Why do you call Destruction of Property Murder?

[Alex Brentnall]

Moving this away from a lengthy legal battle I just want to throw a few words to rattle around this thread like a grenade with the pin taken out.

It's probably called "murder" since most people would question it if the text was "destruction of property". Congratulations for being the opposite and not being the lowest common denominator.


Edit: If it were cloning you're actions since last visiting a station (such as kills for pilots ranking) should be wiped which they are not. I could go with an energy weapon ship and carefully grind to elite combat without re-supplying (assuming fuel etc is sufficient). If I then died I would remain Elite.

 

[Loskene]

Hm, taking the NPC comms as a reference - they do clearly state "Die!" or "This isn't worth dying for!".

Hence, we must assume death is actually a concept (plus there's never any ejection sequence where you see yourself getting ejected from your ship - it clearly blows up right around you).
The "respawn" at the nearest Station I'd therefor have to assume is indeed some form of cloning or reviving (of whatever form).

Death is still a thing, however it's changed over the years since everyone started downloading their mind into a fresh body. Death is used more like a slap on the wrist and a dent in your credit balance, rather than the end all and be all of your existence in the galaxy. Hence why being bad at parking = death.

 

[Midian Cabal]

Death is not the end...

[video=youtube;Ao0lyPjYQw0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao0lyPjYQw0[/video]

 

[Deleted member 38366]

-- Deleted --

 

[ianw]

See my later post, it took a while to type, as paws and keyboard don't work well together.

Arry.

Well I was referring to the legal definition of murder and even in game our character isn't actually killed (or is it - see below...) so it isn't murder but could certainly be described as attempted.


It doesn't really matter - we can agree to differ


Personally I don't favour wanton ship destruction or attempted murder in game for it's own sake - though it is clearly allowed.

Hm, taking the NPC comms as a reference - they do clearly state "Die!" or "This isn't worth dying for!".

Hence, we must assume death is actually a concept (plus there's never any ejection sequence where you see yourself getting ejected from your ship - it clearly blows up right around you).
The "respawn" at the nearest Station I'd therefor have to assume is indeed some form of cloning or reviving (of whatever form).

Of course in the game world - it's an insta-respawn where only assets (and possibly some ego ) got "murdered". But that's the game-ism compromise for playability purposes, short of an "Iron Man" mode.
Worst-case, those assets were tied to alot of work & time invested (i.e. someone gets blown without insurance or has insurance but is left critically short on Credits after the rebuy).

Someone having 20x the Rebuy stored in the Credits balance will naturally percieve and take all that differently than a "small guy" barely getting along and doing his dandest to keep i.e. his small Adder and some 10tons of Cargo alive & well.

Death is still a thing, however it's changed over the years since everyone started downloading their mind into a fresh body. Death is used more like a slap on the wrist and a dent in your credit balance, rather than the end all and be all of your existence in the galaxy. Hence why being bad at parking = death.

Come to think of it I'm not sure if our Commanders do actually bite the dust - there was meant to be an escape pod thing - but maybe that's just fudged now - I think I have seen MB refer to it as murder so unless a dev cares to clarify I will leave it there...

 

[Ydiss]

This is a classic example of a game mechanic's hand wavium explanation existing purely to keep immersion junkies happy, yet fails because the game's lore ignores the hand wavium. And that hand wavium doesn't explain how we get from where we "died" to the last station we docked at... Instantly.

It is murder. We do die. But when we die we magically respawn. There's no explanation for it. It's a game.

 

[Cosmo]

Cylon resurrection. When your ship explodes your body is killed (hence the lack of an ejection animation despite the computer's helpful suggestion), but your consciousness is transmitted back to a waiting clone body in the last starport you checked in at, using the same faster-than-light information transfer system that makes sure Galnet updates on time. I've searched far and wide and this is the only explanation that covers all the bases, and at least makes some measure of sense.

http://geekroniques.fr/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/cuve.jpg

Yeah this is the most realistic explanation.

 

[Pendra]

If it were cloning you're actions since last visiting a station (such as kills for pilots ranking) should be wiped which they are not. I could go with an energy weapon ship and carefully grind to elite combat without re-supplying (assuming fuel etc is sufficient). If I then died I would remain Elite.

I never tested, but isn't the rank advance granted after cashing in your achievement on a base?
When your ship pops, you lose all exploration data and Bounty not cashed in in a station. Looking from here, the cloning makes the most sense because you do lose the rank advancements (ie in-game experience) between your last base visit the the loss of your ship.
And in this sense it is a killing, but death has sort of lost it meaning because there are tons of backup bodies for your mind to occupy.

And resurrection is free along with a Sidewinder.
Don't like your daily job? Are you a slave?
No worry, you can live the glamorous life of a certified space pilot. Your spaceship is just an application away.
Don't hesitate kill yourself today!

 

[ianw]

This is a classic example of a game mechanic's hand wavium explanation existing purely to keep immersion junkies happy, yet fails because the game's lore ignores the hand wavium. And that hand wavium doesn't explain how we get from where we "died" to the last station we docked at... Instantly.

It is murder. We do die. But when we die we magically respawn. There's no explanation for it. It's a game.

Well something may have changed but this was the plan - I knew I didn't imagine it.

"Death Penalty Rules

• When a commander's ship receives catastrophic hull damage (breaks apart) or becomes incapable of supporting life, the commander automatically escapes via an ever-present, indestructible escape pod"

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5323

 

[Nara]

If all ships have an escape capsule and a pilot can never be killed, how can the destruction of the ship be even attempted murder?

It would be like throwing a banana at someone IRL and calling it attempted murder even though you can't be killed by a thrown banana.

The OP is right, murder isn't in the game.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

I never tested, but isn't the rank advance granted after cashing in your achievement on a base?
When your ship pops, you lose all exploration data and Bounty not cashed in in a station. Looking from here, the cloning makes the most sense because you do lose the rank advancements (ie in-game experience) between your last base visit the the loss of your ship.

All bounty, combat bonds, exploration data etc is lost.

Exploration and Trading are linked to profit so yes they have to visit stations. Combat rank is done on some formula of kills and people have reported rising in ranks whilst inside RES/CZ areas.

 

[Ydiss]

Well something may have changed but this was the plan - I knew I didn't imagine it.

"Death Penalty Rules

• When a commander's ship receives catastrophic hull damage (breaks apart) or becomes incapable of supporting life, the commander automatically escapes via an ever-present, indestructible escape pod"

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5323

I'm fully aware of this. This is exactly the hand wavium I refer to.

This is the game's way of explaining respawning. On paper it seems reasonable. But it still fails to explain how it takes a matter of seconds to reappear in the last station we docked in, even if we're 60k ly away.

And it contradicts the game's crime mechanic. There is no murder, no one dies. Given everyone knows this, it's not even attempted murder.

The only way it'll be murder is if they release the dda planned iron man group.

My point was to say it's mostly a washed out attempt to explain something that can't be explained without some hefty science fiction. And that it's not important. It's just a game and murder is a part of the game (we cannot deny that, that's also in the dda and the actual game). So you either suspend disbelief over the respawn mechanic or you suspend disbelief over the crime of murder.

I prefer the former option. And am quite happy believing that respawning is magic.

 

[Han Brannigan]

If all ships have an escape capsule and a pilot can never be killed, how can the destruction of the ship be even attempted murder?

It would be like throwing a banana at someone IRL and calling it attempted murder even though you can't be killed by a thrown banana.

The OP is right, murder isn't in the game.

1st No it would be more akin to shooting someone, wearing a ballistic vest, in the chest, with a light handgun ( what you do could/would kill him its just he has taken precautions )

2nd Its only commanders who get saved - as 90% ( at lerast ) of ships destroyed are manned by NPCs its still murder in 90% of the cases

 

[scott.dft]

If all ships have an escape capsule and a pilot can never be killed, how can the destruction of the ship be even attempted murder?

It would be like throwing a banana at someone IRL and calling it attempted murder even though you can't be killed by a thrown banana.

The OP is right, murder isn't in the game.

Unless of course you were set upon by Chuck Norris

 

[Arry]

Logically; Commanders, re-set to their last save point.

Therefore; if everything, we are and have is lost, before that point, we are 'removed', 'extinguished', 'obliterated', or what? If this happens, due to the actions of another, as a consequence of an others motives, what else can it be defined as?

Mind you, as has been stated above, the OP, is trying to sanitise, justify or even, excuse, their own actions.

Arry.

 

[pluton]

There is no Murder involved at all. Just some destruction of property.

It's curious.
A pirate in the game wants to be known as a pirate,
A bounty hunter is proud of his occupation.

But a player who plays the role of a murderer and who kills for no reason, he makes excuses.

The game says "Murder", so murder it is.

 

[Nara]

1st No it would be more akin to shooting someone, wearing a ballistic vest, in the chest, with a light handgun ( what you do could/would kill him its just he has taken precautions )

2nd Its only commanders who get saved - as 90% ( at lerast ) of ships destroyed are manned by NPCs its still murder in 90% of the cases

No, because the pilot cannot die. Infact you in RL have a higher chance of dieing from a banana strike than your ingame pilot does from ship destruction.

If death is deemed impossible then there can be no possibility for an accusation of attempt.

But if you know of someone that lost their pilot after ship destruction I'd love to hear about it

And NPCs also eject, FD just got some of the chat text wrong.

 

[Han Brannigan]

But a player who plays the role of a murderer and who kills for no reason, he makes excuses.

Don't you know he is providing a valuable service ...

 

[Commander Starcloak]

The friendly pilot pickup doesn't work because it happens instantly. Plus what if you pop 20k LY from the habited bubble? You may wait hundreds of years for someone to find you and bring you home. It very gamey.

I know. But I RP it. It's my way of explaining how I keep surviving nine fireballs and counting.

 

[Han Brannigan]

No, because the pilot cannot die. Infact you in RL have a higher chance of dieing from a banana strike than your ingame pilot does from ship destruction.

The pilot would die at a 100% rate if not for the escape pod so my example is still better as you do not need anything to protect you from the Banana.