Longevity challenge for devs!

[Hangar18]

Quick intro as I'm new to the forum but certainly not elite, Frontier and FFE, have consumed a significant portion of my last life getting lost in space chasing elite status and/or Brigadier/prince rankings for the Feds/ emperials!

So glad that elite 4 is now within touching distance! Just one point is like to make is I around a fear I have. I remember one of the biggest enjoyment killers was around the exponentially increasing way in which you could make money, particularly in frontier/FFE. As you levelled up in ships it became easier and easier to make money simply by doing trading missions. By the time I got the panther clipper, a couple of very profitable runs netted a million credits a pop, only problem was there was nothing to spend it on!

Sure it was a hard graft from the eagle mk2, but I just found the exponential ease with which you could make money became a bit of a killer in terms of enjoyment. So what to do as a dev? Two ideas spring to mind...

1. After buying the biggest baddest ship in the game there are other things the player can buy or build like space stations in outer worlds. However, not sure this empire building facet, akin to x2 or x3 is really my cup of tea

2. Somehow increase the cost of maintaining large shops so that although you can make proportionally more profit with the bigger ships, it's not exponentially so.

Interested to hear others thoughts on this.

 

[-o-]

I know what you mean.

After a certain point, interest in the game is lost because there is no challenge. Once you have mastered everything that any game has thrown at you, is there really any value in continuing?

Unlike the previous games, E4 is a live game who's content can be modified. Throw in the 2 expansions over a few years, along with other injected content, then mix in a pinch of MP and that should increase longevity.

I think the sleeper here though may be the lack of time compression. That should make accumulating credits much slower in real time when compared to ED's parents.

 

[Yaffle]

Unlike the previous games, E4 is a live game who's content can be modified. Throw in the 2 expansions over a few years, along with other injected content, then mix in a pinch of MP and that should increase longevity.

As the "leave the cockpit and walk around" expansion should be one of the first, that opens up whole new worlds (and space stations) instantly.

 

[Hangar18]

Yes, appreciate the opening up of the game will definitely sustain interest providing of course, there's something "valuable" to find in the exploration part, like ancient (but powerful weapons) or rare equipment like cloaking devices. Kind of hoping this game will evolve into an old game called Sundog, where you could wander around planets, talk to characters and explore things. Man I loved that game. Elite and Sundog were 2 of the best ever space sims.

 

[Fromhell]

1. After buying the biggest baddest ship in the game there are other things the player can buy or build like space stations in outer worlds. However, not sure this empire building facet, akin to x2 or x3 is really my cup of tea

LOL.. better duck and cover, OP!

Everyone who requests stuff which slightly expands Frontier 1993 version or suggests owning territory or space stations or building anything gets bashed into space here.

IT SHALL NOT HAVE ANYTHING PLAYER CONFLICT DRIVEN
The online universe is clearly too small for such endeavours!


and btw, OMZRG EvE 2!!!

 

[Darren Grey]

I think with the multiplayer element especially there will need to be very careful economic balancing. I'm sure with ongoing tweaks etc we won't see the same problems as the original though.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

1. After buying the biggest baddest ship in the game there are other things the player can buy or build like space stations in outer worlds. However, not sure this empire building facet, akin to x2 or x3 is really my cup of tea

I am fairly confident you will be able to invest in the helping to build space stations and the like, but not own them. (Least ways not in the initial release)

 

[huwthomas]

Even if you can invest in productive assets (which I assume a station would be), it doesn't actually solve the "exponentially increasing income" problem, it makes it worse!

That suggests that game longevity needs to come from somewhere other than accumulating wealth.

 

[Patrick_68000]

I hope that civilization of Thargoîd and other extra human civilization will be in the future, very detailed in the game with their spaceships, their space stations, their stores, and we can have social links with certain civilizations

 

[Memnoch]

That would be brilliant. I also hope that limited skirmishes would break out at the borders, giving players the choice of taking sides and gaining some military or mercenary rank/influence, perhaps opening doors down the road for further collaboration...

 

[rgb_astro]

I hope that civilization of Thargoîd and other extra human civilization will be in the future, very detailed in the game with their spaceships, their space stations, their stores, and we can have social links with certain civilizations

I hope the first thing Thargoids will do is search and destroy those "loaded" kids in their most expensive yachts. Karma is watching you.

 

[Warbrand]

I think the new Damage concept will allow You to spend Your monney in accurate ammount s to stop Your hull from leaking and Your Scanners from sparkling.

As I read there will be exotic accessoires availlable that are not the standard weapons, scanners, etc. and this stuff will cost a lot to be repaired! So I do NOT worry, to have to much money .... else i have to buy a secondary ship, maybe for different missions.... there will be a lot of possibilities!

 

[-o-]

I hope that civilization of Thargoîd and other extra human civilization will be in the future, very detailed in the game with their spaceships, their space stations, their stores, and we can have social links with certain civilizations

Guess we are unable to start a game as another species like the Thargoids. Would have added an entirely new perspective to the game with relatively minimal dev effort (unique & surreal cockpits).

Perhaps a spy/rescue mission where we steal & pilot one or more of their ships fits in better.

 

[Mephane]

Guess we are unable to start a game as another species like the Thargoids. Would have added an entirely new perspective to the game with relatively minimal dev effort (unique & surreal cockpits).

I think you underestimate the necessary effort if you want those ships ro feel both alien and satisfying and on top of that neither over- nor underpowered at the same time.

 

[Asp Explorer]

I think the new Damage concept will allow You to spend Your monney in accurate ammount s to stop Your hull from leaking and Your Scanners from sparkling.

As I read there will be exotic accessoires availlable that are not the standard weapons, scanners, etc. and this stuff will cost a lot to be repaired! So I do NOT worry, to have to much money .... else i have to buy a secondary ship, maybe for different missions.... there will be a lot of possibilities!

I really, really, really hope there are NO instant-heal band-aids available in store for real cash.

You take an opponent down to 20% hull integrity, and he simply buys a repair-kit on mummy's credit card, instantly bringing him back up to 100%.

No thanks!

 

[Asp Explorer]

I think you underestimate the necessary effort if you want those ships ro feel both alien and satisfying and on top of that neither over- nor underpowered at the same time.

I think it would be interesting to play as a Thargoid at some point

With the demonstrated skill of the art and sound devs, it would be possible to make it look and sound completely alien. Invent a language / number base / glyph system and you are halfway there

It would be simple enough to employ a unusual control concept to make it "feel" strange to control - (forced) inverted and reversed controls perhaps?

Anyone who has ridden a bicycle with a handlebar inverter will know how outright weird that feels!

Maybe a vision system that depends on some alien quality, like those old 50's bug movies with the clustered lens effect stuff. Loads of possibilities!

 

[DYSEQTA]

It would be pretty cool if you could get to the point where you have enough money to effectively fiance your own faction. By that I mean:

• Find a spot in the universe you like
• Hire an NPC construction team
• Hire an NPC defense force
• Build a station
• Decide whether to be a constructive member of the galaxy or a destructive member
• Build up defense force into a general fighting force
• If constructive then assign fighting force to defend friendly or neutral craft visiting your area
• If destructive have fighting force harass nearby systems
• Either way collect percentage of profits from trade or looting
• Manage upkeep cost of fighting force and station
• If successful repeat in another system

I'm sure you could expand that idea much further but the basic idea is to allow a player to have a persistent effect on a portion of the massive area that is Elite's space (even when offline) without allowing them to grief others through player driven blob warfare etc. With the players interaction being limited to very high level command it leaves the rest in the hands of Frontier's AI.

Players can have a mark on the universe in exchange for a large money sink managing a small faction. Very successful players in this regard could even end up integrating into the lore. I could see a system like this making for an expansion all on its own.

Anyway just throwing ideas out

 

[Asp Explorer]

It would be pretty cool if you could get to the point where you have enough money to effectively fiance your own faction. By that I mean:

• Find a spot in the universe you like
• Hire an NPC construction team
• Hire an NPC defense force
• Build a station
• Decide whether to be a constructive member of the galaxy or a destructive member
• Build up defense force into a general fighting force
• If constructive then assign fighting force to defend friendly or neutral craft visiting your area
• If destructive have fighting force harass nearby systems
• Either way collect percentage of profits from trade or looting
• Manage upkeep cost of fighting force and station
• If successful repeat in another system

I'm sure you could expand that idea much further but the basic idea is to allow a player to have a persistent effect on a portion of the massive area that is Elite's space (even when offline) without allowing them to grief others through player driven blob warfare etc. With the players interaction being limited to very high level command it leaves the rest in the hands of Frontier's AI.

Players can have a mark on the universe in exchange for a large money sink managing a small faction. Very successful players in this regard could even end up integrating into the lore. I could see a system like this making for an expansion all on its own.

Anyway just throwing ideas out

Nice ideas, but how would you go about implementing them from a cockpit?

How would you collect profits from NPC's? What if another PC buys out your NPC's, sells your builders substandard material and skims you?

Mmmm - a space station made out of purest Sol-roasted Slave Dung bricks. I can't wait!

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

I am fairly confident you will be able to invest in the helping to build space stations and the like, but not own them. (Least ways not in the initial release)

I think this is where the longevity goals in Elite will stem from. Helping to push the boundaries of human colonization further and further out.


It could go something like this...

• Explorers map new hyperspace routes beyond the Frontier systems.
• They bring back data and sell it to NPC prospecting corps or other players.

• NPC corporations hire players to travel to these distant suns to survey them.
• They bring back data on what resources are available and whether any worlds are suitable for colonization or terraforming.

• Corporations then begin hiring freighter pilots and escorts to begin shipping out heavy equipment and machinery for spacestation construction.
• Players can invest in these ventures either financially, logistically, or by acting as security while orbital structures are being built.

• Once the spacestation, fuel depots and factories are online, prospectors will begin flocking to the new systems. Fledgling colonies will spring up. And with it trade routes are born - which in turn brings piracy and bounty hunter presence.

• The 'bubble' that humans now inhabit is pushed a little further out into the galaxy and the whole process begins again with explorers now capable of exploring a little further afield due to the presence of the newly built spacestations and repair facilities.

The biggest asset the Elite gameworld has its its size so I think its only natural that's what will be the prime driving force behind its longevity. Its sheer size brings into play all playstyles and professions working together in some roundabout way. They can be linked like above, with one playstyle event (an explorer out doing his/her thing) opening up gameplay to others through a chain of events, and so on...

 

[DYSEQTA]

Nice ideas, but how would you go about implementing them from a cockpit?

How would you collect profits from NPC's?

Well as I mentioned I think something like this could fill a major expansion if expanded upon (no pun intended). That would mean it could be done once we are able to walk about on stations.

As for collecting profits? Well that could quite simply be a matter of having a weekly percentage of the stations profits deposited into your account. Just part of the economic simulation. If the simulation was detailed enough you could even make mistakes and find yourself in a situation where your station/fighting force costs outweigh your profit and you end up bankrupting yourself which would force you to working your way back up.

I guess what I'm suggesting is an expansion that adds on a player interactive economic system in the theme of what can be found in say X3.

This way you could hire NPC traders to bring in goods to your station that you think are in demand in your region of space in the hopes of selling at a profit. Misjudge the demand and you shoot yourself in the foot and so forth.

The beauty is that it could be implemented in such a way as to be entirely option but would really give those who want to focus on economics rather than combat some meat to go with the already provided potatoes, if you get my drift.