good think about what really happened, be honest with yourself, realise this was just you rushing to fly an expensive ship and recklessly throw yourself into fights, which resulted in you being attacked by a superior npc that nailed your shields, mass inhibited you, continued to do you lots of damage and also over heat your system when you jumped.

Get back into your pilot seat and consider the lesson learned. Next time you have enough for a combat python, think again, save up at least another 20m, then if you get into a difficult situation and need to jump, get 3km distance first (easily done, npcs are not aggressive in giving chase).

 

[Han Brannigan]

OP: Goes on about how experienced he is yet:
- forgets to keep enough for re-buy
- gets shot down by an NPC while in a Python.

This does not compute

 

[epoch71]

Whenever I'm in a situation where I'm mass locked by a hostile vessel, I always cancel the FSD charge until I'm 3KM clear. This keeps the ship cooler, and (importantly, for me) allows me to focus on getting clear and not having to panic about being attacked and worry about the slow FSD charge. Once clear, fire up the FSD and off you go.

 

[EvulKlowne]

To negate mass disruption by another ship, you could've targeted another system hence allowing you to jump immediately. But as an experienced player I guess you already knew that... just forgot about it somehow

 

[CMDR Nick]

You really goofed up there big time. I hope my genuine ticket, regarding my Python being destroyed on game load, isn't held up by your 'I goofed up' one. In my case, I'm just after the insurance money back, as I was fully insured.

 

[xslam]

How did you lost the hull integrity while being in supercruise? Overheat?

 

[CMDR Nick]

>>Mass disruption is different to mass lock

What is the difference?

 

[PhazonAran]

>>Mass disruption is different to mass lock

What is the difference?

When Mass locked (by a station or a capital ship), you're not able to activate your FSD. The Mass disruption is when your FSD is taking longer to charge because a ship nearby is disturbing it.

 

[Von Shadow]

Mass Lock will 100% prevent the FSD from even operating ... when you're in an asteroid belt, near a station etc... you have a lit-up 'Mass Locked' indicator - you will also get a message in the right hand box saying the same
Mass Disruption is when a similar or larger ship is within 3km of your ship and it prevents your FSD from charging at normal rate .... can take a minute or more if you cannot get our of range. You will see a message in the right box saying Mass Disrution factor: x

 

[Whiterose]

Standard outfitting sometimes isnt good enough. If you run the risk of no insurance you have to pay the consequences. We all do it, or have done it.

 

[hoppingdeth]

Sounds like the OP was so sure of his own skillz - he died..... poorly, and we've all died poorly at some point.

 

[wenkman]

Overheating is not the only chance to die in SC!

he could have a hold full of Unknown Artifacts eating his ship up.

 

[CMDR Nick]

Mass Lock will 100% prevent the FSD from even operating ... when you're in an asteroid belt, near a station etc... you have a lit-up 'Mass Locked' indicator - you will also get a message in the right hand box saying the same
Mass Disruption is when a similar or larger ship is within 3km of your ship and it prevents your FSD from charging at normal rate .... can take a minute or more if you cannot get our of range. You will see a message in the right box saying Mass Disrution factor: x

Odd that the laws of physics in the Elite galaxy puts a 3km limit on this dubious effect, rather than some boring old inverse square relationship or the like.

 

[[HJ]-RedRaven]

The OP isn't stupid; he just got caught out. I've been in very nearly the same situation. There are always going to be moments when you go boom and you're not really expecting it.

Flying without enough for insurance, however, well... don't do that.

 

[Von Shadow]

Odd that the laws of physics in the Elite galaxy puts a 3km limit on this dubious effect, rather than some boring old inverse square relationship or the like.

Can't really complain about physics reality when dealing with FTL drives

Maybe its as simple as the FSD 'bubble' is 3KM in size