If you're going call a ship an explorer, the 2nd most important component after an FSD is a fast Fuel Scoop. The Diamondback has the only sub-class Fuel Scoop in the game. Which means that it has to scoop twice as long as any other ship for the same jump range. This scooping time adds up quick. That's an extra ~5 hours of scooping on a trip to Sgr A*. That is assuming a DB could even make it on a long voyage with its limited repair capabilities.
So will we ever get a new Explorer ship... or is it ASP forever...?!
- Thread starter Jaden
- Start date
I like the idea of dedicated ships - but they shouldn't be easy to get. Should have to work for it - keep them behind rankings and make them expensive. I really wish the vulture had been done like that. And I hope that if and when they drop a dedicated explorer craft its not just the next step after your cobra.... On a side note - I loved my T6 explorer it did great until i finally got the Asp outfitted.
Seems like the new ships a bit caught between roles and ship class and people are wanting a bit more of everything.
For me, any ship that could jump 50ly should be all FSD and very little else.
2 small hardpoints, light shielding, room for a scoop, and max 4 ton cargo.
That would be a 'courier', and without the scanners, the explorers would be disappointed.
That should be the model, any ship that is the best at something should be severely compromised at everything else.
For me, any ship that could jump 50ly should be all FSD and very little else.
2 small hardpoints, light shielding, room for a scoop, and max 4 ton cargo.
That would be a 'courier', and without the scanners, the explorers would be disappointed.
That should be the model, any ship that is the best at something should be severely compromised at everything else.
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Reluctantly, after the pricing changes, and a really traumatic interdiction encounter at HIP 74290, I cashed out Alison the Asp. I know that combat is going to be an unavoidable event in any ship. We are now seeing the results of combat taking priority in the game. A "pure" exploration ship should only be used in the areas away from inhabited space. Any ship from the Cobra down can do the job of "ordinary" exploration, at a much reduced cost. The Great Explorers, with their 30+ light-year jumps, deserve their accolades. They just *die* in inhabited space, at a much higher cost.
So, a dedicated exploration ship with a 40+ light-year jump should be hideously expensive, and have armor, weapons, and shields to survive making it's data dump. 1 billion credits, please.
So, a dedicated exploration ship with a 40+ light-year jump should be hideously expensive, and have armor, weapons, and shields to survive making it's data dump. 1 billion credits, please.
That is exactly the ship I want to buy. Something that excels at delivering messages and light cargo across civilized space at high speed.
Don't need strong shields, don't need strong guns. Couriers are not combatants.
It is perplexing how so many people here have a wildly different definition of the word "courier" than the one found in any dictionary.
If it helps, I've only ever done one exploration journey in an Asp, and that was with friends and before Wings, over the course of two full days.
All the other times I've been in a Cobra. Including *that* time. Although given the fighting capabilities of the Diamondback, I am seriously considering changing over to that one...
I'm over 45k Ly out, and am at 87% for the weakest module. I'd also like to point out that ALL of that damage was my stupid. MEssing with black holes, neutrons, and not to mention somehow managing to perfectly line up a water worlds from about 20000Ls out, walking away and grabbing a drink, and coming back to having emergency stopped. I wish I had recorded that one. I've never been able to line up anything like that before, or since.
Also, I have no heat sinks. I do wish I had those...
But forward and onward.
Z...
It is a shame the DBk has such a limited jump range - A jack of all trades is a master of none - surely the simple way around this is give it with the right spec and mods a good range, eqv. the Asp, of 35-40ly+. But severely limit the modules it can run making the upgrade to the Asp (with it's versatility) a worth while option - but still an option.
For example -
An ideal dedicated Explorer should be a 'Glass Cannon', could fit a huge powerplant and FSD with 40-45ly (or more) range but almost nothing else. Make the biggest jumps massively expensive in fuel (maybe with a tiny fueltank. i.e. Refuel after 1-2 (?) jumps) and risk. Would also off-set gamer tendancy to Min/Max (irritating habit - the answer should always be, 'Depends', rather than what is the 'Best') as ship could be great at one thing only but with equal big down sides. The player then has the choice: Jump Big to get to those hard to reach places BUT at a cost/risk that is manageable and scalable, or chose to be economical with the same Ship Loadout and be able to jump at 20-25ly ranges many times (300ly) before refuel.
Or with a different load out go for multiple moderate jumps (17-20ly) that is more economical and have a more rounded safer ship? Eqv. The Cobra.
Or a different one with excellent guns and shields but rubbish jump range (8-10ly) due to power management and slots? But not as good as the Vulture (Whatever)
We could then be making serious choices about out ships.
At the moment, with a few exceptions, the mantra (as always in MMOs) is race to the biggest (best?) and max out with A grade mods (Which aren't always the best btw - weight/cost) and voila; 'you da nuts pew pew'.
As a game with ambitions for intelligent emergent game play surely players need that granularity to achieve proper meaningful depth.
Two 'Meh' ships added to the shipyard is style, but isn't (longterm) content IMHO.
o7
GBD
There is a concept in gaming known on TV Tropes as Complacent Gaming Syndrome, where eventually all the best players end up playing the same way, with the same strategies, same equipment, and same plan - because it's "optimal." The problem with this is the same as the problem with a dominant species subjected to altered selection pressures: one exploitation of a weakness and the whole thing topples down because nobody can cope with it. Plus, it's boring.
It then follows that everybody expects something new with no weaknesses whatsoever, or something that is bigger, faster, stronger, better. A new standard of optimisation, a new level to aspire towards. The risk is that it then leaves the older ways in the dust. This is called Powercreep. Perhaps the reason the Diamondback is receiving the criticism it has is, because we are all so used to seeing the Asp and Anaconda dominating the exploration game, it isn't powercreepy enough? For another more serious example, ask yourself why there are hardly any Eagles and Vipers being flown by advanced players.
The key to combating both of these phenomena is to provide variety at all levels, and a reason to embrace variety. Personally, I prefer flying a Cobra over an Asp because a Cobra can run rings around an Asp, and it is easier to control, plus it's so much prettier. Plus, for what I am doing I don't need an Asp just now: I own one, for sure, but when the time comes to require that one be used, such as mining or going out beyond the most distant spiral arms, then I'll use it. However, these are still such limited options right now in the exploration game - trading has the Lakon and Faulcon DeLacey options and the Clipper, combat has Vultures, Fer de Lances, and all sorts of other options - and with limited scope for providing reasons to use other options.
I had wondered if the Diamondback was the start of a measure to introduce such variety in roles in the exploration game at first at the Cobra level - a Cobra with better jump range and better fighting capabilities but less scope for self maintenance and survivability, indeed a form of the very "glass cannon" described above - while in the background providing a reason to use them (Them Aliens). Still, it's only day 3 of the beta for an update to a continually improving game, and we still have another half dozen or so other ships to come as promised further down the line. We may just have to wait and see what these tomorrows bring.
It then follows that everybody expects something new with no weaknesses whatsoever, or something that is bigger, faster, stronger, better. A new standard of optimisation, a new level to aspire towards. The risk is that it then leaves the older ways in the dust. This is called Powercreep. Perhaps the reason the Diamondback is receiving the criticism it has is, because we are all so used to seeing the Asp and Anaconda dominating the exploration game, it isn't powercreepy enough? For another more serious example, ask yourself why there are hardly any Eagles and Vipers being flown by advanced players.
The key to combating both of these phenomena is to provide variety at all levels, and a reason to embrace variety. Personally, I prefer flying a Cobra over an Asp because a Cobra can run rings around an Asp, and it is easier to control, plus it's so much prettier. Plus, for what I am doing I don't need an Asp just now: I own one, for sure, but when the time comes to require that one be used, such as mining or going out beyond the most distant spiral arms, then I'll use it. However, these are still such limited options right now in the exploration game - trading has the Lakon and Faulcon DeLacey options and the Clipper, combat has Vultures, Fer de Lances, and all sorts of other options - and with limited scope for providing reasons to use other options.
I had wondered if the Diamondback was the start of a measure to introduce such variety in roles in the exploration game at first at the Cobra level - a Cobra with better jump range and better fighting capabilities but less scope for self maintenance and survivability, indeed a form of the very "glass cannon" described above - while in the background providing a reason to use them (Them Aliens). Still, it's only day 3 of the beta for an update to a continually improving game, and we still have another half dozen or so other ships to come as promised further down the line. We may just have to wait and see what these tomorrows bring.
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Interesting first paragraph
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While I've given in to using masses of shield cells on my python like other players, my weapons choice is far from normal
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I try to make things different so I've fitted 3 class 3 PAs and two turreted Meidiem beams to take out smaller ships
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I only ever see lasers on pythons so I like to think I'm playing a bit different,
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I even tried various stealth ships, but even with full armour and hull reinforcement they suck badly, 1 rams from a cobra nearly killed me
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I don't entirely think players tend to gravitate towards the same things because they are the best thing they can do, I actually think the lack of avaliable tech makes people choose the one choice that is there, because there arnt any others, I personally would have added weapon boosters, emp weapons to disable modules amoung many other things to give people a choice of good technology
Elite desperately needs more variety in everything. I know that we will slowly get there as everything needs to be thought out well but man the waiting is painful.
The modules are prime example of this, weapons also. They differentiate in class and type now, weapons also in another stat. But there could and should be another thing to them, the built specifications. When you have more than one company doing the same thing, they compete... either in efficiency, built quality, power or any other comparable stat. There is a huge space for components manufactured by different companies.
I hope we will get into a point where I can for example choose not only if I want Class 4 shield of A-E quality/type ... I want to also choose from whom it was build because they are either cheaper, or sturdier, or more efficient, or last longer, or have some special ability... etc. etc. So then when you will compare two class 4 A types of shields from different manufactures, they will not be the same.
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You are correct in that it is the lack of choice that drives people to have the same loadout. Weapon boosters would be a good alternative, having just one booster per weapon would allow on a four weapon ship greater variety. The EMP and other diabling weapons are needed, as are other types of module that could disrupt shields, more mine and missile variety. Also perhaps an overclock for the FSD that has a limited number of uses to allow for greater jump range when it is needed.