Insurance; that old Chestnut... (Idea to stop the whinging..)

[chesdj]

More just some musings on my part and it's probably been suggested elsewhere but there's that many threads search isn't pulling it back.

No be honest i feel no sympathy for "OMG i put my Anacaconda into an asteroid and lost everything because i failed to plan ahead...) players, i never fly a ship without at least 4x rebuy cost as you never know when you'll have a stupid moment out there.

But as a change to the current system where you pay after you've lost your ship:

When buying a new ship AND Modules for the first time Insurance is included in the cost when you buy, you have a major prang you get your ship back with all modules, but when getting it back you have the option to buy insurance to cover that replacement for the next time you prang it?

You can reject the option but then you're on your own if you prang you go back to the current setup where if you don't have the credits for rebuy you lose it forever as we have now.




You could even include an Insurance broker option in the contacts so you could re-insure later when you have the credits but until that point if you prang with no insurance you can rebuy but at say double or triple the cost of flying with pre-paid insurance. (Plus as i've suggested before flying without insurance becomes a crime if scanned so you also risk a fine.)

That would seem a more natural system to me? And highlight the risks of running without insurance to even the most oblivious.

In this way you could keep your ship, if you don't have the credits for further insurance, flog some of the Modules and buy an Eagle/sidewinder to grind the money whilst your ship is parked up safe.

(As i say apols if this has been suggested before, but at least this way Insurance is highlighted and they get 'one' initial chance' to recover their ship if they prang it on the way out of the dock the first time for example, after that they can only blame themselves.)

 

[elrogarddublanc]

Are we paying the insurance on the insurance screen, or just the excess?

Naturally, only pay the excess once there is a claim.

If we are arguing about the insurance premium, well then it should probably be quite a lot higher, considering some players chances of death.

Ooh, that's and interesting idea... The amount you have to pay increases due to your claim history?

 

[FuzzySpider]

The whinging is caused by the loss of a ship and whatever cargo it has, not by any flaw in how the insurance system is designed.

As long as there is any loss at all there will be whinging. And if there is no loss people will be flying their ships into the back of stations to make pretty explosions.

I think we're stuck with whinging.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

I think the major issue with changing insurance is that its been the way it is for such a long time that any changes would annoy as many people as it would please.

 

[Psycho Romeo]

This is an interesting solution, but I don't think it will stop the whinging. To stop the whinging, people are just gonna need to get over it. And punishing them will slowly make them get over it, so I'm all for continuing to punish them.

Let them whing. If they didn't whing about this, they'd whing about something else. The line has to be drawn somewhere. FDev is really bad about not being able to draw and stand behind that line without caving. Too many whingers.

 

[chesdj]

No excess payemnt the first time to get your ship back but instead you have to pay (The same as the current excess) to renew your insurance at the time of getting the replacement, if you refuse you pay extra for taking the added risk.
Essentially you fly without pre-paying your insurance/excess in advance you get hit hard for it later. (Essentially the same mechanic as we have now but in a way you can't complain you didn't have the credits to cover it.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

Further point: Increased cost per claim is terrible idea for demolition derby / races and so on.

 

[vizvayu]

More just some musings on my part and it's probably been suggested elsewhere but there's that many threads search isn't pulling it back.

No be honest i feel no sympathy for "OMG i put my Anacaconda into an asteroid and lost everything because i failed to plan ahead...) players, i never fly a ship without at least 4x rebuy cost as you never know when you'll have a stupid moment out there.

But as a change to the current system where you pay after you've lost your ship:

When buying a new ship AND Modules for the first time Insurance is included in the cost when you buy, you have a major prang you get your ship back with all modules, but when getting it back you have the option to buy insurance to cover that replacement for the next time you prang it?

No, it's not included in the price of the ship or modules you buy. The insurance is free. You can clearly see that in the Status->Finance screen in your ship, where it says "SHIP INSURANCE 95%", meaning the insurance covers 95% of the cost of the ship. And when you claim it, they give you 95% of the total you paid. They wouldn't refund you their own profits (the insurance cost), so the insurance is free and for life thanks to the insurance fairy.
What we need is an optional insurance, well thought and that makes sense.

- - - Updated - - -

Further point: Increased cost per claim is terrible idea for demolition derby / races and so on.

Not if you make insurance optional

 

[NullAndVoid]

Doesn't matter what system is put in place, as long as there is a cost there will always be stupid/impatient/greedy people risking it all and then whining on forums when it all goes wrong.

 

[ste]

Whats wrong with the way it is? Thats its not 100% idiot proof?

In this game there is only one way things can go wrong, and it couldnt be any simpler to avoid. Yet that is still too much to ask. Its pretty pathetic. I'd be too embarrassed to complain that I lost the lot, yet there are a lot of people who seem to have no shame.

 

[Stodgy]

I think the issue with the insurance system as it is and why there are so many complainers is becauce of the massive increase in loss if you don't have the credits to rebuy.

Got plenty of credits and die, no problem have a shiny new ship. Death only cost the rich a few credits.
Don't have the credits and die, you loose everything. Sorry but it's your fault for being poor.

It isn't a bad system and fits with the cold uncaring corporate vibe of the game. But it really sucks when you are punished just for being poor, maybe it's a bit too much like RL in that regard for some peoples liking.

I would change it so that you have a choice of:
A) Pay 5% of the ships value to rebuy the ship (same as now).
OR
B) You get a Sidewinder plus 90% of you old ships value in credits minus the cost of the sidewinder.

 

[Anthony Jones]

if you do not have the rebut a pop up when you press launch that says are you sure you want to lunch without insurance. Any loss is at your own risk

Or something like that

 

[ste]

if you do not have the rebut a pop up when you press launch that says are you sure you want to lunch without insurance. Any loss is at your own risk

Or something like that

Everybody knows, they just choose to ignore it, and in their hunt for something to blame would rather blame the system rather than their own stupidity as that less embarrassing. I remember one a month ago complaining about the system and no warnings then let it slip he did know he had to save up for insurance after all but decided against it anyway.

Except a very tiny minuscule % everybody knows they need insurance or pay the consequences. Its so simple anybody who says they didnt understand is lying to cover it up, and the reason they ignore it is so they can grind faster. And when it bites them on the ass - destination forums to blame someone.

 

[elrogarddublanc]

Whats wrong with the way it is? Thats its not 100% idiot proof?

In this game there is only one way things can go wrong, and it couldnt be any simpler to avoid. Yet that is still too much to ask. Its pretty pathetic. I'd be too embarrassed to complain that I lost the lot, yet there are a lot of people who seem to have no shame.

Yeah, I agree. Its fine. With finite dev time, I would prefer they focus on actual issues rather than enhancements or changes that are pretty dramatic, and not really limiting at the moment.

 

[ste]

Yeah, I agree. Its fine. With finite dev time, I would prefer they focus on actual issues rather than enhancements or changes that are pretty dramatic, and not really limiting at the moment.

I wouldnt mind if they change it, if they can think of a better system, and by better I dont mean to lessen the consequences of blowing up which is basically all theses players are crying for.

They dont want to die, and when they do they want it not to matter. Which is basically the fundamental gist of the majority of whine threads on this forum.

 

[Silh]

They dont want to die, and when they do they want it not to matter. Which is basically the fundamental gist of the majority of whine threads on this forum.

Ultimately, it often comes down to that. Far be it for a game to actually have lasting consequences for once, that are not recoverable by reloading a save...

About the only 'compromise' suggestion that comes to mind, which would reduce some of the sting of going from everything to nothing, a variation of which was posted by Stodgy above, is that if your insurance payout is not enough for replacement of the ship you crashed, you would get some portion/percentage of that in the form of credits, so you wouldn't be forced to start completely from scratch in a Sidewinder, but would have some capital at least to pick up perhaps somewhere in the middle. Exactly what percentage is another matter for debate.

I'm sure this still wouldn't eliminate the complaints about losing everything, of course.

 

[th03bgt]

An alternative...

A daily charge is taken from your bank balance. This is then deducted from the 5% excess, reducing the amount for good flying.

Example.

You are flying a multi role asp with a rebuy cost of 1,895,393. Over 365 days, that would mean a daily deduction of 5193 Cr. You bin the ship into the side of the station after 3 months careful flying. Your rebuy is now 1,895,393 - (90*5193) = 1,428,023.

If you have multiple ships, your daily charge would include all stored ships.

Or... At the time of buying your ship, your are given the option of buying 'Gap Insurance' to cover the rebuy. This is up front and valued at 4%. Thus saving you a little Cr.

Finally, you are given the option of not buying 'Gap Insurance' or spreading the re-buy over the year but taking the risk of running out of credit when you do bin the ship.

That way, there can be no moaning. You have been warned and given options.