I have to second that.
Credit Sink Discussion
- Thread starter Aussiedroid
- Start date
I have to second that.
Cmdr. Edgar has a good point.
The repairs should cost a noticeable percentage of the cost of the ship. Flying a big ship should be expensive. We need reasons for people to start using smaller ships. Right now they have no pourpose, because once you buy a big ship the maintenance costs are vitually non-existant. Kids are flying Anacondas and FDLs and Pythons ganking people just because, once you have one, flying the biggest ships in the game is almost for free (maintenance and repairs cost pocket change).
Besides damage, every module should need maintenance repairs (not just the hull); and the cost of that repairs should be a percentage of the cost of the module. Using A-rated modules should be exponentially more expensive than lower rated ones. Just like they cost a lot more to buy, they should cost a lot more to repair and maintain. A multi-millon module should not cost just a couple of thousand credits to repair from 1%, that's absurd. Killing a couple wanted Sidewinders gets you the credits to pay for that kind of repair. It doesn't make any sense.
Also, the insurance system is completely broken. How on earth can the insurance be for free, for life and always covering 95% of the cost of the ships, no matter how many times you destroy it? It's ridiculous! Why should a person who destroys their ships every single day have the same insurance benefits as a trader or an explorer who takes care not to damage his ship? What kind of simulation is this? The insurance should cost credits, it should be optional, and the cost should be calculated depending on the player's behaviour. I'll say it again: We need reasons to start using the smaller ships. And an increase in the repair costs, fuel costs, and a remake of the insurance system should give us (all of us) plenty of reasons.
TL;DR: Yes, we need more credit sinks.
- If you incentivise using smaller ships by punishing big ships, you just make some people begrudgingly not use their favourite ship until they may so annoyed with the game to just quite.
- Massive repair costs for big ships don't even incentivise using small ships, but incentivise keeping shields up at all costs. Pythons filled to the brim with shield cells, spamming them left and right and flying home to restock before they run out, that's what you'd see again. Armour upgrades, hull packages? Who cares when you spend all your earnings for just a few hits on your exposed, armoured, upgrades hull? And Vultures, there'd be even more Vultures than right now.
- Insurance is not free. If we imagine the insurance being part of the initial purchase, we can imagine the rebuy cost being the insurance fee for the next time, in advance. One may twist it around in any way, but it certainly is not free and I don't want to see the Star Citizen insurance system in ED (their planned death&insurance mechanics is what made me not back SC in the first place).
Last edited:
Please try not to twist my words. I never said anything about "punishing big ships" nor "massive repair costs". It should always be a sensible percentual of the ship you choose to fly. At that point suddenly using a smaller/cheaper ship for some tasks will start to make sense, and that is good since it will add variety to the game. And also, somehow it seems you forgot to mention the maintenance costs.
And about insurance... it seems you forgot about the mechanics change I proposed, and instead decided to argue about definitions. I don't see the point on that, besides trying to confuse people.
Last edited:
This is the only way the Insurance can make economic sense, if the purchase cost of everything is about 5 times the real cost then along with the insurance fee you could lose 6 ships before the insurance company starts to lose money and as most pilots will trash more ships early in their career when the ships are cheap then it could actually work as a profitable business proposition.
It would make sense, at least for a while, but:
As I understand it, that screen says the insurance covers 95% of the total cost of the ship. And in that case the 5% left is not the insurance fee, it's just a part not being covered. And if that's true, then the insurance IS free. I may be wrong of course.
You seem to have missed the bit where I said "if the purchase cost of everything is about 5 times the real cost"
So take an imaginary ship that costs you 50,000,000 but only cost the manufacturers 10,000,000 and the insurance company takes the other 40,000,000.
You destroy 4 ships so you've paid 50,000,000 + ( 4 x 2,500,000) = 60,000,000 for 40,000,000 worth of ships.
So unless you destroy more than 6 ships the insurers will make a profit.
I'm not saying this is the model used, it's just the only model I could come up with that would actually work given the circumstances we have.
And why they reimburse you their own profits then?
As a true Brannigan I have made it my goal to make them bleed ( or it could be that I am a lousy pilot ... )
Last edited:
That's for sure.
And I suppose further developments of the gameplay might make massive use of players' credits.
For now community goals I've seen are about fighting or trading, I suppose maybe there are also some with selling exploration data (I'm not interested in CG at the moment, I'm still building a rep in the Empire zone I chose, which suits my 'RP').
With CG's or Powerplay, why not having the opportunity to give money to a faction/power ?
I mean there already are 'give money' missions in the BB for rep increase, as there are give commodities missions.
I would not be shocked by donating credits becoming a part of the game's interactivity. Credits come from fighting, exploring and trading anyway.
Let's take the already known event of building a starport, of course one can think of just trading materials with the faction willing to build it.
Thinking of a fully player-sponsored building, I can't even imagine how expensive would be a station to build by donating the materials.
Cheers
Is the insurance part of being in the Pilot's Federation? i.e. its a union funded insurance scheme. How they make their money is another question.
IMHO what is missing is the "other" side of the economy, i.e. the funding of the Major/Minor Factions and soon the Powers. Where do they get their money from to pay out all those bounties, to run all those authority vessels and to wage all those wars? Normally those activities are funded by taxes but in ED we don't pay taxes. Another big money sink missing from ED are economic crises due to failed policies (ultimately leading to war). Also in ED there is no currency risk because the whole galaxy pays with Credits. Your investments in ships and cargo and your cash in the bank never suffer from exchange rate dynamics or inflation. The ED galaxy is like the eurozone. However, we know from the troubles with Greece that such a system leads to extra costs for taxpayers to keep weak members afloat within the currency zone.
.
So I propose to introduce taxes, economic and financial crises, defaults, devaluations, etc. For instance a faction or power that spends too much money (on waging war or trade stimulus or exploration) could decide to confiscate money from allied CMDRs to balance their budget. Or if a new ship type is introduced the price of the old ship type it replaces could be slashed (same for equipment). Falcon de Lacy could go bankrupt making your beloved Cobra unserviceable and worthless (the horror!). The possibilities are endless.
.
Such fiscal money sinks could be used to avoid everybody getting filthy rich over time. And after the introduction of Powerplay, fiscal money sinks could be used to control development of the powers to some degree. For instance by preventing an extremely aggressive Power from conquering the whole galaxy because it runs into funding problems (which it solves by confiscating it's allied CMDRs cash who then defect).
Last edited:
That's what we are talking about. Not that it's easy to make credits. It's just we have nothing to spend it on besides our ship. For those that getting a fully kitted Anaconda isn't a goal, there needs to be something else fun and meaningful to spend cash on. I'm glad running costs have come down since 1.0, but once profit scaling is better balanced across all professions and larger ships, this problem will become more obvious.
Last edited:
I like the idea that a credit sink is something optional to the player over something that feels enforced. Many of the suggestions listed already would fit into this category. That freedom to choose your own way fits the Elite mantra. Opting in could potentially give you further elements of gameplay to explore:
- Gambling in stations, betting on races
Could also give opportunity to run without paying debts, or being able to bet too much and get on the wrong side of some factions/groups/NPCs. Could get caught trying to fix the odds or even have the opposite happen to you with the looser running, having to catch him making a run for it!
- Ship Taxi Service for moving ships
Your in-transit ship could occasionally be stolen or hijacked, or double crossed by NPC, creating missions to retrieve. Could track ship and have to disable (or destroy & pay insurance) to get back or pay a bribe. Could pay more for a better pilot (lower risk).
- Bribary of officials
Could allow access through security for smuggling, access to different modules for a limited time, or even to source insider information in the system/station. This could lead to missions, coordinates to special events within the system, or other objectives including hints for good mining or trades in the area, or juicy target locations. Could also in some locations give access to private Bulletin Boards with unique or 'hardcore' missions to take. Or how about reserving a pad number at a station as a mini perk? VIP
- Gambling in stations, betting on races
Could also give opportunity to run without paying debts, or being able to bet too much and get on the wrong side of some factions/groups/NPCs. Could get caught trying to fix the odds or even have the opposite happen to you with the looser running, having to catch him making a run for it!
- Ship Taxi Service for moving ships
Your in-transit ship could occasionally be stolen or hijacked, or double crossed by NPC, creating missions to retrieve. Could track ship and have to disable (or destroy & pay insurance) to get back or pay a bribe. Could pay more for a better pilot (lower risk).
- Bribary of officials
Could allow access through security for smuggling, access to different modules for a limited time, or even to source insider information in the system/station. This could lead to missions, coordinates to special events within the system, or other objectives including hints for good mining or trades in the area, or juicy target locations. Could also in some locations give access to private Bulletin Boards with unique or 'hardcore' missions to take. Or how about reserving a pad number at a station as a mini perk? VIP
Very simple.
So you feel you are getting too rich, and have no challenge anymore?
Bear in mind this is a luxury problem for a minority of players (trade-grinders, mostly); at least as of yet.
I, for one, would much rather the developers worked on more important improvements and upgrades than finding money-sinks...
Solution to the luxury-problem:
Delete your save, start from scratch. Play the game on level with the rest of us. Problem solved.
So you feel you are getting too rich, and have no challenge anymore?
Bear in mind this is a luxury problem for a minority of players (trade-grinders, mostly); at least as of yet.
I, for one, would much rather the developers worked on more important improvements and upgrades than finding money-sinks...
Solution to the luxury-problem:
Delete your save, start from scratch. Play the game on level with the rest of us. Problem solved.
Right, fly a Hauler in a universe full of Anacondas. That should be challenging enough, right? BTW I was being sarcastic
IMO these changes should affect all players, otherwise they won't be effective at all.
Right, fly a Hauler in a universe full of Anacondas. That should be challenging enough, right? BTW I was being sarcastic
IMO these changes should affect all players, otherwise they won't be effective at all.
Oh no, Sir; I am happy where I am, and need no change at all to my current income; the credits are still hard enough earned and not coming in too fast.
I am sure a lot of other players also are in this situation. The majority, in fact.
Since when did changes happen to accommodate the few on the cost for the many..?
(...oh, wait...)
Last edited:
I recall DB saying a big fat NO to player owned anything. CMDR are supposed to be small drops in the vast ocean. Not affecting anything anyhow.